Going to start testing

[chuckstables]

Hi folks,

So i decided i would TRY to start testing. Ordered a bravo meter; should have it this week.

Here’s the problem; he HATES me touching his ears or head (if i get too close to his eyes he pulls away; he doesnt like the warm compress i use daily to clean his blocked tear duct). He’s somewhat okay with me touching his paws, i can sometimes cut his nails.

I’m just scared he’s gonna hate me. It’s so nice having my old cat back; i forgot how much energy he actually used to have. He’s been like this for potentially years unfortunately. I don’t want him scared of me.

Any tips?

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

Get him to associate testing with a favorite treat! Give lots and lots of pets and praise, and stay calm as your pheromones change when anxious and cats can smell that. It might also be a good idea to start with having your cat rest on something warm too, and gently pet the backs of his ears. If it's really difficult to get him to let you touch his ears full stop, any time he lets you touch his ears, give him a treat and work your way up from there. My cat adores bonito flakes and perks up when he sees me get the bag.

When Cadmium was first diagnosed, I was so scared he hated me or resented me for poking him so much. Cats may dislike or feel discomfort or distrust a person who abuses them- but what really helped me was reminding myself that cats don't really hold the capacity to resent someone. Anything that may seem like that is projection. Eventually, he will associate the entire process with tasty things and feeling even better, as you're testing to keep him safe!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Testing can be done on the ears or the paw pads. I thought the ears were easier but like your kitty, some cat's do not like their ears to be touched. One thing to keep in mind about the ears, though -- there are fewer pain nerves located along the edge of the ear.

 

[chuckstables]

Get him to associate testing with a favorite treat! Give lots and lots of pets and praise, and stay calm as your pheromones change when anxious and cats can smell that. It might also be a good idea to start with having your cat rest on something warm too, and gently pet the backs of his ears. If it's really difficult to get him to let you touch his ears full stop, any time he lets you touch his ears, give him a treat and work your way up from there. My cat adores bonito flakes and perks up when he sees me get the bag.

When Cadmium was first diagnosed, I was so scared he hated me or resented me for poking him so much. Cats may dislike or feel discomfort or distrust a person who abuses them- but what really helped me was reminding myself that cats don't really hold the capacity to resent someone. Anything that may seem like that is projection. Eventually, he will associate the entire process with tasty things and feeling even better, as you're testing to keep him safe!

Okay, i’ll try that, thanks. I’m waiting for the bravo meter and strips to arrive. I have lancets. I see that sam was diagnosed just a week or so after cadmium was! Hows cadmium doing?

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

And I know you just said he hates his ears touched but warming up the ear to get the blood circulating helps a ton. Start with the larger lancets like 26 or 28 and do do the treat immediately after even if you couldn’t get any blood out. The point is to build up positive reinforcement. What really helps me to was using a flashlight so I could see the ear and the veins well and know where I was pricking. If you’re going to try the ear, here’s what you’re aiming for:

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Some folks prick the outside of the ear but I always thought the inside with Kerr fur was easier

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

Okay, i’ll try that, thanks. I’m waiting for the bravo meter and strips to arrive. I have lancets. I see that sam was diagnosed just a week or so after cadmium was! Hows cadmium doing?

He's doing so much better after starting insulin! For a bit he had a bounce to his readings, meaning in the morning it would be ridiculously high- but then calm down and level out. A bounce happens from the liver being used to higher levels than normal so once his blood sugar was addressed, the liver thought he was going into a hypoglycemia episode. Since starting, he's regaining weight, fur is a lot softer, and he's been so much more playful. He even got his sassy attitude back again! He did get a bit lower than I would have liked today, but after eating some more he's leveling out.

At first though, he seemed absolutely exhausted and just wanted to be able to rest. I lowered his dose a bit then, but thats around when I realized his body was acting like it wasnt getting any insulin once I could finally test him. After consulting with the vet, it got increased back to his initial 1U doses.

The most frightening part of all this is the fact that diabetes can make your body feel like it's starving, no matter how much you eat. And it was very hard to see him like that. But seeing him return to a kitten-like level of energy and brightness makes it all worth it

 

[chuckstables]

He's doing so much better after starting insulin! For a bit he had a bounce to his readings, meaning in the morning it would be ridiculously high- but then calm down and level out. A bounce happens from the liver being used to higher levels than normal so once his blood sugar was addressed, the liver thought he was going into a hypoglycemia episode. Since starting, he's regaining weight, fur is a lot softer, and he's been so much more playful. He even got his sassy attitude back again! He did get a bit lower than I would have liked today, but after eating some more he's leveling out.

