Happy Merry

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Rob & Harley (GA)

Rob & Harley (GA)

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Merry ChristmaQuanzaHaunaka and a very Happy New Year.

It's a crazy end to a crazy year. My New Years Resolution is to have no stressfull or difficult events in 2011. ;-)

My internet has been on and off for about a week, last night I got it fixed so I'm back.

My poor little civie Sam (St. Sabrina Princess Warrier, she's my mouser) either broke or dislocated one of her toes and when she did her claw punctured her paw pad and stuck in there. The vet wants to wait to let the puncture heal up and then look at the toe, it may have to be amputated. She came home with a splint on her leg which was to stay on until Thursday but lasted about 10 minutes. It takes me longer to put it on her than it takes her to get it off. So I scrubbed out the bathroom with disinfectant got a lb that uses pellets instead of litter (can't have litter stick to her wound), put her food and water in the bathroom and she is quarintined in there until further notice or the puncture on her paw pad heals up, I don't want it to get infected, she's doing pretty good in there, she's not crying or clawing to get out but will make a dash for the door when I open it. I'm trying to give her liquid Orbax once a day, I think of Judy every time, some goes in her, some goes on her, some goes on me. I'm using the clothes pin trick and that helps some.

Harley's bg was 123 this morning so no shot, Gator I know you used to shoot lower numbers any guidance on what I should know at these lower numbers?

On a personal note I hung Plum colored thermal insulated drapes in my living room and I love them, the color is so rich and the insulation keeps the drafty windows from lowering the temp in there.

We are expecting RAIN changing to freezing rain changing to snow going into the new year, nothing good can come of that. So the petting zoo and I will be hunkered up in the house for the weekend.

I hope everyone has a fabulous New Years weekend.

Robin
 
I have to read unrelated topics at an unrelated board to get my weather... Are you serious about this weekend?! I think my new years resolution is to use the same disdain for weather people as I do for dentists.... Blame shift time!

Poor Sam! If the puncture starts to look funny, or you are very adventurous, try soaking the foot in warm soapy water. My civvie Zoey used to get that smell good crappy litter stuck between her fingers and it would burn a hole in her skin. We would have to soak the kitty litter off of her foot, and then soak to relieve the nastiness going on because of the open wound. She never had to go to a vets office, and once or twice with the soaking a day for a few days (and a change of litter), and she's never had unhealthy fingers since.
 
Sorry Michelle, I'm not kidding about the weather, it's supposed to start raining on Thursday.

What kind of soap do you use to soak? I might try it, she has a little ferel blood in her, she has never been a lap cat or overly friendly but when she hurt her toe she came and got in my lap and wanted to be snuggled, that's when I saw the toe, it took me a while to get the clothes pins on her to even be able to look at her foot up close to see how bad it was but ever since she got home she is wanting to cuddle and sit in my lap so she might let me soak her foot.
 
I have some Dawn dish soap, I can give it a try, if it doesn't go well I may need it for myself.

I agree with you about the weather people and the dentists.
 
Rob & Harley said:
My New Years Resolution is to have no stressfull or difficult events in 2011. ;-)
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OMG, if only! Can you pass the magic wand my way once you have waved it over your household?

Sounds like your civvie is trying to get the stressors out of the way in 2010, so 2011 can be worry free? Hope her toe is better soon, sounds like a challenge. nailbite_smile
 
p.s. The only NY's resolution I've come up with so far is to play the lottery more. :lol: Can't win if you don't play right? So I am going for $5 a month. Wish me luck! :roll: I thought about the usual stuff like getting in shape, whatever. Didn't happen this year, so I'm thinking why bother making resolutions I already know I won't keep. Lottery? I'm thinking I can keep that resolution. :lol:
 
No problem!

I'll pass the magic wand on to you on New Years Eve and you can pass it on to anyone else that needs it so we all will have a wonderful year.
 
p.p.s. Just peeked at Harley's SS, wow is it purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty! Haven't looked at it in a while, you are keeping him in really awesome #s, YAY! Great job! :mrgreen: Kitty likes his insulin, eh? :? Can't ask for better #s though, really nice to see!

(Is his name spelled right in your sig though - SS link? :-| )
 
:lol: OMG, no his name is spelled wrong on his ss. All this time and I never noticed.

Thanks Joanna, any thoughts on where we go from here? His AMPS was 123 I didn't have time to wait and retest so no shot. I think Gator shot lower numbers but he doesn't have his ss up.

