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Shylock

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Hi everyone, I am new here, and was quite happy to find this group!

I am wondering if you have any advice on the best holistic diet to feed a diabetic cat? My 11 year old cat, Shylock, was just diagnosed with diabetes. We're going to our vet tomorrow for a "diabetes consultation" and a lesson on giving insulin injections. This disease is something that I haven't dealt with yet as a pet owner and I am a little daunted. In the limited amount of research that I have done since I got the news (this morning), it seems that high protein, low carb, canned or raw diets are the best to feed. I am perplexed as I have had Shylock on a high quality canned diet for the last 3 years, grain free. Is there something else that I should take into consideration? I'm sure I will get some questions answered tomorrow at my vet (whom I adore and respect tremendously), though he is very traditional and of a "western" methodology and I am quite certain he will attempt to recommend a prescription diet, which I am really not comfortable feeding.

An insight you could give me would be wonderful! Thank you!
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB.

Don't be hard on yourself, sometimes even though we do all of the right things, life throws us a curve.

Can you tell us how your vet diagnosed Shylock's diabetes? Was it through a fructosomine test or just a simple blood glucose test? The fructosomine test gives an average glucose over several days. The blood glucose test is just a single snapshot of the current glucose levels. That is not always accurate, especially at a vet's office. Stress can easily raise the glucose levels up very high. There are also other contributors to diabetes such as genetics, infections and as you have found in your research, diet.

What brand of food do you feed Shylock? There are many commercial brand foods that are high in protein and low in carbs. Fancy Feast and Friskies have several flavors that work well with diabetic cats. Prescription food is not the best food for diabetic cats even though your vet may try to convince you otherwise.

What symptoms caused you to take Shylock to the vet?

If your vet prescribes insulin, Lantus, Levemir, PZI and Prozinc work very well in cats. If your vet prescribes either Lantus or Levemir, ask for a prescription for the pens instead of a cartridge. Insulin has a shelf life and the cartridge contains much more insulin than you will be able to use before it poops out. The pens are smaller containers and you should be able to use almost every drop. They are more economical than cartridges.

Also, you should consider learning to hometest. This means using a human glucose meter to test your cats glucose level before every shot. This will prevent you from giving insulin when the glucose level is too low and help avoid hypoglycemia. If your vet will not show you how to test, we can help. There are several videos that show you how. You can use any brand of glucose meter including store brands. Many of us, including me, use the Walmart Relion brand meters. Look for a meter that uses a little blood as possible to test.

If you have not already done so, start reading info on this site about diet, hometesting, hypoglycemia and insulin. Ask any questions you may have. We have all been where you are now and are here to help you.
 
Thank you so much for your reply!

Shylock was diagnosed after a blood test. I had a full senior blood panel run on him this last Saturday, my vet said his levels were over 400 (I'm assuming that was glucose). He was due for this panel, plus I had noticed that he had been drinking more water and flooding the litterbox lately with urine. I have another cat, as well, and hadn't noticed which of them had been leaving the "floods" until just a few days ago, when I observed him urinating. It sounded like one of my dogs was going in the litter, he had so much urine in him!

I should also note that Shylock has had a brain-induced growth on the side of his head that has been progressively getting bigger for the last 3 years. I had him at the local university neurology department 2 years back and they only suggested exploratory brain surgery for him. I cannot find a way to put him through that, emotionally, mentally, or physically. SO...we have had him on prednisone to keep the growth at bay for the last 3 years. I don't know if that might contribute to his recent diagnosis or not?

He has been eating Weruva canned for the last few years (only thing he would eat when he first was diagnosed with his cranial growth), and will occasionally nibble on my other cats kibble, Orijen 6 fish, though his canned food is his main-stay.

I so look forward to chatting after getting back from my vets tomorrow and learning much more. Thank you so much! It's really helpful to know that there are folks like you out there!

Stacy & Shylock
 
Steroids have been implicated in diabetes in a number of cats. However, it sounds like the steroids are a necessity for Shylock and so you will just have to work around it with the insulin dose. I haven't dealt with that particular situation but many others have and will be along soon to offer suggestions.

Good luck at the vet tomorrow.
 
I would also suggest the steroid is the cause of his diabetes, especially since his diet is good.

Have you researched insulins for cats on the board or other resources? One excellent resource is the Pet Diabetes Wiki http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Please take a look at the 2 longer acting insulins, Lantus and Levemir. Since it sounds like you might have an "old school" vet, there may be some resistance to using either of those. He is more likely to have heard of Lantus than Levemir, so you might ask about Lantus.

Humulin N would be the least desirable. Some vets feel that because PZI/prozinc is molecularly closest to a cat's own system it is "the best." It works well, but for some cats does not provide long enough action. Lantus and Levemir work by maintaining more level blood glucose at the right dose and can have 12 to 14 hour duration, so their ability to give the pancreas a break and improve the chance of remission is possibly greater.

