Heard back from vet re: diet for Sammy - what do you think?

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Pugwinkle

Member Since 2016
I decided to start a new thread because my thread here got rather long and I wasn't sure people would read all the way through in order to seem my new post.

In short Sammy had a urinary blockage and was put on prescription food which is crazy expensive to feed to two cats ($350.00 per month for canned and dry) so I'm looking for alternatives in either feeding all canned food (no more kibble) or going to a raw diet. So I emailed my vet asking about Sammy's blood results and gave her links to Dr. Lisa's website and stated that I would like to change Sammy to an all canned diet or raw and asked for her thoughts. The following is the response I received from my vet. I would appreciate your thoughts.

"I hope Sammy is doing well. He had a mild elevation in his kidney enzyme – likely cause by the obstruction. His urine showed some struvite crystals.

There was a miscommunication on the type of food- the prescription purina urinary diet that we have here is my second choice of diet- not Purina One. There is
certainly an advantage to feeding canned food but the C/D diet has been shown in studies that their dry is better than even feeding all canned.
The precription diets have the research and testing behind them to support their claims. The purina prescription is less expensive than the Hills.
I’m not sure how your cost estimate got so high? How many cats would you be feeding? Could you try to feed Sammy separately?

Sorry I didn’t respond earlier, I will be back in the office on Monday if you have any questions."
 
I think your vet is wrong and I have to wonder about "the studies" sometimes. Recently a friend has taken up selling an expensive Multivitamin. She cites lots of studies and research, all are done by the company or sponsored by the company. This makes me curious if independent peer reviewed research (outside of the pet food company) is done on any prescription food to prove it is better than commercial food.

I'd like to know what is special in the prescription diet that is good for Sammy. Not the brand but what makes it specifically so special compared to regular food. If he can't answer that question I'd like to know why he recommends it then.
 
Ferndoc said:
I think your vet is wrong and I have to wonder about "the studies" sometimes. Recently a friend has taken up selling an expensive Multivitamin. She cites lots of studies and research, all are done by the company or sponsored by the company. This makes me curious if independent peer reviewed research (outside of the pet food company) is done on any prescription food to prove it is better than commercial food.

I'd like to know what is special in the prescription diet that is good for Sammy. Not the brand but what makes it specifically so special compared to regular food. If he can't answer that question I'd like to know why he recommends it then.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. There is no way any dry diet can be better for a urinary issue. Vets push Rx food because they get paid by the companies to sell it.
 
Again, I have to agree with the others here. Vets sell Rx food as it improves the bottom line of the business (in retail it's called add on sales). I had one vet who said Squeaker had crystals (didn't specify what kind other than bladder) and that he needed Rx food. Every time I fed Squeaker he would projectile vomit, then began scratching (food allergy). I switched vets, new vet stated explicitly that Rx food did not help crystals at all. And, I have to disagree with your vet about can v. kibble. Wet food is so much better for them.
 
Most "studies" are done by the pet food companies and are definitely biased.

If you type "cat urinary blockage dry food?" into google article after article come up saying dry food is bad for cats.

This is one article written by a vet that talks about blockage:

http://www.preventivevet.com/cats/help-my-cat-cant-pee-feline-urethral-obstruction-be-preventive

"
As was touched upon in the Be Aware article, there are certain factors or attributes which are known to increase a cat’s risk for developing a urethral obstruction. An expanded list of these risk factors is presented again here, as they are important to consider when developing a plan to decrease your cat’s risk of developing this awful condition.

  • Male cats are at higher risk than female cats.
  • Overweight cats are at greater risk than cats of good body condition.
  • Cats that eat only (or even predominantly) dry food are at greater risk than those that eat exclusively (or predominantly) wet food.
  • Cats that have previously had a urethral obstruction are at increased risk of obstruction.
  • Cats with recurrent bouts of bladder inflammation (‘cystitis’) are at increased risk of developing a urethral obstruction.
  • Cats with a chronic history of mineral crystals in their urine (‘crystaluria’) are at increased risk of a urethral obstruction.
  • Cats are at increased risk of urethral obstruction during times of stress in their life."

Many vets are either selling for their own profits or have been brain-washed by the company sales pitch. Vets do not get much time on nutrition during their training. My vet tried to push Purina DM (wet at least) to "help" with diabetes and I said my own home-made food was a better quality and more nutritious. She said...well maybe there is something special in the food...maybe an extra ingredients. I said NO!! She quit trying to push it after I gave her a run-down on my own food.
 
Is this the food they are recommending?

Hill's® Prescription Diet® c/d® Multicare Feline with Chicken Dry Cat Food
new-product.gif

fjYKXAjlo.webp

p-95169-6247V.jpg

VIEW ZOOM IMAGE
Ingredients
Chicken, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Brewers Rice, Pork Fat, Chicken Meal, Egg Product, Pork Flavor, Soybean Oil, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, L-Lysine, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene.