Actually I did try an experiment a while back to see if I could get his ps's lower but because I don't really want his nadir to go much lower than 50 I was afraid to push too hard.

Any thoughts?
 
Hi Robin,
Happy Merry to you, too! Count me in on those resolutions---especially if you figure out how to make it happen!

Sorry to hear about Sam's toe---how does a cat break a toe? What is that medicine you are giving? Hope it all gets better soon, and the snuggling doesn't stop.

Harley's numbers sound great.

I love plum colored things. I often call it wine colored or burgundy. I have couches of that color that match that shade in a rug I have. It is warm and rich and friendly. And keeping the cold out is good too.

Tell Sam that the snuggles don't have to end, but that she should get better fast, and tell Harley to keep demonstrating what a good team you are.

My daughter and her husband are leaving early tomorrow morning. We mostly don't have plans, tho we are staying till Monday. New Year's Eve we will probably have dinner out early, then come home and watch a movie. We rented "City Island", which we have heard good things about--tho I have a terrible track record with the movies I rent. I am just thinking that maybe we should rent "Tender Mercies". It's a Robert Duvall film about a country singer. It has great music in it (I think he wrote a lot of it) and a lovely story. My kids used to watch it years ago. I wonder if I would still like it.
 
Rob & Harley said:
Harley's bg was 123 this morning so no shot, Gator I know you used to shoot lower numbers any guidance on what I should know at these lower numbers?
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OK I shot at numbers as low as 100 at least. I used to shoot as low as 0.1u. Harley seems to have a bit larger deltas perhaps than H did. This is evident by the .7 units needed at 160+. It is really all about what nadir you are comfortable with. H had appetite issues so I was probably a little more cautious with him. I mean basically if you can keep him at 150 or below that is TR range and you can go as low as you have the courage to.

Sometimes too you will just give a dose that will prevent him from zooming too much for the next cycle.

Now the other half of this is the part about how do you know it's time to see if he wants to have a go at it on his own. And that's a hard decision because it takes time to get them back down again. And maybe that's where those supportive doses that are meant to head off the zooming come into play. They will give you an idea of how ready he is or not. And IMHO they are more gentle at weaning than just not giving any insulin and seeing where they go. More 0-60 in 30 seconds than 0-60 in 2.2. The supportive doses are also good for collecting data and can help you build up a little nerve.

It's funny I remember someone asking me why I was shooting at numbers below 150. And I've seen that recently in Health too - someone asking why they were shooting at low numbers. Some cats zoom and you have no choice but to try to at least head that off a little.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... XYwVFJ4M0E
Usually [but perhaps not always] when we would get into the lower territory it was also accompanied by a waning of the appetite. The appetite thing - especially by the time we got to ProZinc - was becoming a bigger issue.

I have out PZI Vet one too - I can PM you the link if you want. With PZI Vet, looks like I shot a 86 with a .4u one time :shock: And an 82 with .3, a 77 with .2. I don't know what my thought process was at the time. And no rebound IMHO the next cycles! I was a little bolder than I remember I guess. But again, H did not have as large of deltas as you get.
 
Hi Judy,

I'm looking for a magic wand now and will pass it around for all of us.

I have no idea how she broke her toe, the way it is twisted makes me think she got it caught on something and pulled. It is not a pretty sight. The medicine is an antibiotic. She's very small, just over 5lbs so she couldn't get the pills (which is a blessing because I would never be able to pill her twice a day) and because of her temperment they wanted to give her a shot of Covenia but since there is no antidote if they have a reaction to it I'm taking my chances with the liquid once a day.

If I had known how much of a difference the drapes would make I would have done it a long time ago. It changed the room from casual bungalow to a much more elegant warm cozy feeling room. At first I thought that it felt warmer in there because of the insulated backing which I'm sure it is but also feels warmer because of the deep color. It isn't really a wine or burgandy it's purpeler than those.

How nice your daughter wanted to get snowed in with you.
 
Thanks Gator, I would like to keep him below 150 but I don't really want his nadir below 50 to 60 (am I chicken on that?). It seems like when nadir is at 50 to 60 his ps's are around 150ish to 170ish.

I'm pretty sure his P is working some. Sometimes on a 160 he needs .7u and sometime he needs .3u it ebbs and flows gradually. Right now he is needing higher doses, except for this morning.
 