At first though, he seemed absolutely exhausted and just wanted to be able to rest. I lowered his dose a bit then, but thats around when I realized his body was acting like it wasnt getting any insulin once I could finally test him. After consulting with the vet, it got increased back to his initial 1U doses.

The most frightening part of all this is the fact that diabetes can make your body feel like it's starving, no matter how much you eat. And it was very hard to see him like that. But seeing him return to a kitten-like level of energy and brightness makes it all worth it

That’s awesome! I’m so happy for both of you. Sam was the exact same; problem is initially he was on Caninsulin. He was on 2 units 2x a day; it wasn’t controlling him anywhere near enough. He gained weight though (he went from 12.5 lbs in 2021 to 9.5 lbs when he was diagnosed), but he was still drinking 500 mls of water a day.

I switched vets as i was livid that i was charged 600 dollars for an exam and blood work. My new vet immediately did a fructosamine test, it was 560 i believe? So we put him on Lantus. Now he’s on 3 IU 2x daily and the difference is incredible.

He now drinks 200 mls or so a day at most (plus water from wet food). He’s back at 12 lbs, and he’s acting like my sam again. But it took a while for him to adapt to not being hyperglycaemic.

I also noticed his fur improve. He’s a long haired cat (we joke that he has pants since his leg fur is all puffed out and it looks like hes wearing sweatpants), and after starting the lantus his coat is so much softer and denser. He also grooms more and is willing to sit down for more than 5 minutes. Before starting he was drinking a litre of water per day; so every 10 minutes he’d get up and go drink water. He’d urinate every hour or two; i was going through a 40 lb bag of wood pellets every 3 days.

It still bothers me that i didn’t act sooner. His blood glucose levels at diagnosis were 30 mmol/l, so like 540 in American units. He was emaciated. Because the changes were so gradual i didn’t notice until one day it hit me.

 

[chuckstables]

And I know you just said he hates his ears touched but warming up the ear to get the blood circulating helps a ton. Start with the larger lancets like 26 or 28 and do do the treat immediately after even if you couldn’t get any blood out. The point is to build up positive reinforcement. What really helps me to was using a flashlight so I could see the ear and the veins well and know where I was pricking. If you’re going to try the ear, here’s what you’re aiming for:
View attachment 65749

Thanks for the diagram; i’ve started touching his ears gently and giving him a treat if he doesn’t pull back as much. All i can do is try my best. If i’m persistent i’m sure he’ll eventually chill about it. I wish i didn’t have to clean his eye though; i use a warm compress to clean the gunk due to the tear duct. It makes him not thrilled when my hands get near to his face

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

That’s awesome! I’m so happy for both of you. Sam was the exact same; problem is initially he was on Caninsulin. He was on 2 units 2x a day; it wasn’t controlling him anywhere near enough. He gained weight though (he went from 12.5 lbs in 2021 to 9.5 lbs when he was diagnosed), but he was still drinking 500 mls of water a day.

I switched vets as i was livid that i was charged 600 dollars for an exam and blood work. My new vet immediately did a fructosamine test, it was 560 i believe? So we put him on Lantus. Now he’s on 3 IU 2x daily and the difference is incredible.

He now drinks 200 mls or so a day at most (plus water from wet food). He’s back at 12 lbs, and he’s acting like my sam again. But it took a while for him to adapt to not being hyperglycaemic.

I also noticed his fur improve. He’s a long haired cat (we joke that he has pants since his leg fur is all puffed out and it looks like hes wearing sweatpants), and after starting the lantus his coat is so much softer and denser. He also grooms more and is willing to sit down for more than 5 minutes. Before starting he was drinking a litre of water per day; so every 10 minutes he’d get up and go drink water. He’d urinate every hour or two; i was going through a 40 lb bag of wood pellets every 3 days.

It still bothers me that i didn’t act sooner. His blood glucose levels at diagnosis were 30 mmol/l, so like 540 in American units. He was emaciated. Because the changes were so gradual i didn’t notice until one day it hit me.