Average Nutrient and Caloric Content:
Dry 3846 kcal/kg (349 kcal/cup†)



Nutrient Dry Matter1 %
Protein 33.4
Fat 16.1
Carbohydrate (NFE) 43.7
Crude Fiber 1.2
Calcium 0.77
Phosphorous 0.8
Sodium 0.37
Potassium 0.66
Magnesium 0.080
Taurine 0.20
Vitamin E 749 IU/kg
Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total 0.70

------------------------------------------------------

I would not feed this to my cat. Ever.
 
My non diabetic cat was put on CD by his vet for urinary crystals. Feeding times were impossible because the diabetic cat wanted his high carb stuff and she's the aggressive one. I asked the vet for an alternative, and she suggested raw, which I now feed both. Since I've started adding water to his raw (almost four years now), he's been blockage free (antijinx). He's now getting some low carb low phosphorus canned (he added IBD to his mix) and still all good. And much easier on the pocket book.

More reading if you are interested: http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-what-dry-food-does-to-your-cat-s-pee
 
Squalliesmom said:
Is this the food they are recommending?

Hill's® Prescription Diet® c/d® Multicare Feline with Chicken Dry Cat Food
new-product.gif

fjYKXAjlo.webp

p-95169-6247V.jpg

VIEW ZOOM IMAGE
Ingredients
Chicken, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Brewers Rice, Pork Fat, Chicken Meal, Egg Product, Pork Flavor, Soybean Oil, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, L-Lysine, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene.

Average Nutrient and Caloric Content:
Dry 3846 kcal/kg (349 kcal/cup†)



Nutrient Dry Matter1 %
Protein 33.4
Fat 16.1
Carbohydrate (NFE) 43.7
Crude Fiber 1.2
Calcium 0.77
Phosphorous 0.8
Sodium 0.37
Potassium 0.66
Magnesium 0.080
Taurine 0.20
Vitamin E 749 IU/kg
Omega-3 Fatty Acids Total 0.70

------------------------------------------------------

I would not feed this to my cat. Ever.
Click to expand...
Yes that looks like what they sent home with Sammy but it's the STRESS type. Same stuff I imagine but on the bag it says STRESS right below where it says Multicare c/d. So tell me why you would never feed this to your cats. What are the ingredients that I should be telling my vet are not acceptable?
 
Here's the STRESS C/D...Ingredients look about the same....italics and bold are what I'd point out first

Chicken, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Brewers Rice, Pork Fat, Chicken Meal, Egg Product, Pork Flavor, Soybean Oil, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, L-Lysine, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Dried Hydrolyzed Casein, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene

Nutrient Dry Matter1
%
Protein 33.4
Fat 16.7
Carbohydrate (NFE) 43.0
 
Wendy&Neko said:
My non diabetic cat was put on CD by his vet for urinary crystals. Feeding times were impossible because the diabetic cat wanted his high carb stuff and she's the aggressive one. I asked the vet for an alternative, and she suggested raw, which I now feed both. Since I've started adding water to his raw (almost four years now), he's been blockage free (antijinx). He's now getting some low carb low phosphorus canned (he added IBD to his mix) and still all good. And much easier on the pocket book.

More reading if you are interested: http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-what-dry-food-does-to-your-cat-s-pee
Click to expand...
@Wendy&Neko Which raw do you feed? or do you make your own?

Sorry, Pugwinkle, don't mean to hijack your thread!
 
Pugwinkle said:
Yes that looks like what they sent home with Sammy but it's the STRESS type. Same stuff I imagine but on the bag it says STRESS right below where it says Multicare c/d. So tell me why you would never feed this to your cats. What are the ingredients that I should be telling my vet are not acceptable?
Click to expand...
Chris has already highlighted the major offenders, although I agree with Critter Mom about the soybean oil. This food is full of starch and fillers, both high in carbs and not well-digested by cats.

Somebody else here may have already directed you to this site so I apologize if I'm repeating info that you already have. If not, then you should take the time to read this, it is an excellent article, and very informative regarding cat nutrition.

www.catinfo.org

It also includes a list of canned foods under 10% carbs.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
My non diabetic cat was put on CD by his vet for urinary crystals. Feeding times were impossible because the diabetic cat wanted his high carb stuff and she's the aggressive one. I asked the vet for an alternative, and she suggested raw, which I now feed both. Since I've started adding water to his raw (almost four years now), he's been blockage free (antijinx). He's now getting some low carb low phosphorus canned (he added IBD to his mix) and still all good. And much easier on the pocket book.

More reading if you are interested: http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-what-dry-food-does-to-your-cat-s-pee
Click to expand...
Hi again, what is the canned food that you are feeding your cats. You may have already told me but I have been doing so much research over the last few days I can't remeber
Chris & China said:
Here's the STRESS C/D...Ingredients look about the same....italics and bold are what I'd point out first

Chicken, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Brewers Rice, Pork Fat, Chicken Meal, Egg Product, Pork Flavor, Soybean Oil, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, L-Lysine, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Dried Hydrolyzed Casein, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene

Nutrient Dry Matter1
%
Protein 33.4
Fat 16.7
Carbohydrate (NFE) 43.0
Click to expand...
30Can someone here please help me understand how a vet that I have trusted for over 30 years with my animals lives would want to prescribe a food that is not of good quality?
 
