Hello...New and need some help

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lunarpixy

Member Since 2013
Hey there, I'm new to the board and hope you guys can give me some advice!

Right now my kitty is at the vet's office, where he's been since last Wednesday. We had taken him to start insulin, and were told he'd need to stay a couple of days so they could get his dose regulated. As of Friday evening, we were told that he had a UTI but we could pick him up Monday morning. That's when everything went downhill! When my boyfriend went to pick him up Monday, he was told that Duke wasn't doing well and that his sugar was high and that he'd thrown up that morning and to call back that afternoon to check on him. When he called back, he said that the vet told him pretty much the same thing, also that he was not eating on his own and that he appeared very weak and ill. Brad also said he got the feeling that the vet was hinting around that we should possibly have him euthanized but wouldn't come right out and say it. I called back today and got pretty much the same speech myself. She told me that his numbers were around 500 this morning, 132 after his shot, and 380 later that afternoon. She also told me that they only do one shot of insulin a day for cats. She said that between diabetes and the UTI, she just didn't think he was going to make it this time. She urged me to come in and see him, and that once I did, that it would be easy to make a decision.

A little background information...We've been dealing with FLUTD for over a year, and the diabetes for about 6 months I think (I can't say for sure, I'm not thinking very clearly right now). He's had a few blockages, and we had been treating the diabetes with glipizide. I had done a bit of reading here and a couple of other places and started him on a wet food diet (which he hated) and he seemed to be doing fairly well until around the holidays, when he had another blockage. Ended up at the ER on New Year's weekend and spent a LOOOOOOT of money that I really don't have, then spent a few days at his regular vet. At that point he was a bit better, I brought up the subject of insulin and was told to try the glipizide for a bit longer. Ok. So I started spot checking his bg with a meter, and saw his numbers creeping up. When they got up to 600, we called and told them something had to be done. And here we are. I really don't know what to do. I know we need to find a new vet, but between the ER visit and the week long hospital stay, I have maxed out my Care Credit card and cannot afford to start over. I cannot stand the thought of losing my baby, can someone please give me some ideas?

Thanks!
 
I have no advise to give since i am not an expert. I can say you are in the righ place and that no all vets are equal or know enough about FD. I can say your cat has a better chance of eating when home and not so stressed. I do not know anything about the insulin you are giving but will send a PM to see if any experts can come and advise you. hang in there, i know how you feel, just know FD is not a death sentence and there is help out there. think positive and know your not alone.
there are a lot of people on here and eyes will find you.
 
Hi, RubenTheCat, thank you for your kind words. I really am at my wit's end! I also thought that maybe he might be stressed out from being away from home, but the vet seems to think I should let him go! I told her I would not consider doing anything permanent until I was sure there was no chance, so I'll be going to see him tomorrow. In the meantime I'm having a nervous breakdown! But again, thanks, being here makes me feel a a little better and more hopeful.
 
Welcome to FDMB and hopefully we can give you some info that might help.

Diabetes is very treatable in cats but not with glipizide. Glipizide can cause nausea and inappetance and can also lead to the progression of pancreatic destruction due to increasing the secretion of other proteins in the pancreas. Is the vet who has your kitty giving insulin AND glipizide? I hope not.

What insulin is she giving? I would ask the vet if your cat has any ketones or has diabetic ketoacidosis. If he doesn't, I would have a strong conversation with your vet about what he does have and why he can't be treated at home. If she just says unregulated diabetes, I would ask for a prescription for lantus (glargine) and treat him at home....we will help you.

If its also the FLUTD, that could be a concern because you absolutely cannot allow him to get blocked. But I would push to see what you can do at home for him. There is a good yahoo group on FLUTD that you could ask for help.
 
What a stressful situation. The high numbers followed by low then by high can certainly be the one shot a day. Cats need 2 shots every 12 hours, unlike dogs. If they get only one shot, they are low for the day, then high for the rest of the time, when the insulin is gone. Glip is not a good choice; insulin is safer and works better.

It sounds like you might thinking you should go pick him up. If he were mine, I think I would. the only reason I wouldn't would be if the vet said he was in DKA. But even then, I think I'd get him to an ER. Get the insulin. Tell us your city and state. Maybe we will have a member who can recommend a FD knowledgable vet. Get him eating - we have lots of ideas how to do that. Start testing at home (we can teach you how) so you know what the insulin is doing when given correctly.

