Haven't seen THIS cat in years o.O

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Barb & Mr. Frog

Member Since 2013
I'm so confused, yesterday Frog's amps was 376 and the +3 was 358, now today, the amps was 377 (very close to yesterdays amps) but the +3 is 318. I have my grandson today so it wasn't really my intention to do mid-cycle tests today, but ..... Frog was suddenly taken by the urge to run around the house like a mad man..... jumping up onto, then back down off of each of the several 'cat towers' I have placed around my home, I swear he was playing like a kitten..... I just HAD to test his sugar to make sure this wasn't some crazy hypo thing I hadn't heard of, it's lower than yesterday's +3 (am) but ... apparently he was just feeling fantastic. I am hoping to see THIS kitty a lot more, wow, he had me giggling :)
 
:-D :-D :-D

It is also called being a cat- they do as they do when they want to ... or something like that.

Good to hear Frog was feeling some non-grain oats!
 
lol actually all of the rest of the carpet was kind of sitting off to the sides looking at him as though he were crazy...One of his sisters, Sweet Pea, does this fairly regularly, but she has always been the 'healthy' one of the lot, so I think she just uses that to get some real exercise... and probably that is what Frog was up to as well, but it makes me so happy that he wants to!
 
but it makes me so happy that he wants to!

Yes, that is our goal here really. To help you get your cat feeling like their old selves again, playing and jumping and eating and purring their heads off.
 
Yes, and it is a mighty happy goal to meet, even if for only a moment (although atm he is still in a really good mood, and somehow his body even seems more 'right' to me than it has been recently)
 
So, I just spoke with my DH, he says that Angel (Midnight Angel) was bouncing off of walls this morning while he was getting ready for work. I find it EXTREMELY interesting that the two cats I am giving the b12 (zobaline) to are both bouncing around as if they're young again. I haven't even been giving it every day, it's been more like every other, because the pills are a bit large and don't go down well with the pill pockets (I've actually been meaning to ask if it would be ok to split those... I have no idea how to know if a pill can be 'safely' split)

I do know that I do NOT want to start giving them all pills, so I am thinking I am going to buy the capsules and start putting it in the food for all of them. What I am now wondering is.... is it ok to not be giving it to them 'regularly' ? Like, maybe every other or every few days? I feel like it would do them all some good after seeing these effects with the only two getting it now.

ETA: Just wanted to point out, the reason I was giving Angel the zobaline is that she has also been weak at the back legs for a couple of years now...I had thought it was a normal part of aging (that's what I get for thinking.. or not thinking :/ ) and of course Froggii has been weak for months, presumably since the diabetes began. To see either of them jumping around and playing is astounding to me, and maybe I AM making an assumption about the b12 cause/effect, but I don't think so, since this happened on the same day, and they've both received the same number of pills at the same times since I got the b12..... This is the ONLY real difference for these two vs. the others, so if it were only the recent change in food, I should be seeing more of this from all of them I would think.
 
you can put the pills in water and melt them - then mix that into the food - and yes it's perfectly fine to give to them daily - and don't worry about giving too much - the cat will pee out what the body doesn't need.

and yes, you can split the pills - if you don't have a pill cutter - you can use a knife to cut them apart.
 
Some information on the benefits of B12. Probably more than you ever wanted to know! :roll:

From IBD kitties site. http://www.ibdkitties.net/B12.html
B12 is non-toxic, water soluble and has the largest and most complex chemical structure of all vitamins. The list
of benefits and symptoms of deficiencies are both long. There are no known side effects other than it can
produce occasional diarrhea, though rare and the benefits far outweigh the risks.

B12 helps to support adrenal function, maintain a healthy nervous system, aid in the production of DNA and
RNA, and the production of neurotransmitters. It affects the development and maintenance of red blood cells,
nerve cells and normal myelination (the fatty sheaths that cover and protect nerve endings). It’s needed to
prevent anemia, required for the proper digestion and absorption of food, and the metabolism of carbohydrates
and fats.

A B12 deficiency can cause poor cell formation in the digestive tract and lead to nausea, vomiting, loss of
appetite, poor absorption of food (malabsorption syndrome), constipation, gas, weight loss, fatigue, lethargy,
abdominal pain, and/or diarrhea. Absorption of B12 requires normal function of the stomach, pancreas and small
intestine. Sound familiar? These are the very symptoms that cats with IBD and other gastric disorders exhibit. A
b12 deficiency also inhibits and decreases the body’s ability to produce blood, increases blood cell destruction
and is very harmful to the nervous system which can cause neurological disorders and severe and sometimes
irreversible nerve damage. Because a healthy liver is able to store many years worth of B12, signs of deficiency
may not be obvious for a long time. Which may be why some cats seem to benefit even when they test negative
for deficiency.

