Hello from Norway :)

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Nepthaphis

Member Since 2014
Greetings!

My name is Heidi and I'm owned by two beautiful furry children, one whom unfortunately has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
Our neutered tom Largo is 13 years old and came to us when he was 6 as a rescue cat from Dyrebeskyttelsen (the Norwegian Humane Society) He's a gentle giant and a charming fellow :)

Here he is, lounging on the sofa watching birds on the telly :)


We've just started insulin treatment and special diet (RC Diabetic - dry and wet food). Our kitties are indoor/outdoor cats (open cat flap during the day, kept indoors during the night) and luckily - since Largo never misses a meal, he's able to continue beeing indoor/outdoor even with his diabetes. Thankfully we caught the disease early so it looks like our (not so-) little guy is doing quite well as we're working on getting him stabilized.

He's getting insulin injections every morning and night with his main meals. But even before the diabetes, he was always a food-lover, and we're much at fault since we've spoilt both cats a bit by letting them having the odd little piece of meat from our dinner plates, or a bit of cheese when we're fixing lunch.. Now our vet has told us we need to restrict his food and keep him on his diet and we understand the importance of this - after all, we want to keep him happy and healthy for as long as we can!

Now I'm busy reading everthing I can get my hands on to learn how to best manage his diabetes - this forum among other things :) And some things confuse me a little, so I hope I can get some insights from someone more experienced with this kind of situation :)

Initially, there are three things I would like to ask:

1) We understand the importance of giving insulin at the same time every day - morning and afternoon - with a 12 hour intervall. Our vet says there's a 30 minute window - so since we're usually giving him his shots at 6:30 am and pm, from what I understand that means even if we strive hard to stay 'on the mark', any time between 6:15 and 6:45 is okay in a pinch - is this correct?

2) Our vet also says to feed our kitty consistently - the same amount and type of food at the same times every day. He's already used to half a satchel of wet food and 1/3 of his dry food in the mornings and the same at night + the rest of the dry food for 'supper'. (And divided by 'lunch' and 'supper' on the weekends when we're home from work) Problem is, both kitties are used to having their dinner earlier than the time Largo needs his evening shot of insulin - usually around 4-5 pm - not 6:30 pm... (And we can't feed our other kitty My before Largo eats, or he'll just steal her food...) I know it's very important that he eats when he's getting insulin - no eating or in case of vomiting = no insulin. But do we really have to feed him his dinner/main evening meal at the same time as the insulin, or is it okay to feed the wet food an hour or two earlier, and then the dry food with the insulin at the correct time? Also I see online that many people who have 'grazing' cats leave the dry food out even for diabetic cats so they can eat at will. This will not work with Largo as he immediately scarfs down anything in site (always have), but could we still give him some lunch on the weekends and such? We are very conscious about the amount of food - always weighing both kitties dry food and giving the same amount of wet food every day.

3) Our kitties used to get fresh fish (usually pollock) for dinner on Saturdays (because kitties should have the occational fine dining too :) :) ) but we've been afraid to give this since the diagnosis. Can we still give our diabetic cat one meal of fresh fish per week if we calculate the amount of calories and give the same amount as would have been his customary dinner of half a bag of diabetic wet food?

Sorry for so many and long (and possibly ignorant) questions, but it's all pretty overwhelming at the moment!

I must add that we plan to start measuring his glucose levels at home too, but we are waiting a little so as to let him get used to the new routines with insulin and all first - it's a lot of newness for him as well, poor baby.

Love & Blessings from Heidi & Largo :)
 

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Hi Heidi and extra sweet kitty Largo and welcome to the message board!

Would you please tell us what insulin you are using for Largo? Some of our responses are dependent on which insulin you are using.

When I took my diabetic cat Wink in as a foster cat, I needed to switch meal times for my other kitties so they were all on the same schedule. It made it much simpler for me. They did not like to wait the extra time, but they did get used to it.

The occasional meal of fish is just fine to feed your cats. We don't recommend feeding fish more than once a week, since fish has contaminates like mercury in it. Mercury is not good for people or cats.
 
We have found it is possible to feed low carb over the counter food to diabetic cats and it reduced the blood glucose about 100 mg/dL and possibly reduced insulin by 2 units.

Some European food options are discussed in this thread

Cat Info, written by a veterinarian discusses feline nutrition. You might share this with your vet.
 
Hello BJM & Deb & Wink, and thank you for helping out!! :smile:

We're using Vetsulin - http://www.vetsulin.com/default.aspx - 2 IU twice daily :)

I will certainly check the European food options and Cat info links!

