Hello, Thank You, and HELLLLLLLLP!

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Popeye

Popeye

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I first wanted to say "hello" and thank you all for the advice and support I've seen you all give one another. With all of the problems in the world, it's nice to see a disparate group of folks hang together and support each other. Good on ya!

We have tamed (mostly), captured, neutered, and moved into our home the last feral cat of the neighborhood. Since his pattern allowed him to pretty much disappear right before our eyes when he was outside, we named him after Popeye's pet, Eugene the Jeep. If you're younger than 60, ask a friend.

Eugene is diabetic and we are using ProZinc. We began at 1 unit and increased every few days until we got to 4 units every 12 hours. At that point, glucose fell to 58 and his morning check, so we dropped back to 3.5. His level then shot up to 450. We finally settled on 3.75 and got an evening and morning reading both around 180. Olive and I were ecstatic! Next reading, however, was back to the 450 range. Same food, same amount, times are almost exactly 12 hours apart and consistent day to day. He's inside always and gets no other food during the day or night. All tests are before feeding.

Any ideas on these wild fluctuations?
 
Hello! How much did you increase each time and exactly how many days were between the 1 unit to 4 units? It seems likely that this is way too much for him and he's bouncing all over the place. We say to increase by no more than .25 units every 3 days (someone correct me if that's wrong) because sometimes their sweet spot of how much insulin they need is between whole units. Hope that all makes sense so far. Also, we really need to see where he's going throughout the day- are you able to do a curve and also do periodic tests during the day? This is key in figuring out if he needs more or less. Last but not least, I'd suggest setting up your spreadsheet so we can all see the data and help figure it out. I'm sure more people will reply soon and I hope that all helps a bit!
 
Hi, and welcome! Would you like us to call you Popeye? I'm younger than 60 (by a little), but I remember who Eugene is!

Caitlin is right, what you are describing sounds like a pretty classic case of overdosing, but it's hard to know for sure without a bit more information. Caitlin suggested getting a spreadsheet set up, and that would be the most helpful place to start. Here is a link to the spreadsheet we all use here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

There are directions there for getting started, but if you need any help, please just ask. We have some tech experts who can help you get it set up.

If you'd like to see examples, you can click on the spreadsheets in our signatures (the light grey or blue text at the bottom of our posts). That's how we organize our test data so that we can find patterns and figure out if there is too much of too little insulin.

Also, could you tell us what you're feeding Eugene right now?

PS I love hearing about other ferals who have been successfully adopted! It's a challenge for sure, but I love my little wild cat!
 
The Vet told us to go 1 unit every 12 hours for two days, then go to 2 units for two days, then 3 units for two days, etc. After 3 cycles of 4 units we saw the big drop.

After I posted, I saw a sample curve here, and immediately felt better. Tomorrow we'll do testing every couple of hours and see what turns up. I was not taking into account that the last dose would be gone by the next testing time and was thinking the glucose would be more stable. Now that I see the curve, it makes sense.
 
So what is happening is called a bounce. I am sure that dose is too high. Are you using a human meter or pet meter?

So what's happening is the bg is going too low, his body is panicking and releasing stored glucose to keep from hypoglycemic, resulting in a super high reading. You need to lower that dose. Definitely get a curve done when you can.


What are you feeding?
 
As others have said, I think you're seeing overdosing and bouncing! But that curve you're doing tomorrow will help for sure. A lot of vets suggest these kinds of doses, but we usually don't increase by any more than 0.5 units at a time...cats are so small they need way less insulin than humans and it's easy to skip right over the correct dose!

Tomorrow, if you want to post your data, we'd love to look at it and help you figure out what's going on! And THANK YOU for taking in the ferals in the neighborhood...I'm glad to see them getting a good loving home!
 
JanetNJ said:
So what is happening is called a bounce. I am sure that dose is too high. Are you using a human meter or pet meter?

So what's happening is the bg is going too low, his body is panicking and releasing stored glucose to keep from hypoglycemic, resulting in a super high reading. You need to lower that dose. Definitely get a curve done when you can.


What are you feeding?
Click to expand...
Yup, I came to the right place! You all rock!

He's eating canned Friskies, 10 ounces per day. And we're using a ReliOn Confirm human meter. We'll get a curve done tomorrow and go from there.

Thank you all!
 
Popeye said:
Yup, I came to the right place! You all rock!

He's eating canned Friskies, 10 ounces per day. And we're using a ReliOn Confirm human meter. We'll get a curve done tomorrow and go from there.

Thank you all!
Click to expand...
Great. Pate style only, right? No gravy?
 
Welcome Popeye and Eugene!
I grew up watching Popeye and I am not close to 60 even though I feel like it sometimes :p. Anyways, sounds like you have a Vet that likes to increase in terms of whole units as many seem to do. This works well for bigger creatures like people but not so great for little kitties (even a 25lb maine coon). We usually recommend increases in tiny increments of 0.25U or 0.5U. I agree with the others that his dose is probably too high and he's bouncing. If you should need help setting up a Spreadsheet (SS) like each of us has, just ask for assistance like Djamila said ;).

Also setting up your Signature with a little information about Eugene will be helpful as you continue to post: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/
 
Ok, I was able to run a pretty good curve over a day. I have not yet created a Google account, so can't post a spreadsheet yet, but did plot it on a small chart. Bottom line is that at the 12:30 pm check, Eugene the Jeep's glucose had dropped to 42 and by 5:30 pm it had bounced up to 475. I've since dropped his dose to 3 units and will do another curve in a couple of days. The 5:30 pm check today came up to 350, so that's much better after just one day, but we'll have to see what the nadir looks like as well.

Again, thank you all for your help, suggestions, and just basic information and explanations.
 
Good job decreasing since he hit 42. The higher numbers are a result of him doing what we call "bouncing". Tends to happen when nadir BG is more than a 50% drop from PS. It can take 3-6 cycles to clear a bounce so waiting at least 3 days to get more tests is not a bad plan. You can also randomly grab mid cycles instead of curves every few days.
If you look at mine, look before august when I wasn't working. :)
 
@Yong could you clarify this? It sounds like you're suggesting not testing for the next three days?

@Popeye, I would recommend that you drop the dose a bit more. I'd really recommend going to one unit until you can get a spreadsheet set up and we can get a better sense of what's going on. 42 is below the hypo range, and that can get dangerous fast. We really want to help keep Eugene safe, at the same time we work to get him into healthy BG ranges. If you aren't comfortable going back to one unit, then you could try 2, but I do worry that he's having such sharp dramatic responses to the insulin.

We have folks who can help set up the spreadsheet for you, so please just ask if you need any help with that.
 
I think Yong was saying there's no need for a curve until the bounce clears. AM and PM testing and nadirs when you can get them are still important during this time, Popeye.
 
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