Not chicken at all - a little more nerve than I had. :smile:

But when you get a break and the PSs go lower you can *try* to capitalize on that by shooting something so he doesn't zoom off. Eventually you will get a better feel for that that amount is and how far you can really press things when you do get a break like that.
 
It would be easier if I could be home during the day to test.

I wanted to shoot something but without enough time to think it through I didn't. What would you have shot this morning?
 
The night of 12/19 is somewhat similar to this situation. I was just about to say .2 or .3 but I really looked at your SS and saw 12/06 and 12/7 :shock: where the next time you shot and shot very little you got some relatively big reactions . So I don't know that kind of throws a wrinkle into my theory.

The thought that always runs though the back of my head is that a cat that has food to eat is not going to hypo on .1u or .2u or maybe even .3u. But that is just me being bullish and really has no foundation in fact. But I can remember telling myself [perhaps foolishly] that on occasion when I would shoot something like that at night and go to sleep without testing him.
 
Merry ChristmaQuanzaHaunaka and a very Happy New Year to you too.

Sorry to hear about Sam. Hopefully her puncture will heal quickly and the toe won't need to be amputated.

Your drapes sound really pretty. I love it when something as simple as getting new drapes changes the whole feel of a room. Makes it feel like you're in a new house or something.

We're expecting a drop in temperature tomorrow night with snow Thursday - Saturday. I guess I can't complain because we've only had 2" of snow so far this season, which means we'll get nailed with Spring storms.

Harley's ss is looking pretty awesome. :-D
 
No great ideas here. I know when Bix was getting similar #s I was all nailbite_smile over how can I get the *best* #s, etc. etc. From this vantage point, looks to me like you are doing awesome, and my only advice would be "keep up the good work!!!" :mrgreen: . Seems to me if/when he is ready to go OTJ you will see that in the #s. You are clearly getting some perfect nadirs in there, so it's not for lack of time in good #s from what I can see. Not really sure you can do much better than you are.

I agree shooting on lower PSs makes sense for known zoomers. For instance if you know he'll be in yellows by +2 if he's 80 at PS and you don't shoot, then heck yeah, shoot on that 80. But that is ONLY if you know that (and only then if you know your onset point, know what that dose will do at that PS, etc.). [CAVEAT :-D Newbies DON'T do this! Stick with a no-shoot of at least 150, and make sure you have data to support safely shooting at that level.]

If you are interested in trying out shooting on lower PSs, I would try what we do when lowering from say a 200 to a 150 PS. If you get a 130, you try something you feel comfortable with, and see what happens. I tried that a little with Bix, and never really got results that I liked. I'm not sure if it was b/c I was a chicken with the doses on lower PSs, or if there is a legit reason not to shoot on lower #s (I think it's Dr. H who believes that if you shoot on #s below a certain level, their pancreas thinks it doesn't have to do anything, and that can interfere with healing).

Ultimately I found that I will shoot on something like a 130+ if we are well past 12 hours (like at +24), and I figure he needs the insulin at that point. And I pretty much don't shoot on non-diabetic #s (my cutoff is 120/125-ish). Bix is usually not a zoomer, and I have found when I shoot on something low, it's just nailbite_smile for me, so now I mostly don't do it. ECID, and EBID (bean - is that how we say it?)

I don't think you are being chicken not to go for nadirs lower than 50/60. IMO #s lower than that are dangerous. While 40 may not be a hypo-hypo #, I think it's playing w/fire. With Bix and my cat meter I could typically see him eating heavily if I got him below 75 (which in my mind is equivalent to 45 on a human meter), so after I connected the dots on that one, I tried to keep him at 80 or slightly above (in my mind, 50 on a human meter). I didn't stress over something a couple points lower than that, but IMO why play with fire if you don't have to. 50, 60, 70, 80 on a human meter, I'd say anything in there is awesome for a nadir.

Here is a TT thread I found interesting a while back that seems relevant. Can't say it actually helped me much in knowing what to do, but still food for thought: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 500,591500
 
Thanks all, Harley's PMPS was 161, the last time we went 24 hours with out insulin I shot a .2u into a 170 and got a 120ish for his AMPS so that was too much insulin, this time on 161 I shot .1u, we'll see what this does.

It makes me nervous to shoot the lower numbers because when I get the lower numbers I assume his P is working and he doesn't need as much to keep him even. But as we all know this is an ever changing picture.

NEWBIES do not do what I'm doing. Unless you have enough data to support these decisions.