Last edited:
Pugwinkle said:
Can someone here please help me understand how a vet that I have trusted for over 30 years with my animals lives would want to prescribe a food that is not of good quality?
Click to expand...

Vets get only a few hours of formal education on nutrition when they are in school and that covers ALL animals....after that, pretty much the only "education" they get involving nutrition comes from the pet food industry who push their products in vet clinics.

Here's a great article on the Truth behind Prescription Foods
 
Pugwinkle said:
Can someone here please help me understand how a vet that I have trusted for over 30 years with my animals lives would want to prescribe a food that is not of good quality?
Click to expand...
Big Pet Food works hard to convince vets about the alleged virtues of their products. Vets (and doctors) like to work from a scientific evidence base. Trouble is a lot of the food studies are egregious examples of bad science.


Mogs
.
 
Yes I've been told that but seriously??? I'm not a vet but I do a lot of research on my own and I would think a vet that cares for animals would take the time to learn about nutrition. Even basic nutrition. Like not not feed a cat kibble. It only took me a few minutes online to see how many website say that dry food is a huge "no no" for cats. I am sure that my vet has seen the same sites I have seen but she still recommends the dry food for Sammy's urinary tract blockage?!?!? In fact, I did send her links ot catinfo.org and specifially the link to the urinary tract page.
 
In Canada, vets get four hours of education on pet nutrition. The so called vet food companies work hard to "educate" vets. Before my vet suggested raw, she offered to talk to Hills to see what they suggest? Not what I would call an unbiased source of information.

I am feeding both commercial manufactured raw and home made, as well as Nature's Variety and Ziwipeak canned at the moment. The IBD means I have to feed unique proteins so is a harder problem than most.
 
If you haven't been there yes, I suggest going to Www.catinfo.org and reading what a vet specializing in feline nutrition has to say. She has a section on urinary issues and a food chart listing carbs and phosphorus in most commercially available pet foods in the US.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Before my vet suggested raw, she offered to talk to Hills to see what they suggest? Not what I would call an unbiased source of information.
Click to expand...
When Saoirse was seen by a feline specialist at a prestigious veterinary centre over here last year I discussed the problems I was having finding a diet that Saoirse could tolerate (chronic pancreatitis). I told her that I was considering consulting a feline nutrition specialist about developing a homemade diet tailored to Saoirse's needs. The specialist said that they had excellent feline nutrition specialists in the States to whom she could refer me but I advised that I already had someone in mind (Dr Pierson). The following day when I went to collect Saoirse she let slip that the "excellent feline nutrition specialists" were Hill's. I declined the repeated offer of a referral. The conversation moved briefly to how poorly I now view prescription and other dry diets after all the harm that they have done to my beloved companions down the years, and to Saoirse and Tara in particular. (I lost Tara.) I explained that all of Saoirse's current woes had their roots in a highly probable allergic reaction to Royal Canin prescription dry diets (urinary s/o, urinary s/o moderate calorie, feline obesity - see where this is going?). The specialist became distinctly hostile toward me when I criticized the prescription diets. Tough.

When I adopted my first two rescue cats I specifically asked their vet for advice on the best food to feed them and I was told categorically that dry food was superior to wet food. I was surprised but I trusted the vet and gave the most important living beings in my life dry food. And food allergies. And IBD. And pancreatitis. And diabetes. And urinary tract blockages. And pain. And death.

I feel betrayed by the veterinary professionals in whom I placed my trust but I feel much more anger toward myself for unquestioningly trusting a vet (even though that was not an unreasonable action at face value) instead of educating myself about how to properly care for my beloved companions. I will never forgive myself.


Mogs
.
 
Last edited:
Wendy&Neko said:
In Canada, vets get four hours of education on pet nutrition. The so called vet food companies work hard to "educate" vets. Before my vet suggested raw, she offered to talk to Hills to see what they suggest? Not what I would call an unbiased source of information.

I am feeding both commercial manufactured raw and home made, as well as Nature's Variety and Ziwipeak canned at the moment. The IBD means I have to feed unique proteins so is a harder problem than most.
Click to expand...
I use the Nature's Variety, I have an IBD baby, too. I'd like to try making homemade, is it difficult (I'm disabled)?
 
You can buy premises that you add to raw meat, pretty easy, depending on your ability. Some use a food processor to mix it all together.
 
When Squallie was diagnosed my vet at that time put him on Purina D/M dry , and I had no idea it wasn't good for him! I trusted her to know what was okay and what wasn't. :( When I discovered how awful it was for him, I put him on Fancy Feast pate. When she found out, she and the assistant really read me the riot act. She told me I was going to kill my cat!!! She is no longer my vet, needless to say.
 
Squalliesmom said:
When Squallie was diagnosed my vet at that time put him on Purina D/M dry , and I had no idea it wasn't good for him! I trusted her to know what was okay and what wasn't. :( When I discovered how awful it was for him, I put him on Fancy Feast pate. When she found out, she and the assistant really read me the riot act. She told me I was going to kill my cat!!! She is no longer my vet, needless to say.
Click to expand...

What does the DM stand for?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top