Gizmo Wilshin

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Gizmo Wilshin

Member Since 2012
My cat Gizmo was diagnosed June 9th of this year. I have kept in constant communication with my vet, but still feel completely overwhelmed. I have purchased all the testing supplies, syringes, insulin, and even made myself a rice sock (after many failed attempts at getting a blood sample). Gizmo has been on Iams Indoor cat formula (dry food) and Iams canned food (chicken formula only) for most of his teen and adult life. After being diagnosed he did well at first, eating the same food etc. Then three weeks later not so much, he wasn't eating his dry food and was barely eating the canned food, I could tell he was losing weight, then I noticed he was walking funny on his back legs; this really freaked me out, I thought he had hurt himself jumping down off of the bed or couch. I made an appointment with the vet right away and took him in the next day. The vet told me that he had neuropathy due to high blood sugar, this I didn't understand as I was giving the insulin to him like they told me to: test his blood before feeding him, if it's under 250 don't give him insulin, if it's above 250 or close to it give him 1 1/2 units two times a day 12 hours apart. Now most of the time when I tested him his sugar level was at 178 or below with the exception of 2 or 3 times (note that I was giving him the insulin at 7:30 am checking the sugar level at 7am then again at 7pm insulin at 7:30pm). So I wasn't giving it to him if it was under 250. How did he get the neuropathy then? Also, when I took him in they said that his blood sugar level was in the 400! It has never been in the 400s for me. So I'm wondering if my monitor is incorrect and his blood sugar had been high the entire time! I have tested the monitor and everything checks out fine. I'm not sure what to do now, I'm insain with worry that I will give him the insulin when he doesn't need it and he will go into hypoglycimia, but I'm also afraid of not giving it to him when he needs it and causing the neuropathy to get worse. The monitor that I'm using is the Tru2go that I picked up at CVS. I had my vet test it out and she said that everything appears to be working. I would go out and try different ones but that can get really expensive especially the testing strips. Can someone tell me what the best monitor to get is, and where I can get it semi cheap. I don't want to have a monitor where the testing strips are crazy expensive. I'm looking into getting pet insurance that might help with some of the costs, but so far I haven't found one that will help with that. Any information that I can get from everyone here will be much appreciated. I'm sure that I will have more questions as this goes on. Gizmo is only 13 years old and I've had him since he was a baby I'm not ready to let him go yet and I'm determined to fight this.

Gizmo and Kitsey's mom
 
Welcome extra sweet Gizmo and MamaBean! Diabetes isn't a death sentence - let's get you on the right track to help your baby.

Unfortunately we've discovered anything with 'Tru' in it's name ISN'T including the CVS one. Plus the CVS strips tend to be expensive. At our house, we use the Walmart Relion Confirm, NOT the Ultima. The strips are about $20 for 50 and can be purchased as a generic by Arkray from American Diabetes Warehouse (www.adw.com).

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that number at the vets being right either - stress increases BG. You need to test at least before each shot and in the middle of each cycle but you'll do great with that.

I can't help with the Neuropathy but I read about people using B12 supplement - someone wll chime in with that info for you.

BIG HUGS!
 
CoatCheckGirl said:
This thread includes a spreadsheet that lists various meters and its ratings. You can use it as a guide to help you determine what's the best meter to get:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70140

I am using the Relion Ultima and have for the last three years. I, too, pay $20 for a box of 50 strips at my local WalMart.

Good luck to you!
Click to expand...

Guess I should have said why I don't suggest the Ultima...sorry. The Ultima takes quite a bit bigger drop of blood and, IMHO, doesn't sip as easily. There's nothing 'wrong' with it's reading, I found it read about the same. I don't know if Arkray makes a strip for the Ultima.
 
Hello Kittsies mom and Gizmo,
Welcome. We will all our best to help you get a handle on this. Ask questions. Tell us where you are from and you might even have someone near by
who can come help you.

1) the neuropathy.
I just ordered this for my own girl. You don't have to order it online. I'm sure they have it at walmart or walgreens or cvs.
http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitami ... 0-capsules
You open a capsule and mix it in the food.

2. Like so many others, you've got an average vet. He is not helping very much. I feel like he's just patting you on the head and sending you on your way.
What insulin do you have?
We need to know so we give you the right information . We won't pat you on the head. We'll hold your hand as much as you want.
There are no stupid questions.
( just stupid vets ...... :o ( did i say that out loud?)


