going backwards?

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storm

storm

Member Since 2017
Cinn is currently on 3 units 2x daily with Lantus .... his numbers are still all over the place, low normal to low 300's when he has 24/7 access to YA Zero MH and wet food 2 x daily, high 300's to 500's when he is on just an all wet food diet .. my vet wants me to increase his dose to 4 units .. i personally think the 3 units is too high a dose .. i want to take him backwards by either decreasing his dose by 1/2 units or take him off insulin for a week or two, leave him just on a 24/7 access to YA Zero with 2 wet feedings a day diet then restart him on the lantus but start at 1/2 unit and then increase from there if needed. my reason is .. when he was first diagnosed .. when i was testing ( before he was on insulin) he would test in 4-500 range just with wet food, once i put him and my other cats on YA Zero access, his numbers started to come down and the day he went to the vet for his first shot, he tested at 170 so i think i need to go back to that time and then restart him on the insulin but on a smaller dose then the 1 unit he was originally started on.

my question is can this be done? do i decrease 1/2 a unit every 10 days or can i just stop his dosage cold turkey and then restart him in 7-14 days?

do i try and discuss this with my vets again or just inform them i want to do this? .. i have tried to explain to them multiple time, 3 units is not working and i think its too high especially since he is on a very low carb dry as well as getting the low carb high protein wet food but they are insistent the dose is not enough and needs to be increased
 
You have a lot going on on your SS! Quite a few NSs, lots of bouncing. This sort of instability can be from a few different things:
  1. too high an insulin dose - quite likely
  2. dose increases that are too large - we recommend increases of 0.25 u at a time
  3. a natural bouncy cat - you can work around this.
His first day on 1 u was quite good and then all hell broke loose! He starting bouncing like crazy and it's been up and down ever since. I do see the merit in restarting at a low dose. Have you read up on either of the Lantus dosing protocols we use here (TR or SLGS). I think choosing one of those methods would be very helpful.

I wouldn't take him off all insulin but lowering his dose significantly and then changing by no more than 0.25 u at a time could work. Let's see what the Lantus pros think. Please post on that forum where you'll get advice from experienced Lantus users.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You have a lot going on on your SS! Quite a few NSs, lots of bouncing. This sort of instability can be from a few different things:
  1. too high an insulin dose - quite likely
  2. dose increases that are too large - we recommend increases of 0.25 u at a time
  3. a natural bouncy cat - you can work around this.
His first day on 1 u was quite good and then all hell broke loose! He starting bouncing like crazy and it's been up and down ever since. I do see the merit in restarting at a low dose. Have you read up on either of the Lantus dosing protocols we use here (TR or SLGS). I think choosing one of those methods would be very helpful.

I wouldn't take him off all insulin but lowering his dose significantly and then changing by no more than 0.25 u at a time could work. Let's see what the Lantus pros think. Please post on that forum where you'll get advice from experienced Lantus users.
Click to expand...

i already use the SLGS protocol because he does have access to the YA Zero but the vet has been increasing his doses in whole units, not half and she keeps insisting on a total wet diet for him but when ever i have him on all wet, his numbers are high and stay high .. the NS were only when he had access to the YA Zero .. with the other cats in the house, to keep peace, i need a dry food they can all eat since 2 wont eat wet at all but will seek out paper or plastic to eat, 1 will actually eat it but only after not eating for a couple of days but pukes immediately afterwards then she wont touch it again for a few days but again pukes what she did eat, repeating a vicious circle and i cant keep him separated as the only room available is my bedroom but it gets wicked hot in there in summer as the only window opens on to the sunporch.

ok will copy and paste my post to the Lantus thread
 
storm said:
i already use the SLGS protocol because he does have access to the YA Zero but the vet has been increasing his doses in whole units, not half and she keeps insisting on a total wet diet for him but when ever i have him on all wet, his numbers are high and stay high .. the NS were only when he had access to the YA Zero .. with the other cats in the house, to keep peace, i need a dry food they can all eat since 2 wont eat wet at all but will seek out paper or plastic to eat, 1 will actually eat it but only after not eating for a couple of days but pukes immediately afterwards then she wont touch it again for a few days but again pukes what she did eat, repeating a vicious circle and i cant keep him separated as the only room available is my bedroom but it gets wicked hot in there in summer as the only window opens on to the sunporch.