We're keeping the same meal time for both our kitties - also now with the adjustment, but the challenge is that our she-cat My is more of a fuzzy eater. She likes to graze but since Largo will eat anything within reach we can't leave her food out (She's got arthritis, so is on a speical diet for that) Still, in order to get her to eat enough we have to give her several small feedings of dry food in between meal times - and hidden from Largo.. ;-)


I guess they'll get used to a later dinner eventually - that's the main change from their usual routine.

Thank you so much for your kind help!
 

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Researching to see what lower carb food options you have available to you is good, but I would wait until you are home testing before you do the switch to a lower carb food, as Largo's blood sugars could go down quite a bit and you don't want them to plummet when you are not home testing.

BJM said:
We have found it is possible to feed low carb over the counter food to diabetic cats and it reduced the blood glucose about 100 mg/dL and possibly reduced insulin by 2 units.
 
Hello Heidi, and welcome to FDMB! :smile:

Are you willing to have a go at testing Largo's blood glucose at home? It's not nearly as hard as it sounds, and shouldn't hurt Largo at all. In fact many cats come to look forward to tests if they are rewarded with a low carb treat or a cuddle.
Most of us here use ordinary glucose meters made for humans.
If you'd like to learn to test I'm sure we can help you with that.

Eliz
 
Hello Dyana and Elizabeth & Bertie :)

We plan to start home-testing Largo in a little while - I've already purchased the glucose meter and read up on how to do it here + watched various YouTube videoes where it's done :)

The plan is just to take it a bit slow at first to let Largo ease into our new routines - he's been on insulin for two weeks now - the first week at a cat hotel run by a vet, and this last week at home with us.
But we will definetly start testing soon, and I realize it's a good idea to stay on the prescription food the vet has given us until we have started testing and get a better idea of how his blood sugar curve is and can monitor how his levels react to different foods :)

Thank you so much for your support!
 
Sounds like you have found some videos of how to test already. Here is a great link with lots of other tips on testing. My top 2 picks? Warm the ear, lots of pure protein treats for your kitty Largo.

This link talks about getting your cat comfortable with the process, or ear testing psychology as we like to call it. ;-) ;-)
 
Awesome!

Thank you so much :) The more I read about cat nutrition the more changing foods make sense (and it makes me want to slap myself for never questioning dry kibble until now) - so that too is a strong incentive to start testing at home!

We tested the Glucometer on ourselves last night, so we're gearing up to testing the kitty!!
 
Hello from Denmark.

See if you can get your vet to give you an insulin called levemir or lantus. It is for people, but so much better than vetsulin and it will help getting your cat better.

I give my cat cheese, meat from my plate and so on, for as long that it has no carbs in it. My cats numbers are between 9-12 before insulin (around 200), and the numbersdosent change much because of the small ekstra meals.i feed my cat every 6 hours, i use a feeding machine to feed the meals when i sleep or when i amat work.

It is very important you skip the dry food. There are to many carbs in it, even though it is the diabetic kind. I buy low carb wet food from Www.zooplus.com. They deliver around europe. If you get the kind called Smilla poultry pots or Smilla fish pots,you will reduce the carbs to almost nothing. But dont change the food before you can hometest, because the change will reduce your cats need of insulin. My cat didnt need insulin anymore 3 weeksafter i changed the food. And for 3 years she was foodcontrolled. Unfortunately she is now back on thejuice.

Hometesting is pretty easy, just give your cat a little piece of cheese when you are done, and he will begin to love testtime :)
 
Hello Charlotte & Prop!

So nice to meet someone else from 'this side of the pond'!! :smile:

Thank you for the advise on insulin - I will discuss this with my vet at our next visit! And Largo will be super-happy to hear that meat and cheese need not be forbidden in the future - he's been a food junkie ever since we got him from Dyrebeskyttelsen 7 years ago!

It's incredible that your cat could go off insulin for three years after switching foods! WOW! I'm sad to hear she's back on it again now but at least she has a human mom who knows exactly how to care for her. Best wishes to the both of you! <3

And I absolutely want to get off the dry food - I'm feeling so guilty for having fed my kitties dry food for so many years not even stopping to ask if it's a responsible thing to do! We've always fed the type of dry food you buy at the vet and trusted that since they're selling it it's okay :( But Largos diabetes has certainly opened my eyes! It makes perfect sense when you think about it - there is no diabetes among lions or tigers or other wild cats, is there? So it must be a human-induced condition - something we've brought upon our kitties by malnurishing them over years and years! And even in zoo's nobody would dream about feeding the big cats 'lion-kibble'...

Since Norway is not part of the EU it's not so easy for me to order large quantities of cat food from abroad - I have to pay massive taxes and customs fees. However I've found a Norwegian online store that sells the Swedish brand Bozita (http://www.bozita.com/) and the wet food seems like a reasonable choice. I will try it on my finicky she-cat My first (she doesn't have diabetes but has some mild arthritis issues) and as soon as we've got the home-testing under control I will switch Largo too.