Yeah my vet said that Caninsulin/Vetsulin is only really effective in dogs, which sucks that it doesnt work as well in cats because its so much cheaper here! The lack of effectiveness in cats why Cadmium was put on ProZinc. Looking at the labs they ran for him, he had blood glucose levels of 395mg/dL (or 21.9mmol/L).

Try to not be so hard on yourself, I know its easier said than done, but remember that you and Sam have gone through a lot in such a short time. The important thing is that you're working through it together, and that you're doing the best you can to help him recover. At first I thought the reason why Cadmium had elevated thirst was because of him being constipated!

We have two other cats, and one of them is also a long haired fuzzy man that we joke about having pants too!! His name is J'zargo, and we found him in the basement of our apartment unit and he STUNK SOOOOO BAD. So he's now our stinky garbage boy whom we adore, lol!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Home testing
About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Here is the link to set up your spreadsheet, if you need help just ask, we have a member who will be happy to set it up for you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/spreadsheets-tech-support-testing-area.6/
Read all the yellow stickys

When you get your meter can you please add the name of it to your signature
Tap on your name up top ,tap on signature and add it, also you need to pick one of the dosing methods you want to follow for lantus, and sdd that also they will tell you when to either increase or decrease
We adjust the dose by how low the insulin is taking them, not the pre shots
Link to dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/



About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

 

[chuckstables]

Here is the link to set up your spreadsheet, if you need help just ask, we have a member who will be happy to set it up for you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/spreadsheets-tech-support-testing-area.6/
Read all the yellow stickys

When you get your meter can you please add the name of it to your signature
Tap on your name up top ,tap on signature and add it, also you need to pick one of the dosing methods you want to follow for lantus, and sdd that also they will tell you when to either increase or decrease
We adjust the dose by how low the insulin is taking them, not the pre shots
Link to dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/



About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Okay, thank you. Unfortunately on weeks where i have to work in the office i won’t be able to test after injection, as i wake up late and need to get going. With regards to my vet; what should I tell her? That i’m just taking control of his dosing and this is why?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Okay, thank you. Unfortunately on weeks where i have to work in the office i won’t be able to test after injection, as i wake up late and need to get going. With regards to my vet; what should I tell her? That i’m just taking control of his dosing and this is why?

I would tell your vet you are going to start home testing to see how the 1 unit of lantus is working for him. Are you still giving 1 unit of lantus?
The days you have to go into the office can you wake up a little earlier to test him , feed him and give him the insulin as long as his BG is high enough, then see if you can at least test him again at +1 ( one hour after giving insulin)
If that test is lower than his AMPS BG you can leave out some food for him ,you might have to leave out a higher carb food .
You can also get an auto feeder and set it to open at different times until you get home.
You don't want to feed him 2 hours before you test first thing in the AM and the PM because you don't want his BG to be food influenced

As soon as you get your meter I would start home testing so you can see how the insulin is working for him and how low his BG is dropping

We adjust the doses by how low they drop not by his AMPS or PMPS
What are you feeding him now?
Can you add it to your signature we need to know
Also can you add From Canada also

Do you have med and high carb wet food for your hypo kit

Such as
Do you have any med and high carb wet food and some honey?
Such as

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.

Friskies is also fine just look at the food chart for some med and high carb options

@chuckstables

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Here is your first post that you did ,you might want to look it over in case some of your questions were answered
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newly-diagnosed-diabetic-cat.268287/

By the way Sam is a very handsome boy

Here is the link to read all about lantus ,read all the yellow stickys especially the two dosing methods to choose one, they will tell you when you need to increase or decrease his dose and how much testing you can do.
You want to scatter the times that you test , like filling in pieces of a puzzle
Once you start testing and gather some info the members here can look at your spreadsheet
@chuckstables

 

[Henry’s Mom]

Hello! Just replying to this post - I am taking Henry to a new vet this Saturday because I am really disappointed in how our vet (for 25 years) handles all our animals. Should have switched a long time ago but now that Henry is diabetic I do not want to take any chances. Should I ask our new vet to switch Henry to Lantus? Based on what I’ve been reading here, Vetsulin does not seem appropriate. Lastly, very happy that Sam is improving. Gives me hope with Henry.

That’s awesome! I’m so happy for both of you. Sam was the exact same; problem is initially he was on Caninsulin. He was on 2 units 2x a day; it wasn’t controlling him anywhere near enough. He gained weight though (he went from 12.5 lbs in 2021 to 9.5 lbs when he was diagnosed), but he was still drinking 500 mls of water a day.