3. The Iams dry food has got to go. That food has 35 to 40% of it's calories from carbs.
Poor Gizmo.... no wonder he's not feeling well. That food is really high. ( I used that some of the time.... wow ....)

The canned chicken Iams is 10 %. Most of us feed less than 10 %.
So it's not as terrible but I think I would switch for a while to a lower one as long as he will eat the new ones I will list for you.

Here are the links to the food list so you can print them for yourself.
There are two separate lists, one is older foods that are still around and the other has newer foods on it but not some of the really newer ones.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

There are quite a few possibilities at walmart. The CLASSIC fancy feasts which are on the first list have several that are less than 8 % carbs.
Fancy feast is available almost everywhere. You'll want to hit those sales often because he'll probably need 3 cans a day as they are small ( only 3 oz)

If you have a hard time looking at the lists, just ask.
I'll type some foods to shop for out for you.

All dry food is bad for our sugarbabies. You've got to get rid of it to help Gizmo. I'm glad he already likes some canned food because it shouldn't be hard
to get him to switch.

However, I have to tell you right now that as you are making this change...You will definitely lower his insulin dosage. If you are using Lantus, then
you will need to lower the dosage to 1 unit.
This lowering is necessary because when you get rid of dry food, his blood sugar will probably go down at least by 100 right away.
Suddenly a higher dose of insulin is too much.

4. You will need to find high protein no carb treats to reward Gizmo every time you stick him.... either glucose testing or the shot.
I just saw PureBites at petsmart yesterday so now they have them too.
They are 100% protein. You can also boil chicken and freeze it and use it as treats assuming Gizmo likes it.
Stay away from Pounce and Greenies. They are all high in carbs too.
It's harder to find all protein treats but there are some out there.

5. I think your best cheap option on meters is the one that was mentioned from walmart.


As soon as you decide to switch his food, lower his dosage of insulin.
You will stay on this new dose for at least 3 days. I think you should keep the 1 unit dose for a week and continue monitoring bg levels to see what the new
numbers will be.
the motto here is Go Low and Go slow.

Then keep posting to us and keep us updated.

We would all very much like you to have a spreadsheet where you can post the numbers.
If you don't know how to set that up, Ask. Someone better than me will be able to help with that.....

We , this wonderful helping community, Will help you make Gizmo feel better.
I'm so glad you asked for help.
In time, it will all start making sense to you and it won't feel so overwhelming.

You are most welcome to our help.
 
Hi and Welcome.

The Tru meters are not the best to use for cats. Many of us have had problems with the meters and I suggest you purchase one of the following meters instead.

Relion - sold by Walmart - is the least expensive meter/strips - it's good, reliable and takes small amount of blood

If you want name brand - Bayer Contour is a good choice - it's reliable, takes small amount of blood and no coding of strips to meter needed. It is more expensive than Relion.

One Touch Ultra is also good, but it's expensive and requires more blood than the above two.

Regarding neuropathy - You need to purchase Vitamin B12 - methylcolobalamin. There are several kinds of b12, so you need to make sure it contains this type. You want to get anything from 3 mg - 5 mg.

The daily dose would be one pill once a day. Here is the one I used and recommend, because it doesn't contain any sugar, fruit flavors and comes as a capsule to make mixing with wet food very easy.

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitami ... 0-capsules

As it's a vitamin, it won't hurt if he doesn't eat it all or if another animal eats it too. Whatever the body cannot use, will be peed out. (I used to joke that Maui peed pink - as it's pink in color).

Depending on the severity of the neuropathy, with the b12 and insulin regulation, slowly over time it may improve and potentially reverse itself completely. With Maui it happened so gradually, that I almost didn't realize that she was back on her toes and no longer resting when she walked down the hall.

Regarding food - the quicker you remove the dry food, the better off you will be. Also, you want to get food that is under 10% carbs. Included in this link is Janet & Binky's food chart that will help you find foods under 10% carb, the lower you can go, the better off for the cat. Some cats are very carb sensitive and need to have less than 4% carbs.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115

Now a few questions:

What insulin are you using?
How much are you dosing?
What is the frequency?
Where do you live?

No matter what insulin you are using, you want to start low and go slow - meaning, start with a low dose of 1 unit or less and slowly with testing and over several days/weeks adjust the dose based on the tests taken.

As you are having problems with testing, if you tell us where you live, there may be a member who can help you in person.

The thing to keep in mind is that food, testing and insulin work together and when you change the food, the BG's may drop dramatically as a result. So, before you make any changes, you want to be sure that you are testing.