To be absorbed in the body, B12 needs to combine with a substance called intrinsic factor. IF is produced by
your stomach lining where B12 from foods is released from its protein complex by hydrochloric acid and
enzymes. The secreted IF will bind to B12 and this combination will travel to the end of the small intestine which
then crosses the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. B12 is stored in the liver after being absorbed and excess
is excreted in the urine. If it’s not absorbed (ie due to malabsorption), it’s excreted in feces since it never leaves
the GI tract.

On PetPlace.com, they clearly state that a congenital B12 malabsorption syndrome has been reported in cats
(as well as some specific dog breeds). It also states that for dosing in cats, no good data is available and oral
treatment is unlikely to be of much benefit in malabsorption states (e.g. pancreatic disease interfering with the
production and release of pancreatic IF). This is why injections are used instead of pills. Injections will bypass
the stomach and go straight to the liver but the pills will have a long way to get there, will break down a lot
sooner and not have nearly the same affect.
http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/vi ... page1.aspx

Some risk factors for B12 deficiency are a weakened immune system and impaired white blood cells, gluten
allergies and/or sensitivities and helicobacter pylori infection (bacteria that can be common in IBD). Antacid, H2-
blockers, anticoagulants and potassium supplements can impair the absorption of B12, broad spectrum use of
antibiotics or anti-convulsants and parasites (specifically tapeworm). Large parasites like the beef tapeworm
compete for nutrients by robbing the body of micronutrients and vitamins.
 
Oh, cool! If I can just dissolve these that is wonderful, since I bought 3 bottles of them :D

And wow... yes, a lot of information, but I love it, thank you so much! I'm so excited, their next meals are gonna have a bit of magic mixed in :)
 
Yes- I actually put it in the water bowl that I 'refresh' her food with to soften. That way I can put the granuals in the food and then still have the water to moisten her food with and she will also drink out if it occasionally. (But rarely anymore since I hydrate her food plenty :lol: )
 
Its great they have so much energy! For Frog, it also shows the insulin is helping him metabolize his food and get energy- even if his BG isnt lowered. Maybe post on the PZI forum and see what they say about his dose. I dont see as many blues or greens as I would like but I am not a PZI expert.
 
I was planning to wait until tomorrow to ask in pzi, since that way he would have the .8 dose for a full 3 days before considering changing it again. I also have to consider the possibility that the insulin I have may be slightly less effective since I accidentally left it out once (in its little box, non lighted room, 68ish degrees (F) .... So, while he was seeming to need less for a bit, maybe he is getting the same effect from 'more' insulin now. I'm going to try to get more mid-cycle tests this weekend to really figure out where his 'nadir' is..... so far the data I have doesn't seem very conclusive..
The only 'conclusion' I am coming to right now is that it looks like his body is fighting me, not wanting the 'lower' numbers... which is entirely possible since I didn't get him to the vet for DX until far later than I should have. He was exhibiting symptoms for at LEAST 5 months before seeing a vet (couldn't be helped, my husband doesn't work in the winter, so there is NO extra money at that point, can't even take ourselves to the doctor) and he may well have been having issues prior to that which I may have missed since I have a whole carpet full of beasties (yes, too many, yes, but ... the alternative is not acceptable to me)

In reading thru some more posts here, I now realize that skipping shots altogether was a bad thing, and I won't be doing that anymore, so maybe that will help the crazy number cycles a bit too.
 
The only 'conclusion' I am coming to right now is that it looks like his body is fighting me, not wanting the 'lower' numbers... which is entirely possible since I didn't get him to the vet for DX until far later than I should have.

Good conclusion. His body is used to those higher numbers. That means, that when you give the insulin to lower his numbers, the liver panics and dumps glycogen into the bloodstream to raise those numbers higher. We call it 'liver training', teaching the body to understand those lower numbers are good and no need to panic.
 
Yea that's definitely what I was thinking..... Anyone have a 'time frame' perhaps of how much time would be 'normal' for this to go on before the liver realizes it finally has some help? Also, when you know that is definitely the problem (which we don't but atm I'm assuming) are there specific protocols to follow towards 'training' the liver?
 
Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but do you mean home to observe his behavior, and be able to notice if he has problems, or monitor like a curve to get numbers? I'll have my grandson again tomorrow, so I'll be here all day, but having free moments to take the cat into the bathroom to do our 'thing' isn't really something I can predict reliably (he's almost a year old)
 
I just think it's wise when you increase the dose to be around - to watch him and take a few tests. No hurry. You could wait if you want.
 