I switched vets as i was livid that i was charged 600 dollars for an exam and blood work. My new vet immediately did a fructosamine test, it was 560 i believe? So we put him on Lantus. Now he’s on 3 IU 2x daily and the difference is incredible.

He now drinks 200 mls or so a day at most (plus water from wet food). He’s back at 12 lbs, and he’s acting like my sam again. But it took a while for him to adapt to not being hyperglycaemic.

I also noticed his fur improve. He’s a long haired cat (we joke that he has pants since his leg fur is all puffed out and it looks like hes wearing sweatpants), and after starting the lantus his coat is so much softer and denser. He also grooms more and is willing to sit down for more than 5 minutes. Before starting he was drinking a litre of water per day; so every 10 minutes he’d get up and go drink water. He’d urinate every hour or two; i was going through a 40 lb bag of wood pellets every 3 days.

It still bothers me that i didn’t act sooner. His blood glucose levels at diagnosis were 30 mmol/l, so like 540 in American units. He was emaciated. Because the changes were so gradual i didn’t notice until one day it hit me.

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

Hello! Just replying to this post - I am taking Henry to a new vet this Saturday because I am really disappointed in how our vet (for 25 years) handles all our animals. Should have switched a long time ago but now that Henry is diabetic I do not want to take any chances. Should I ask our new vet to switch Henry to Lantus? Based on what I’ve been reading here, Vetsulin does not seem appropriate. Lastly, very happy that Sam is improving. Gives me hope with Henry.

It ultimately depends on what is accessible to you- Cadmium is on ProZinc which would be another option! But yeah, Vetsulin isn't the most reliable for kitties, as it has an 8hr effective window while ProZinc (and I think Lantus? not sure) has a 12hr window!

 

[Henry’s Mom]

It ultimately depends on what is accessible to you- Cadmium is on ProZinc which would be another option! But yeah, Vetsulin isn't the most reliable for kitties, as it has an 8hr effective window while ProZinc (and I think Lantus? not sure) has a 12hr window!

Thank you for replying! I am definitely going to consult with Henry’s new vet on Saturday about switching to Lantus.

 

[chuckstables]

Thank you for replying! I am definitely going to consult with Henry’s new vet on Saturday about switching to Lantus.

Prozinc and Lantus both seem to work equally well based on a video i watched summarizing the state of current research. Both last 12 hrs in cats. Only difference is cost; for me Prozinc costs 105 dollars per 10 ml, lantus is 78, but lantus has 2.5x more units of insulin per bottle. You can also store lantus up to 6 months if kept in the fridge and sterile, so the cost is a lot less for me. Only problem is some vets refuse to prescribe it, as it isn’t approved for use in felines (it’s used off label). If your vet refuses to prescribe it, consider finding another vet.

My vet refuses to prescribe it. He also charged us 50% more than the vet i ended up going to, who immediately prescribed it.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

If a vet refuses to prescribe Lantus, they've not done any continuing education on feline diabetes in well over a decade. The American Animal Hospital Assn has been recommending Lantus for some time. Their guidelines for the treatment of feline and canine diabetes are on the web for public consumption. Back when Gabby was diagnosed in 2009, using Lantus in cats was relatively new. I brought a copy of the vet journal publication on the tight regulation protocol with me to the vet's office. She'd not yet seen it and she then converted the entire office to using Lantus and following TR. There's no excuse for a vet to be less educated than we are about which insulin is effective in cats.

Given your comment about testing (and I know you won't want to hear this), Gabby was a kitty who was prone to early, fast drops in numbers. She also had an early nadir. Her shot time was at 5:00. I'm not an early person but it was the only way I could monitor for a couple of hours before I left for work. That strategy may not work for you but it's something you may want to consider.

As for Sam hating you, it's unlikely. Take a look at Gabby's spreadsheet. I tested a lot -- really, a lot. She didn't hate me. The trick is associating testing with treats and lots of positive reinforcement. Many people here will tell you their cats go running to their testing spot and purr up a storm. Keep to a routine -- where you test, giving treats, etc. They honestly begin to realize that what you're doing helps them to feel better.