Regarding testing - test results at the vet may not be accurate due to vet stress. The cat not being in home environment. So adjusting dose based on these tests could potentially harm the cat and adjustments should be done based on home testing.

There is more information, but so as not to overwhelm, how else can we help you.
 
Guess I should have said why I don't suggest the Ultima...sorry. The Ultima takes quite a bit bigger drop of blood and, IMHO, doesn't sip as easily. There's nothing 'wrong' with it's reading, I found it read about the same. I don't know if Arkray makes a strip for the Ultima.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I initially got nervous as I was wondering if there was something wrong with the Ultima that I wasn't aware of. To be honest I wasn't even aware there were any other models beside and the Micro and Ultima. Those are the only two models my local WalMart carries. :smile:
 
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your comments, now I don't feel so alone in this. I am currently using Lantus, 1 unit, two times a day. He is also taking 1/2 tablet of prednisolone (5mg) for the IBD, 1/4 tablet (of a 10mg tablet) of Pepcid AD for nausea, and 1/2 scooper of patassium; all mixed in his food or disguised in soft Whiska Treats. I picked up Fancy feast classic chicken and right now I'm mixing it with the iams chicken formula so that it doesn't make him sick. I figured that I would wean him off of the iams. I do have dry food down, but he doesn't seem to want to eat it and that is the Purina Pro formula chicken and rice. I could not get him to eat dry or canned food last night, so I broke out the canned tuna fish and he seemed to gobble that down. Gizmo is a large cat (not overweight large, but long and well porportioned I will post pictures eventually) normally his weight is anywhere from 17 lbs to 22 lbs. because of the extreme weight loss from the diabetes he now weighs 14.5. So as you can see HUGE weight loss in the last month. The vet that I have wants him to gain weight at least 3 lbs if possible. That is hard to do when I can't get him to eat anything (well except tuna fish) nailbite_smile.

It's also not helping that I'm having such a hard time testing his blood. It's like I'm not able to get the lancet to pierce his ear, when I do I'm not getting any blood or such as small amount that it isn't enough. I'm so frustrated by this and it takes me so long to get a good sample that by the time that that happens I'm exhausted and Gizmo is extremely irritated and stiff from having to sit so long. I have done everything that the vet has recommended. I have heated up a rice sock, rubbed his ear to stimulate blood flow, used vasiline to get the blood to bead, and failed more times then I can count. Not to mention I tried to test him this morning, got a good blood sample, only to get an ERROR-5 on the True2go meter 3 times in a row :evil: ! Hence why this meter met with garbage can this morning! I will admit there were a lot of choice words and tears involved (sigh). The vet tells me that testing his blood is going to take some getting use to and time to master, but this is going on almost a month and I've gotten readings but they are not consistent enough; I'm so afraid that I'm going to give him the insulin when he doesn't need it and wind up hurting him :YMSIGH: I would welcome anyone that can come and help me and spend time really showing me what I'm doing wrong. I live in Mckinney, TX which is a northern suburb of Dallas, TX.

I am going to go to walmart today after work to pick up one of the meters that you have listed here, probably the Relion if I they have it at my store, since it takes a smaller sample which seems to be my best bet at this point. Gizmo has another vet visit on Monday, the 23rd, so we will see if he has gained weight and I will discuss with her if I should go ahead with the B-12 vitamine for him. I am putting together my own spread sheet to keep track of his Bg levels (when I can finally get one).

Thank you again for all of your suggestions (and listening to me rant, lol),

Sincerely,

Gizmo and Kitsey's Mom
 
If wallyworld doesn't have the Relion Micro, you can buy the Relion Confirm for the same price (less than $10). The two meters use the same strips. Our walmart sells 50 strips for $20, or 100 strips for I think $38. You may or may not have to ask at the counter for the strips. Apparently they are a frequently stolen item, and some stores don't put them out on the shelf.

Carl
 
Glad you threw the Tru2Go in the trash. Avoid anything with "Tru/True" in the name and also avoid the Freestyle meters with the butterfly strips.

When you're at Walmart look for some bigger lancets, usually they are advertised for "alternative site testing" but you want anything from 25-29 gauge (lower number = bigger). Bayer's microlets are 25 gauge and about $8 for 100 here in Canada. They might not work with your pen device but should be good if you freehand. That should significantly help your success in poking for blood as most normal lancets are very small 30 or 31 gauge.