ok will copy and paste my post to the Lantus thread
Click to expand...
The SLGS protocol calls for an immediate dose reduction of 0.25 u every time you get a BG measurement under 90. You've had many of those but kept the dose the same. It's possible that your kitty is carb sensitive and changing from YA to wet food has impacted the BG numbers. My opinion, however, is that the high dose and whole number dose changes are having a greater effect. I hope you can get some advice on the Lantus forum.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The SLGS protocol calls for an immediate dose reduction of 0.25 u every time you get a BG measurement under 90. You've had many of those but kept the dose the same. It's possible that your kitty is carb sensitive and changing from YA to wet food has impacted the BG numbers. My opinion, however, is that the high dose and whole number dose changes are having a greater effect. I hope you can get some advice on the Lantus forum.
Click to expand...

yes i kept the dose the same because the vet would not agree with a dosage reduction and since im all new to the whole feline diabetes thing she should know best but now that she and her partners in the clinic are all in agreement with another increase by a whole unit im thinking i need to just take matters in my own hands and start reducing his dosage to see if that helps with getting him to more stable BG numbers that can come close or meet normal range
 
storm said:
yes i kept the dose the same because the vet would not agree with a dosage reduction and since im all new to the whole feline diabetes thing she should know best but now that she and her partners in the clinic are all in agreement with another increase by a whole unit im thinking i need to just take matters in my own hands and start reducing his dosage to see if that helps with getting him to more stable BG numbers that can come close or meet normal range
Click to expand...
You're in that very difficult place many here have been in - getting one type of direction from your vet and something totally different on FDMB. It's a tough decision to make but I think the knowledge base here is both broad and deep. There aren't many vets who are well versed in treating FD.
 
i love my vets their bedside manner with their patients is awesome .. what vet do you know will allow your cat to come out of the cage when staying for a visit just to allow it to pee on the floor because he wont pee in a litter box and wont pee where he sleeps so will end up holding it until he is out of that cage .. they also allow the pets to roam around the exam room, preferring to sit and examine them on the floor instead of on a cold hard table and all my pets love them hate the car ride there but once there they dont panic or make scary noises at them
 
storm said:
i love my vets their bedside manner with their patients is awesome .. what vet do you know will allow your cat to come out of the cage when staying for a visit just to allow it to pee on the floor because he wont pee in a litter box and wont pee where he sleeps so will end up holding it until he is out of that cage .. they also allow the pets to roam around the exam room, preferring to sit and examine them on the floor instead of on a cold hard table and all my pets love them hate the car ride there but once there they dont panic or make scary noises at them
Click to expand...
A vet can be wonderful in treating other health issues, etc. but most had very little time devoted to FD while in school. They have a lot to learn about different health concerns in different animals. I don't fault them for being generalists. The people here, though, live FD 24/7 for years on end. It's your decision, of course, and you'll be welcome here any time you have a question/concern. :)
 
oh im not going anywhere .. i trust my vets but trust my gut more when it tells me my boy doesn't need to be on such a high dose and that i need to decrease not increase his dosage so thats why im here asking if i can go backwards as well as asking for advice on how to do so that's safe and easy for both me and my boy
 
I used my previous vet for 8 years. She went on maternity leave when Chuck got sick. The other vet there who started him on insulin insisted on giving him 7 units twice a day. Said it didn't matter how much he ate or if he ate at all- "give 7 units". It could have killed him. I switched vets because of this and haven't looked back. My new vet is awesome.
Like Kris said, they can be fantastic vets but still lack in depth knowledge on treating FD.
Trust your gut. I'll follow your thread on the lantus forum to see how it goes.
 
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