 

[chuckstables]

I would tell your vet you are going to start home testing to see how the 1 unit of lantus is working for him. Are you still giving 1 unit of lantus?
The days you have to go into the office can you wake up a little earlier to test him , feed him and give him the insulin as long as his BG is high enough, then see if you can at least test him again at +1 ( one hour after giving insulin)
If that test is lower than his AMPS BG you can leave out some food for him ,you might have to leave out a higher carb food .
You can also get an auto feeder and set it to open at different times until you get home.
You don't want to feed him 2 hours before you test first thing in the AM and the PM because you don't want his BG to be food influenced

As soon as you get your meter I would start home testing so you can see how the insulin is working for him and how low his BG is dropping

We adjust the doses by how low they drop not by his AMPS or PMPS
What are you feeding him now?
Can you add it to your signature we need to know
Also can you add From Canada also

Do you have med and high carb wet food for your hypo kit

Such as
Do you have any med and high carb wet food and some honey?
Such as

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.

Friskies is also fine just look at the food chart for some med and high carb options

@chuckstables

Thanks for the advice. My family had to put Sam’s brother Theo to sleep. He had a large mass in his stomach and intestinal walls, causing fluid buildup in the abdomen. We tried; we really did. Gave prednisone to reduce the fluid/swelling, a strong appetite stimulant. In the 5 days post diagnosis he peed 3 times, none of them in the box. He ate 2 treats and only drank/ate a water/wetfood mixture my folks forced him to eat with a syringe. He had lost 1 pound in 5 days. My parents and I chose to put him to sleep as we couldn’t have him waste away in pain (which he was in; he always adjusted his sitting posture to put less pressure on his abdomen).

He went peacefully. I hugged him, got him purring like crazy. They gave him the sedative, put in the IV and my dad and I held him as he left. I didn’t think it’d be that quick. I’m so emotional right now. I’m angry, depressed, and confused. And i can’t even go over to my parents and hug them and cry together because they’re still covid positive. It’s just kinda screwed everything up. I’ll be testing him for sure, but i’m still waiting for the bravo meter to arrive. Was delayed.

I went out and bought high/med carb wet food. I also have a syringe, corn syrup, an airtight mason jar of 18% carb dry food (purina proplanDM; he loves it, i give it only as a treat now), and his temptations treats which are high carb I believe. Only thing i don’t have is a bulb syringe and lube and glucose. He is on 3 units 2x per day of Lantus. Going in for a fructosamine test tomorrow; if he’s below 390 i think the vet said she’d not up the dose. Last was like 420 or 430 i think when he was on 2.


He’s now on the Friskies Chicken Pate. I was told that’s like 7% carbs, so that should be fine honestly. It’s affordable, costs me 1.60 per day to feed him vs 8 for the purina proplan DM pate. I’m trying to save money; i’m gonna have to renew my mortgage next year, and i’ve been enjoying 2.4% interest rates for 4 years now. At today’s rates my mortgage payments go up by 375 a month….

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

It’s always very hard having to put one of our furry friends to sleep. But it is the kindest thing to do and the greatest gift you can give them. You all obvious did all you could to help him and he knew that.
He sounded happy and secure when he left and that is the main thing.
It’s always hardest for those left behind.

 

[chuckstables]

It’s always very hard having to put one of our furry friends to sleep. But it is the kindest thing to do and the greatest gift you can give them. You all obvious did all you could to help him and he knew that.
He sounded happy and secure when he left and that is the main thing.
It’s always hardest for those left behind.

Thanks. It just came out of nowhere; last month Theo was fine. We all thought Sam would pass first because of how unhealthy he was before diagnosis. We saved him only for his brother to die of a rare painful aggressive cancer.

But yes; he was at peace. He seemed to know his time was up. He struggled to get up apparently, but when he saw me he got up and bunted and nuzzled me. My little pocket cat loved me. I’d carry him and sam in different bathrobe pockets for the first month or so of their time with us. My folks joked i was the cat taxi. We’ll always have memories with Theo; i’m glad he’s no longer suffering. I hope I can see him, cupid, simba and moofie again one day.

I still have Sam though. Gotta go get his gabapentin; he needs it before he goes to the vet so he doesnt flip out. He’s going in tmrw for his Fructosamine test. Last one was still above the ideal range (430 or so i think), so they bumped him from 2 IU to 3 IU. Vet said worst case scenario he needs a bump to 3.5 IU’s, but she thinks that 3 will bring him within range.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I still have Sam though. Gotta go get his gabapentin; he needs it before he goes to the vet so he doesnt flip out. He’s going in tmrw for his Fructosamine test. Last one was still above the ideal range (430 or so i think), so they bumped him from 2 IU to 3 IU. Vet said worst case scenario he needs a bump to 3.5 IU’s, but she thinks that 3 will bring him within range.