I know we are strangers on the Internet, but we do have a protocol that works and we do know diabetic cats. A large percentage of the member's cats here are regulated and sometimes in remission. We'd love to help you and your kitty.
 
Hi Marje and Gracie, thanks for the welcome and the reply!

As far as I know, they are not giving him the glipizide at this point. She did not tell me which insulin they are using, only that they gave him a long acting dose this morning, and I believe she said they gave him another dose of a shorter acting insulin this afternoon. Nor did she mention anything about ketones or ketoacidosis. He is urinating on his own and drinking a bit, she said. She just kept saying that he was very ill from battling the UTI and the diabetes and that I needed to make a decision. I asked her if they would syringe feed him until I could get there tomorrow and she agreed. I really couldn't get much more out of her than that. :(
 
Okay lets see if I can try to sort this out for you some. First off diabetes should not be a death sentence for any cat. I have two here that I adopted as diabetics and both were in very sad shape when I adopted them, yet today they are both very happy and healthy kitties just one is still insulin dependent.

Do you know what insulin they are giving your kitty right now at the clinic? Glipizide is a very poor choice in a cat, first off it makes the pancreas work harder, when it is already damaged to begin with, insulin on the other hand allows the pancreas to rest and possibly heal so that it can again take over and start producing its own insulin again. The three best choices for insulin to use with a cat would be Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc. You will want to stay away from NPH/Humulin N as it a fairly harsh insulin that wears off too quickly.

No vet is ever going to get a dose regulated while the cat is in the clinic for one reason, that cat is stressed out, he isn't in familiar surroundings, and not eating well because he is stressed out. Unless your cat has something else going on like DKA where he truly needs to be hospitalized then you need a script for insulin and to bring him home. Since you are already able to test him at home, there is really nothing they are doing for him there that you can't do yourself at home. You can give insulin, you can test his BGs, we can help you learn how to adjust his dose based on the numbers you are seeing at home. If you have to you can syringe feed if he still won't eat on his own once he is home. But I am almost willing to bet that he will eat once he is home and can relax.

The other thing is a cat requires insulin to be given TWICE a day, so if they are only giving it once a day of course he is on a roller coaster ride. Because they give him his shot he responds well according to the numbers you were given and then it has worn off by the time he gets another one. So he rockets back up again. Cat metabolize insulin twice as fast as either dogs or humans. So even with the gentle long lasting insulin and especially with Lantus or Levemir which are depot insulins it needs to be given every twelve hours.

I'm going to share a couple of pictures with you since you are going to go see your boy tomorrow and I want you to see just how rough a cat can look when not regulated and how far they can come with just a little insulin, a proper low carb/high protein canned or raw diet and being tested at home..This way even if he looks really rough when you see him tomorrow you will know it may not be as dire as it looks.


This is my Autumn when I first adopted her, she barely weighed 6lbs and was so matted she had to be shaved, she also had neropathy that made it hard for her to walk and she was walking on her hocks.


This is the same cat 9 months later, she is now at her ideal weight of 14lbs, running, jumping and chasing my 2 year old kitty through the house, her fur has grown back and she is a happy, healthy and much loved little girl who just happens to take insulin twice a day.

BTW: Autumn's original owner didn't treat her diabetes at all for 10+ months before I adopted her, when she first arrived at my home her BG was 528, and she was severely dehydrated and had moderate ketones...yet she has not only survived but thrived because of the information and help I received from the folks here.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 

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Is your cat still eating dry food? That article I sent you the link for explains how bad dry food is for UTI's and blockages and can
cause blockages - especially in male cats. ( the other thing that is not good for male cats is too much seafood - causing crystals)

Depending on how bad the blockages have been ... you may very well be able to reverse all of this..

Your vet may be like mine.... not used to a client willing to put out the effort it takes to manage diabetes.
There are so many clients out there who give up just hearing the diagnosis ( according to my vet) that they never expected me
to jump in , and spend the time and effort .... My vet was shocked and amazed when I managed to get my own cat into remission.
 
lunarpixy said:
Hi Marje and Gracie, thanks for the welcome and the reply!