Too late, I started the 1 for tonights' pm shot, I will be here pretty much the whole weekend, and tho my hands will not be 'free' tomorrow, I'll do my best to get at least one or two tests in, but at the very least I'll be here with him in case something does go wonky, and I do have all the hypo stuff available should the need arise. (well, most, I don't have a feeding syringe, nor a rectal thingy/lube) but I am confident that if I need to get the karo into him, I can, one way or the other. Thank you Sue, for your input, your guidance has been invaluable.
 
The dose should be fine. I wouldn't expect any drastic lower numbers.

BTW, it's easiest, if you need to use syrup to either mix it with a little gravy of a higher carb food or rub it on his gums or face. But first, just regular carb food. Only if that doesn't bring the numbers up, then something higher carb.
 
I didn't do any testing last night, I fell asleep in my computer chair :o I did wake up, but all I did was check him (he was comfy and relaxed @ +5 so I just went to bed.. I will try to get some tests today, but I wonder which hours should I aim for?
 
alrighty, I'll do what I can, hopefully the munchkin will be cooperative.

ETA: Frog is in high spirits again this am, only not just him this time, 3 or 4 of them were running around like crazy fiends...they remind me of little horses galloping thru the house sometimes :P
 
I am really confused by these test results. A few days ago (5/1) on a .8 dose at +3 frogs' reading was barely lower (less than 20pts) than the pre shot, then the next day, same dose @ +3 was about 50pts lower... now here, a few days later with a slightly larger dose (1.0) he is over 100pts lower @+3? I realize it should be down by more since it is a larger dose, but is that normal, for it to be so erratic? I'm guessing it's somehow related to food/feeding, I do feed him frequent small meals (1/4 to 1/2 can ff roughly every 4 hours when he asks)

I'm going to do my best to get hourly readings for the next few hours to hopefully more clearly pinpoint the nadir.... my daughter gave me permission to let little monkey(my grandson) cry for a few minutes if he isn't amenable to being alone for a few minutes
 
Balancing grandkid and kitty - difficult for grandma. I can sympathize. :-D

Yes, i think just a little more insulin can make that difference in numbers. 50 points down at +3 vs. 100 points at +3 sounds pretty good. Little nervewracking to see a blue when you haven't seen one lately, but it's what we are looking for. :mrgreen: We won't worry until and unless we see 40-50.
 
Yea, I was happy to see the blue, just confused ... it feels like bad math :smile:

Oh! I just thought of something too... the way they were racing around here earlier, could the extra exercise be part of it? Now that I'm thinking about it, it makes perfect sense. Froggii got really wild, leaping up at the towers and clinging to the sides for a few moments, then huge leap off and tearing back thru the house again til he found the next thing to bounce off of. They stopped probably after about 7-8 minutes, but it looked like a pretty good workout to me.
 
it looks as if (at least today) his nadir is between +5 and +6 ..... should I continue hourly tests? Or just skip to the +9? (much rather skip, he's getting pretty annoyed with me interrupting his naps)
 
+9 should be fine. Some nice blues. Don't be surprised if he goes up at pmps. His body isn't used to those lower ranges and he may bounce.
 
Oh look someone else with a fur carpet just like at my house. \M/ Don't you feel sorry for some of these poor under catted folks with only a mere one or two kitties? :-D I mean where is the challenge in that? :lol:

Just thought I would swing by and welcome you to the FDMB family as apparently I missed your arrival awhile back...And I see Sue has you well under her wing, she will help you get the Frogman all figured out and feeling in tip top shape in no time. Sue & Carl are usually the ones that I yell for when we have a new sugarkitty on Prozinc, as I'm absolutely worthless when it comes to dosing advice on that one...My girl Autumn is a Levemir girl. But if Sue can teach you the ropes of your insulin no one can, she is one of the best. :-D

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
LOL... I have to be honest, I never meant to be a crazy cat lady, but once you're here, it's kind of like Hotel California (You can NEVER leave) :)

I actually sent you a pm Momma, because I had noticed your lovely carpet as well :) (our naming practices seem very similar as well, I feel so not alone here, I LOVE this board :lol: )


ETA: All fun aside, I am very disappointed on how high Frog's pmps is (410) after those lovely blues today, I had expected him to be in the purples as he was in the am... but red ..... boo :(
 
Not unexpected, Barb. Frog has gotten used to the higher 200-300s. When he went down to 120 yesterday, he bounced or rebounded:

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Rebound

Frustrating but common. The idea is that once his body gets used to the lower numbers,he will stop. It looks like he bounced within the same cycle yesterday. He might have gone lower last night for a bounce this am, or he may be a kitty whose bounces last a second cycle. More data will tell.

I'd just keep on with your one unit and see what today brings.
 
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