Sam's toe has a nice big scab on it but it still looks strange. She seems pretty happy in the bathroom as she is a loner anyway. I am keeping her in quarintine for at least another day to let her heal. She's lovin the snuggling, I sit with her and let her soak up the lovin until she walks away.

The drapes are fabulous, I didn't know that I was a drapes kind of gal. I got them to keep the cold out from the drafty old windows. They have changed the whole room, now I have to paint.

Judy, I checked the packaging and the color of the drapes is wine. :oops:

Minnesota has broken a record, we have had more snow this December than any other December on record.
 
Rob & Harley said:
The drapes are fabulous, I didn't know that I was a drapes kind of gal. I got them to keep the cold out from the drafty old windows. They have changed the whole room, now I have to paint.
Judy, I checked the packaging and the color of the drapes is wine. :oops:
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Is this supposed to demonstrate the color? :lol:

Be careful--the drapes led to painting--what will the painting lead to??? It's always been my experience that each change makes you think of something else!

An insulin question: you say .2U was too much. I assume that is because you want a number above 150 at your next PS? then what is the process for going OTJ? I mean, you eventually want numbers under 120, correct? Isn't there going to be some point at which you are waiting longer and longer to shoot? Or do you somehow want to work that out to be when you can be home to follow the numbers so as not to go too long without insulin? This seems to be a great time for Harley!
 
Ditto to Judy's question :mrgreen: I wouldn't assume the 120 PS means the dose was too high. Yes if you have a cat with clear high #s and you think a 12/12 strategy is the way to go. Not necessarily though if your cat is in as good #s as Harley is. In that case I would say if you got a good nadir, then you got the dose right, and if the following PS is 120, woohoo! Of course if the nadir was low that negates that, but if he's not a zoomer, the 120 may not indicate a low nadir (which it might indicate in a cat coming down off a 300 or something with more zoom factor).

With Bix I reached a point where I had to decide whether to shoot for 12/12 - which in his case almost guaranteed so-so nadirs as he was not dropping/zooming much at all at that point. Or, going for the good nadir, even though it almost certainly for him meant he wouldn't be shootable at +12. I played around with both and ultimately went for the good nadirs. Not that it really worked ohmygod_smile since I had difficulty hitting the nadirs, and then the shot timing was so variable it became hard to catch him at the right point, but I think the idea was sound. Ultimately though if your schedule only works for 12/12, then you are probably better picking that route and keeping the #s good like they are, and not worrying about super-perfect. :YMSIGH:

I also found I got really mixed results on low doses like 0.2. Sometimes it was clearly not enough insulin, and other times it looked to be just right or even too much. In hindsight, I think perhaps that kind of dose was essentially irrelevant, at least for Bix, if it looked like enough or too much, that was maybe pancreas action shining through. If Harley's panc is sputtering, I think the doses are supporting more healing - of course I wouldn't shoot a BIG dose, but I think if you shot something like 0.4 and Mr. P got to take a rest, vs. you shot 0.2 and Mr. P pitched in the other half of it, but then got tired from the effort.... well, hmmm, I really don't know what I'm talking about here :roll: b/c I just don't know how it actually works.
 
p.s. Steve & Jock off the top of my head is one I am pretty sure coaxed at least one kitty into going OTJ after being on insulin something like 4 years. I recall a post on Health several months ago where he advised someone on what to do with #s similar to Harley's - lower PSs and stuff but not quite seeming to be headed OTJ. I didn't bookmark it though, but if I can find it (got to run now, so maybe later), I will post the link.
 
Yes Gator and the dome continues to fail, they were afraid of another collapse so they took a shot gun and blew a hole through another panel to releive the pressure.

Judy, no the drape color is much prettier than my red face for not knowing it was wine colored. :lol:
And your warning is too late, after the painting comes pulling up the old carpet and refinishing the hard wood floors and then replacing some old furniture. I've already bought ladder bookcases and I'm eyeing a new flat screen TV. That sure happened fast didn't it. I wasn't even looking for drapes, they just happened.

Insulin, honestly I think I've tried almost everything. I wish I had kept better notes in the comments explaining what and why I did things. As for the .2u being too much, he had gone without insulin for 24 hours and I shot the .2u into a 170 and got a 120ish. Technically 120 is a non diabetic number. Right now with him hovering around 150 to 160 I'm just fine tunning the dose to keep him in those numbers hoping he'll decide to go OTJ one day. But I want to take the next step whatever that is. I would like to read that thread from Steve & Jock.
 
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