Chuck there is really no reason to take Sam for another fructosamine test
I copied this that an experienced member said about it


The fructosamine is not the best indicator of blood sugar and whether he needs an increase. It's also a different indicator than blood sugars. Reference Ranges for Fructosamine Test Fructosamine is an average over two weeks, but can't tell you if he's high all the time, or a combination or really low and really high. That's one of many reasons we recommend home testing his blood glucose. You want to catch those lows that would tell you he needs less insulin. Even with spot BG testing at the vet, cats can be a lot higher at the vet due to stress.


We do not base how much insulin should be given going by the Pre shots, we base them on how low the dose is taking them, believe me.
That's why you need to read about the 2 dosing methods you want to follow ,they will let you know when an increase or decrease is needed

Plus we do not increase doses by whole units or half units
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units
The fructosamine is usually done first thing when you bring you cat to the vet to see if he's diabetic
Please tell read the 2 dosing methods to follow for lantus so you can see which one would be good for you to follow
Don't waist your money on another fructosamine test

Link to dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110

 

[chuckstables]

Chuck there is really no reason to take Sam for another fructosamine test
I copied this that an experienced member said about it


The fructosamine is not the best indicator of blood sugar and whether he needs an increase. It's also a different indicator than blood sugars. Reference Ranges for Fructosamine Test Fructosamine is an average over two weeks, but can't tell you if he's high all the time, or a combination or really low and really high. That's one of many reasons we recommend home testing his blood glucose. You want to catch those lows that would tell you he needs less insulin. Even with spot BG testing at the vet, cats can be a lot higher at the vet due to stress.


We do not base how much insulin should be given going by the Pre shots, we base them on how low the dose is taking them, believe me.
That's why you need to read about the 2 dosing methods you want to follow ,they will let you know when an increase or decrease is needed

Plus we do not increase doses by whole units or half units
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units
The fructosamine is usually done first thing when you bring you cat to the vet to see if he's diabetic
Please tell read the 2 dosing methods to follow for lantus so you can see which one would be good for you to follow
Don't waist your money on another fructosamine test

Link to dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110

Fair enough; problem is I don’t have a meter yet. Canada post sucks. I’ve cancelled the appt, will wait until the meter arrives

You gotta tailor the treatment regimen to the client; when I first saw this vet I wasn’t in a place to do blood testing, as I was drinking myself into an early grave and waking up on the floor. I was depressed, severely alcoholic, and broke.

Now i’m not, and i’m at a place where I can start testing (I still drink waaay too much, 200 ml’s of vodka a night, but far less than the half liter of vodka per night I was at 3 months ago, I got a large raise at work and have rental income coming in). I guess my point is that while it might not have been ideal or according to a rigorous protocol; it was the best I could do and my vet knew that and advised me appropriately on what to look out for and how to treat it (hypoglycaemia)

I’ll talk to the vet tomorrow about the testing; she had brought it up as an option the first time we met, but i turned it down (again; raging alcoholics shouldn’t be doing blood tests). Let her know what i’ll be doing; she’ll no doubt support it. I had made this appt a month ago before i decided i’d try testing.

 

[chuckstables]

Okay, so! Good news. My meter arrived! Gonna test him tonight. Also; i am less of a raging alcoholic now. Been steadily reducing my drinking, so thats a plus; down to 1/3rd of what i was at 3 months ago.

Anyways; yay me. I’ll set up my spreadsheet tonight. Not sure honestly how often i CAN test him, that’s kind of up to him i suppose. Curious to see what his levels tomorrow are. I’ll test him before his dose tonight and post it in the spreadsheet.

I also have a hypo kit now. Corn syrup, a syringe, and 4 cans of gravy lovers fancy feast, plus some of the 18% carb dry food in a sealed mason jar. For the bulb syringe; do i need to buy glucose solution? I’m assuming you can’t just administer corn syrup intrarectally.