We're here to help, so ask whatever questions you think of. You're at the beginning, which is the most stressful time, it gets easier. Home testing is the best way to control feline diabetes and help owners feel in control and less stressed. Don't change his diet. The prescription diets probably have grains, which means carbs, which are inappropriate for cats anyway, and make managing diabetes more difficult just like for people.
 
Welcome to the board! this is a great place for the help you are looking for to get you thru this "dance" as it's called around here.
Another vote for lantus here - we went into remission on it in a month with a diet change.
 
Thank you all so much!

My vet said he was putting Shylock on Lantus right away, I didn't even have to try to convince him of it (there is a reason I've been seeing him for 15 years!) :) We picked up our prescription today and I gave my first insulin injection tonight! It was so easy and great! Not great in the sense that I had to give it, but great in that the needle is SO tiny and Shylock didn't even seem to notice that I was giving it. I had to give one of my dogs subQ fluids for the last 3 months of her life (this was just a few months back), 2x each day and it was *terrible*. The needle was huge and she hated it every step of the way:( I can only hope that this continues to go as well with Shylock. Shylock is going in on this next Tuesday for a blood glucose curve test at our vet. I don't fully understand this process yet, but am feeling invigorated that this is a treatable condition...

My, and my husband's, current fear is that he may slip into a glycemic episode when we are at work. What are the signs that we would look for, exactly? How long after an injection would one typically occur? We have karo syrup on the counter ready if needed and I am planning on having my sister check on him during the day while we are gone.

Thanks again, to all of you. It's so nice to know that there are knowledgable, experienced people just a keystroke away!

Feeling encouraged...at the moment...

Stacy & Shylock
 
Here is the info on hypo. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887. You have a nice mild insulin and I hope a nice low dose like one unit or less?

But the best way to keep your kitty safe and prevent a hypo is to test at home. Will your vet be willing to show you or could we?

The problem with tests done at the vet is that most cats are stressed there and stress raises bg levels. (strange noises, smells, animals and lots of people who are NOT the Mommy and Daddy....). If he is higher at the vet than he would be at home, the dose prescribed might be too high when he gets home. Testing at home gives you an immediate picture of how the insulin is working.
 
He is on 3 units currently. Is that too high? He is a robust kitty at a current weight of 15.3 lbs. My vet did say that he had prescribed on the "low" end to start with, as he was too, concerned about dosing on the high end.

Should I talk to my vet about his dose or perhaps reduce it for tomorrow mornings injection?
 
Hi everyone. I just wanted to post real quick with an update on Shylock. He had been doing great on the 4 units of Lantus, he has been on this for about 4 weeks. Yesterday, we noticed that he had some very foul-smelling poop. Today, we noticed that he continues with the foul-smelling poop, which has turned into diarrhea, but is quite gassy as well. His activity level seems down, and he couldn't jump the baby gate out of "his" room to return to the living room downstairs (his favorite place to be). My husband found him laying by the baby gate, which is very out of character for him, as he usually goes in there to use the litterbox, munch, and then is out.

I will be calling my vet tomorrow morning, but want to know if this is any kind of major red flag? His diet has not changed, nor has his insulin regime, for the last month. This came on suddenly.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated! Thanks!
 
Shylock said:
Hi everyone. I just wanted to post real quick with an update on Shylock. He had been doing great on the 4 units of Lantus, he has been on this for about 4 weeks. Yesterday, we noticed that he had some very foul-smelling poop. Today, we noticed that he continues with the foul-smelling poop, which has turned into diarrhea, but is quite gassy as well. His activity level seems down, and he couldn't jump the baby gate out of "his" room to return to the living room downstairs (his favorite place to be). My husband found him laying by the baby gate, which is very out of character for him, as he usually goes in there to use the litterbox, munch, and then is out.

I will be calling my vet tomorrow morning, but want to know if this is any kind of major red flag? His diet has not changed, nor has his insulin regime, for the last month. This came on suddenly.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you home testing his BG.

Do you have any numbers ?

You knew we were gonna ask that, huh ?
 
We haven't been home testing. I asked my vet about it from the onset and he seems to have much more faith in the curve test run at the clinic. He stated that it is difficult to home test.

Can I ask, for those of you that do home test, how you do it? Is it a blood test or a urine test? If it urine, how do you do it? I would much rather test at home than run him to the vet every couple of weeks, it would give me a peace of mind as well as save Shylock the stress.

I feel so terrible that I don't have more knowledge in this area.

I would love to hear how you all deal with this! Thanks!
 
When Bandit was diagnosed, my vet told me I had to home test because office curves were inaccurate due to vet stress. 4u is a high dose of insulin. Most cats on a low carb canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin. I really would urge to to start as soon as you can. Many people show up here on large doses based off vet curves and realize that their cats have been going dangerously low once they test at home. Home testing seems hard at first, but after about a week it is so easy, you'll be amazed. I never thought Bandit would let me do it, and he did fight me the first week, but once he realized he gets a treat after each test he started running to me to be tested. Now he purrs through the whole thing.

Also, it is WAY cheaper to test at home yourself than do vet curves.
 
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