As far as I know, they are not giving him the glipizide at this point. She did not tell me which insulin they are using, only that they gave him a long acting dose this morning, and I believe she said they gave him another dose of a shorter acting insulin this afternoon. Nor did she mention anything about ketones or ketoacidosis. He is urinating on his own and drinking a bit, she said. She just kept saying that he was very ill from battling the UTI and the diabetes and that I needed to make a decision. I asked her if they would syringe feed him until I could get there tomorrow and she agreed. I really couldn't get much more out of her than that. :(
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Glipizide is horrid, harsh, and I have no idea why it would be used on your cat!
Get the name of the insulins they gave, the doses and the times given.

Let the cat go? As the others have said, unless there's a blockage or ketones or DKA going on, find out what has been done so far to your cat, get copies of all the records, including all drugs given, times, BG numbers and when they were taken, and get a prescription for an insulin... Lantus, Levemir or PZI, then take your cat home. Get a prescription for the meds for the UTI as well. Get copies of the tests done that show there is a UTI as well.

You don't regulate a cat at a vet office.
You do not give a cat insulin once a day.
Get your cat out of that place, and you can manage at home, provided there are no blockage, ketones, or DKA going on.

I have never heard of a vet saying that a UTI and diabetes can make a cat so sick, that cat needs to be let go. Ridiculous.

Feline diabetes is so very easily managed by the owners of the cats. There's no reason at all to see a vet to treat diabetes except to get the prescription for insulin, unless you are in Canada, and then you can just go to the pharmacy and buy the insulin you want. I never took my cats to the vet for any diabetes issues once they were diagnosed.

I am sure that once you bring your cat home, you will be able to get the diabetes regulated, on your cat's schedule.
 
Thanks to everyone who has replied...sooo much helpful information!

I AM thinking about just bringing him home. My boyfriend said that he's probably not eating because he's stressed out and doesn't feel well, and thinks he'd be better off at home. Also, I thought it was strange that he is getting only one dose of insulin, when everything I have read about feline diabetes said two doses a day is the norm. I have a meter and strips so I can test his blood here. Hopefully we'll get a prescription and then we can go from there. But it's so hard when the vet is basically telling you that you should put him down. I also worry about the urinary problem, we thought we had it under control when he was eating only wet food, but unfortunately, it came back with a vengeance.

MommaOfMuse, that is AMAZING. Wow, it's hard to believe that is the same kitty! What a lovely girl! Seeing that gives me hope!

Thank you all, for all your help!
 
In addition to blood glucose testing, you'll want to monitor for ketones with urine testing. See my signature link Seondary Monitoring Tools for info on that as well as other ways to assess your cat.

Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) ocurrs when too much fat is broken down for energy. Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown and too much overwhelms the body. It is a potentially fatal complication and can be very expensive to treat.
 
That is exactly why I wanted you to see her...a picture is worth a thousand words as they say. :-D

I didn't want you to walk in there tomorrow and see your boy looking rough around the edges and think there is no hope for him...If I can turn Autumn around with the help of the folks here, you can do it for your guy too. They all look aweful in the beginning, but a little extra care, a little insulin and the right diet and they can and do bounce back.

You may have to fight a little to bring him home, but I honestly think he will be much better off at home than there. We all eat, drink, and breathe feline diabetes here, everyday and 24 hours a day because everyone that will be offering advice either have or has had a diabetic furkid of their own that they have treated successfully, and not just diabetes either there is a wealth of just plain cat knowledge here and all the things that can go wrong. We can help you figure out how to help with just about anything that comes up, including when it truly is time to go see the vet. :-D In fact that little girl I showed you pictures of has been to the vet exactly twice...once when I had them shave her when I first adopted her, and again last wednesday to have a dental done, all things relating to her diabetes I handle right here at home just like a mother of a human child with diabetes.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I am still not sure about the ketoacidosis, they never mentioned it when I spoke to them earlier and it's too late to call now. I will check that link for the urine testing, thanks!

By the way, I am in Birmingham, Alabama if anyone in the area knows of a good vet for us!
 
Thank you, Marje and Momma and everyone else! I have to admit I am scared to death of what I am going to find when I get there tomorrow! I am also worried about this ketoacidosis...wondering if they even checked for that??
 
I wish you Good Luck. I hope you get your boy home and he does not have ketones, and with some insulin you get him feeling a lot better soon.
 