 

[chuckstables]

Okay; so when i got home today sam was freaking out crying for food. He hadnt eaten much this morning, thought it was enough to shoot. I gave him some higher carb dry food and 1/2 a can of wetfood when i got home. An hour later and i tested him for the first time……

Aaaaand, he’s at 252 (14 mmols/l). He’s set to have his shot in an hour, i’ll test again then to make sure and start a spreadsheet. He didnt mind it much honestly. Barely felt it.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Well done getting the tests started.
I’m wondering if the 3 units is too high a dose. Try and get some mid cycle tests in so we can see how low the dose is taking Sam.
Do you have an auto timed feeder to leave food in for when you are not there? A lot of us use them and find them invaluable.

 

[chuckstables]

Well done getting the tests started.
I’m wondering if the 3 units is too high a dose. Try and get some mid cycle tests in so we can see how low the dose is taking Sam.
Do you have an auto timed feeder to leave food in for when you are not there? A lot of us use them and find them invaluable.

I’ll grab one, but in hindsight he barely ate anything. He’s very food motivated and has always been super vocal about food. I work from home tmrw; i’ll test him around 3pm (between doses).

 

[chuckstables]

So i couldnt get any blood when i tried to test him again. Must’ve poked the poor guy six times. Gave him lots of treats after; doubting whether this is possible for him.

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

So i couldnt get any blood when i tried to test him again. Must’ve poked the poor guy six times. Gave him lots of treats after; doubting whether this is possible for him.

It definitely has a bit of a learning curve to it, but with practice it gets easier in multiple ways. Not only do you feel more confident and know what to do/how much blood is needed, Sam will get more used to it, and his ears will generate more capillaries and will give a good sample with less urging/poking. Cats can also tell when you get frustrated, but aren't quite sure as to why! Just take things one attempt at a time and maintain trust with food, and you'll get the hang of it

 

[chuckstables]

It definitely has a bit of a learning curve to it, but with practice it gets easier in multiple ways. Not only do you feel more confident and know what to do/how much blood is needed, Sam will get more used to it, and his ears will generate more capillaries and will give a good sample with less urging/poking. Cats can also tell when you get frustrated, but aren't quite sure as to why! Just take things one attempt at a time and maintain trust with food, and you'll get the hang of it

He was crying, made me sad . Gave him 3 treats after; doesn’t have any obvious veins i can see. I need to do some more research on the best place. I’m afraid he’ll start to become caregiver avoidant; if he does the testing stops. Our bond is more important than the moderate benefit that testing gives.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

He was crying, made me sad . Gave him 3 treats after; doesn’t have any obvious veins i can see.

Try holding one of those small flashlights in your mouth, When I test Tyler I really don't see the veins , I just aim for the sweet spot
Did you get either 26 or 28 gauge lancets?
Look at one of them under a light ,you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Re read my post #11

This might help for testing
Here's the post with testing tips:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-9-bailey-amps-117-5-62.252712/#post-2851043

Hete are more testing tips here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

He was crying, made me sad . Gave him 3 treats after; doesn’t have any obvious veins i can see.

Sometimes test spots get sore, or it could be that he doesn't like his ears to be messed with. He's okay, you're doing this in order to help keep him safe, and he'll understand eventually! For difficulty seeing veins, can you instead look at where the fur on the inside of his ear stops? Aim a little bit inside of that, towards edge of his ear- in that "sweet spot" zone. You only need to poke a little tiny bit, and eventually you can tell by feel if the lancet got to where it needs to be with skin depth.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Yo don’t really want to hit the vein. You want between the vein and the edge of the ear.
Everyone fails in the beginning so don’t be disheartened. Try humming or singing a little song as you do it. They will ease the tension and make Sam feel better. Some people wear a torch on their head so they can see better. I can promise you the bond will get even better as you progress through the FD journey.
this is one of outer members.

 

[chuckstables]

So I tested him 3 hours after his dose this morning; he was at 319. Turns out the reading from last night was invalid; I just didn't know how to use the meter! Lol. It might be higher because I was giving him high carb treats; just realized that they're actually very high carbs, so for treats I'll use the purina proplan DM dry food (a little bit of it).

 

[Chrispooky12]

So I tested him 3 hours after his dose this morning; he was at 319. Turns out the reading from last night was invalid; I just didn't know how to use the meter! Lol. It might be higher because I was giving him high carb treats; just realized that they're actually very high carbs, so for treats I'll use the purina proplan DM dry food (a little bit of it).

I buy chicken breasts & boil it in plain water, then I tear it into pieces some people cut it up easier to pull it apart. Then I put some in individual Tupperware containers & freeze what I don't need & pull them out as needed. It's 0 carbs & my boys love it.