Like mentioned in a post earlier, he's now on RC Diabetic dry and wet food and I figure I can start by giving him more wet food and less dry food gradually as of right now as well - since it's the same type of food. I understand that any wet food is better than dry...

Phew! This is a very steep learning curve! I'm so glad I found this forum - it's been a great help already! :)
 
Dont feed more wet than dry before you hometest the bg. The bloodsugar will drop and you will need to reduce the insulin. And you need to test to see if Largo will drop to low.
 
We have had reports on a drop of 100 mg/dL with a switch to low carb food. And my GA Spitzer dropped from 3 units to 1 upon switching the food.
 
My awesome kitty Largo actually let me prick his ear and test his blood the very first time I tried! Yay!
Credit goes to all of you guys here and the tips and hints you've shared :-D

I waited until he'd had his supper and had fallen asleep after cuddling next to me on the couch. He woke up as I got ready, but didn't even flinch when I used the lancet pen on his ear and was only mildly annoyed for a little while when I held his ear long enough to massage out a drop of blood. Then he was purring away again <3

Bad news is that his blood sugar is high 23,3 mmol/L - I understand it should ideally be between 4-14 :? But he'd eaten his supper (dry kibble) around an hour ago and it's been 5,5 hours since he had is insulin shot. Plus I might have messed something up seeing this was the first actual testing.

I will see if he'll let me test him again tomorrow morning before he gets is breakfast and insulin.

I don't like his reading beeing so high, but our vet said it would take a while for the insulin to really start working (as in many days)- any thoughts on that? We're scheduled to come in for a checkup in a week unless he seems to be doing worse. And today he's acutally seemed to have more energy than he's had in weeks.

Now I'm all worried about the high reading :shock:
 
With those high numbers, you may now start switching out the dry with the low carb wet. Go with 20-25% different food each day to avoid GI upsets of inappetance, vomiting, or diarrhea.

Hang in with the higher numbers and pick up some urine test strips for ketone testing. Ketones form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories when glucose can't be used. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (Dka), a potentially fatal, expensive to treat complication of diabetes. The test strips you need are brand or generic versions of either KetoDiaStix (ketones & glucose in urine) or just KetoStix (ketones only) available in many pharmacies or online. See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for a few tips on using them, as well as some other assessments you may find helpful to make.
 
Thanks BJM!

I tried testing again this morning before breakfast and insulin, but even though Largo was patient at first and let me poke him several times, I could not get enough blood :(
Did another test later today that went well but got another high reading - 24,8 :(

Will try testing again before dinner and 2nd insulin shot of the day
 
When you absolutely must.get.blood, aim for the vein. It may bleed profusely, which is why we don't normally use it. Be prepared to blot firmly to help it stop bleeding and avoid bruising.

And try around the probable nadir, ie lowest glucose level, between +5 to +7. It'll let you see how things are progressing with the food change if you can get a successful test.

Also, with clean hands, you can scoop the blood droplet on your fingernail to test, while you blot.
 
hi from UK!

Largo is gorgeous!!! I've had a few high numbers for Angel too, but having re assuringly lower ones most of the time since switching food. He's on caninsulin which I believe is the same as vetinsulin, will hopefully be changing to either Lantus or PZI in mid July as part of a clinical trial. I've tried to find out whether zooplus deliver to Norway but looks like they don't. I'm guessing if I ordered food for you and sent it on they'd charge you a load of tax?

Here's a link that shows you the carbohydrate content of the different flavours of Bozita, it's mostly for foods available in the uk but it will give you an idea.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=1

hugs,
Cassandra
 
Thanks for the tip BJM!

I managed to test him successfully pre-breakfast and insulin this morning! He's such a wonderful kitty :) We'll get the hang of this yet!

And thank you SO much Cassandra - you are such a sweetie! :D
Toll and customs regulations in Norway (since we're not part of EU) are a drag - I do a lot of online shopping for all kinds of things, and as long as I stay under 200 Norwegian Kroner (around £20) it's fine, but there are only so many things you can buy within those limits.. (I buy things like fabric, clothes, kitty supplements, books, music, movies and what have you from eBay, Etsy and such..)

I've found that many people in Norway with diabetic cats feed Bozita wet food with good results, and that's a brand I can get in Norwegian web stores. I've ordered a sampling of all the available flavours (minus the fish/seafood) and will see what my finicky non-diabetic kitty My thinks about them. She's the decciding factor as she's the picky one - Largo loves everything food :) I'm still royally pissed that the Vets keep recommending crappy dry food for all kinds of medicinal conditions however - I feel so bad for all the years I've fed my babies the wrong kind of food :(

And thanks for the link to the chart! These are the same flavours available in Norway :)

Love,
Heidi :)
 
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