Good Morning Hope and welcome to our family! I concur with all the advice you have been given. My name is Kat & Gobbles is my sugar boy. You have a huge support system here; if it wasn't for FDMB, my life would be a wreck! Gobbles weight 11.2 when he was dx'd in November 2012. He is now up to 13 pounds! And looks like a new cat. FD is very treatable. It sounds like your sweetie has some underlying health issues. And it is awesome to hear you have testing equipment and are going to use it. Please keep us updated. Please get out a phone book and start calling around to find a new vet. Here's some important information; please read this before you start making phone calls: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1BqrojKe9oBVAoexL59pUWidEd7viNmxSqW5l2IBTWjY
 
Hi, just wanted to stop by and thank you guys again for all your warm welcomes and help.

Just got back from the vet - my poor Duke is gone :( I still don't know what happened, really. When he left here, he was ok, and then all of a sudden, he "got sick" on Sunday. That's all I could get out of her, that he just "got sick". No explanation, nothing. There is nothing that could have prepared me for what I found when I got there. He was still alive, but just barely. I feel there was absolutely nothing I could have done for him at home, because if I did, believe me, I would have gotten him out of there, but he was just too far gone.

You guys have such a great resource going on here, I just wish I had found you sooner!
 
OMG!
Oh I am so sorry - what I terrible thing to happen. Poor Duke and poor you!
You did your very best for Duke and I'm sure he knew that and loved you guys all the more for it.

wings_cat wings_cat
 
My deepest sympathy on the loss of your beloved Duke. I kept checking today for an update........was so praying he would be home with you. I'm so sorry the vet was so lacking in info for you and my heart goes out to you on his passing.
 
You don't know how much I appreciate your kind words. At least I know he's not miserable anymore. RIP my sweet baby.
 
I am so very sorry for your loss of your sweet Duke. I too had been checking all day hoping that you had him at home with you and were just spending some time cuddling with him.

Fly free Duke and land ever so softly back in the hearts of those that loved you.

Until You Meet Again.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I am so sorry for your loss of you baby Duke, please accept my deepest condolences. I was just looking for an update on how you were doing and saw this, again I am so so sorry for you. Fly free sweet cat. wings_cat
 
lunarpixy said:
Hi, just wanted to stop by and thank you guys again for all your warm welcomes and help.

Just got back from the vet - my poor Duke is gone :( I still don't know what happened, really. When he left here, he was ok, and then all of a sudden, he "got sick" on Sunday. That's all I could get out of her, that he just "got sick". No explanation, nothing. There is nothing that could have prepared me for what I found when I got there. He was still alive, but just barely. I feel there was absolutely nothing I could have done for him at home, because if I did, believe me, I would have gotten him out of there, but he was just too far gone.

You guys have such a great resource going on here, I just wish I had found you sooner!
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I am really sorry to hear about this! :YMHUG:
But if I was you I would get copies of all the records for this visit. And to be blunt, i wouldn't use that vet again.
 
i am deeply sorry for what you have been threw.
at least duke is free from pain and flying free.
i agree with getting all his records from your vet. Also know that you now know of here and in honor of duke you can spread he word about fd and here.
sending warmth, peace and comfort
"don't cry because it is over, smile because it happened~Dr. Suess"
 
I saw your post right after you put it up today and had to go off... very sad.... and angry too... at your vet.
I am very sorry , my condolences to you for losing Duke. ((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))
Fly Free Duke and land softly at the rainbow bridge. rb_icon
candle.gif







please bookmark http://catinfo.org/ so you can read it for any other cat you have, now or in the future.

It will make a great difference.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about Duke(((((((hugs & prayers)))))) I just now saw your post & threads.....Duke fly free wings_cat and gently land! I am upset about the niativity of the medical staff.....as I've posted previous times Our condolences for the loss of your beloved furbaby...............prayers & wishes Cindy & Sabrina cat_pet_icon
 
I am so appreciative of all the help and support I've received in the short time I've been around!

Anger is not the word. I am FURIOUS. I was given so much wrong information. My baby should have been on insulin from the very beginning, but I was told that cats don't do well on insulin and are very hard to regulate. And being from a family of diabetics, at least I had the sense to switch him to a low carb wet food, which was never recommended to me, even though I asked about diet. I TRUSTED these people, I had been going there for twenty years! And I still don't know what happened.

All I know is that I miss my kitty. And I learned a very hard lesson - QUESTION EVERYTHING. If something feels wrong, get out and go somewhere else. Just because someone has a Dr. in front of their name doesn't mean they know everything. I will be finding a new doc for the rest of my furry family.

Bless you all, and your sweet furbabies!
 
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