 

[chuckstables]

I buy chicken breasts & boil it in plain water, then I tear it into pieces some people cut it up easier to pull it apart. Then I put some in individual Tupperware containers & freeze what I don't need & pull them out as needed. It's 0 carbs & my boys love it.

Sam loves chicken, I'll buy some tomorrow. Kinda stuck inside right now; the streets are covered in snow and I have old tires. Got stuck like 6 times trying to get pizza.

 

[Chrispooky12]

Sam loves chicken, I'll buy some tomorrow. Kinda stuck inside right now; the streets are covered in snow and I have old tires. Got stuck like 6 times trying to get pizza.

Ugg I hate snow. I live in the US in Indiana, so far we've only gotten one snow this winter, I'm sure we will gets lots more. It's just really cold here right now.

 

[chuckstables]

Ugg I hate snow. I live in the US in Indiana, so far we've only gotten one snow this winter, I'm sure we will gets lots more. It's just really cold here right now.

Only -7 C right now. I live in Surrey, BC (metro vancouver). Good news is i found the sweet spot, sam didnt even mind much. He was at 9.5 mmols/l pre PM shot! I think maybe his morning dose needs to go up? His blood sugar is way higher AM than PM.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I think maybe his morning dose needs to go up?

No, please do NOT increase the dose without more testing. You are already at a fairly high dose. It is completely normal for cats to have different numbers in the AM versus the PM, especially at the beginning. It's possible he was "bouncing" which is his bodies reaction to going too low before then. Here is the definition:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Ditto what Wendy said. You need more data before raising the dose. You don't know where Sam's numbers were during the PM cycle last night. They could have dropped lower. Also, dosing is not based on the pre-shot number. With Lantus, dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle (i.e., the nadir).

 

[chuckstables]

Ditto what Wendy said. You need more data before raising the dose. You don't know where Sam's numbers were during the PM cycle last night. They could have dropped lower. Also, dosing is not based on the pre-shot number. With Lantus, dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle (i.e., the nadir).

Yeah obviously i’m not gonna touch his dose, just musing that maybe thats what would eventually have to happen.

What lancets can i use with the bravo meter lancing device? Anyone know?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Did the lancing device not come with lancets? I free handed the poke, without the lancing device, so could use any I wanted to. When you are new, best to use 26-28 gauge lancet.

 

[chuckstables]

Did the lancing device not come with lancets? I free handed the poke, without the lancing device, so could use any I wanted to. When you are new, best to use 26-28 gauge lancet.

No lancets no. Sam was at 90 at AMPS, left out dry food and only gave him 2 IU then went to work.Each test shows his blood glucose lower than the last. Vet wants to do an exam. I’m scared

 

[Wendy&Neko]

The 3 unit dose is way too high. Please don't give him 3 units again. I'm glad you gave him a lower dose today and hope there is enough dry food to keep him safe.

Not sure why the vet needs to do an exam. Sam is responding as expected to insulin. Cats are unique in that they can go into diabetic remission, which means their pancreas starts to heal when in normal numbers, and their dose needs are reduced.

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

The 3 unit dose is way too high. Please don't give him 3 units again. I'm glad you gave him a lower dose today and hope there is enough dry food to keep him safe.

Not sure why the vet needs to do an exam. Sam is responding as expected to insulin. Cats are unique in that they can go into diabetic remission, which means their pancreas starts to heal when in normal numbers, and their dose needs are reduced.

Maybe it's to do an in clinic curve/fructosamine test? I've heard of some vets who want to do in clinic tests like that whenever theres a reduction. Still, follow the numbers!!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

An in clinic BG curve, especially a day after he drops low, is a waste of time and money. He could be bouncing and have high numbers at the clinic. Not what you want to use to make dosing decisions. BG data at home is always way better.

 

[apollonia-artemisia]

An in clinic BG curve, especially a day after he drops low, is a waste of time and money. He could be bouncing and have high numbers at the clinic. Not what you want to use to make dosing decisions. BG data at home is always way better.

Literally, plus, being in clinic is very stressful for cats. What I meant by "follow the numbers" is to adjust based on how he's doing- not just giving the same dose when its clearly too high.

 

[chuckstables]

Just to be clear; i didn’t decide his dose. That was my vet. I’ve never changed his dose myself. Vet bumped him from 2 to 3 units a month ago. Should i be giving 2.5 maybe?