Your vet has you on a half good half bad treatment program. Using Lantus, twice a day, and hometesting is great - but you are never going to get anywhere on that ridiculously high carb dry food. Others have advised you that low-carb canned is by far the best option (and completely necessary for the management of this disease IMO).

Maybe someone with more knowledge about prednisone can chime in, but pred does contribute to diabetes and lots of cats actually get transient diabetes from prednisone. You may want to try to cut his dose down to the lowest possible dose that still controls his IBD.
 
Hi (sorry don't know your name),

Couple of questions regarding your technique - you said that you are piercing his ear. Are you using a lancet device or are you doing this freehanded?

And the aim is not to pierce (poke a hole) in the ear, as that won't generate the blood flow.

I freehand the poke as I couldn't figure out the devices and have more control this way. When freehanding you want to aim at an upward 45 degree-ish angle, you don't want to pierce so that the lancet goes through the ear, rather you want to poke deep enough but not piercing.

Here is a pic of what I mean:
101_0669.jpg


And this is the area that you are aiming for:

sweetspot.jpg


When you test, are you going from the front of ear to back or back to front? I always go front to back, but you may want to try the opposite of what you are doing and may be more successful that way. It really doesn't matter if you get blood from the front or back of ear.

Have you tried both ears? Sometimes one ear bleeds better than the other.



The insulin you are using is excellent and the dose is a great starting dose.

Are you aware that prednisolone can contribute to diabetes? Why is he on it? Will he be on it long term? If he needs to stay on this drug, you may have a more challenging time regulating him because of it. But that doesn't mean you won't be able to do it, it just may mean a different dose is needed to counterbalance the pred.

It's a significant amount of weight loss and one that certainly is noticeable. Maui lost almost half her body weight 16 pounds to 8 pounds and now is at a healthy 13-15 pounds. So, yeah we understand.

I am concerned as to why he isn't eating. Especially with pred in his system as that tends to make them hungry).

If he isn't interested in the dry, then once he is back to wanting to eat, you can easily remove it and that's one less issue to deal with.

I think we have people in the Dallas area. I'll do some checking to see who is there and may be able to help you. Also, please remove your email address from your post, as you don't want wackos getting it and abusing it. After all this is the internet. People can post here or PM with you and exchange info that way.
 
Hillary & Maui said:
Hi (sorry don't know your name),

Couple of questions regarding your technique - you said that you are piercing his ear. Are you using a lancet device or are you doing this freehanded?

And the aim is not to pierce (poke a hole) in the ear, as that won't generate the blood flow.

I freehand the poke as I couldn't figure out the devices and have more control this way. When freehanding you want to aim at an upward 45 degree-ish angle, you don't want to pierce so that the lancet goes through the ear, rather you want to poke deep enough but not piercing.

Here is a pic of what I mean:
101_0669.jpg


And this is the area that you are aiming for:

sweetspot.jpg


When you test, are you going from the front of ear to back or back to front? I always go front to back, but you may want to try the opposite of what you are doing and may be more successful that way. It really doesn't matter if you get blood from the front or back of ear.

Have you tried both ears? Sometimes one ear bleeds better than the other.



The insulin you are using is excellent and the dose is a great starting dose.

Are you aware that prednisolone can contribute to diabetes? Why is he on it? Will he be on it long term? If he needs to stay on this drug, you may have a more challenging time regulating him because of it. But that doesn't mean you won't be able to do it, it just may mean a different dose is needed to counterbalance the pred.

It's a significant amount of weight loss and one that certainly is noticeable. Maui lost almost half her body weight 16 pounds to 8 pounds and now is at a healthy 13-15 pounds. So, yeah we understand.

I am concerned as to why he isn't eating. Especially with pred in his system as that tends to make them hungry).

If he isn't interested in the dry, then once he is back to wanting to eat, you can easily remove it and that's one less issue to deal with.

I think we have people in the Dallas area. I'll do some checking to see who is there and may be able to help you. Also, please remove your email address from your post, as you don't want wackos getting it and abusing it. After all this is the internet. People can post here or PM with you and exchange info that way.
Click to expand...



Thanks I will try this method and see if I get better results. Yes I believe he is on the pred long term we have tried to take him off of it and after about two days the vomiting starts again.

Thanks,

Kitsey and Gizmo's Mom
 
Hi again,

I know that you are stuck with the prednisone until you get the other condition managed, if it can be.
That can't be changed and very likely you will be giving shots from here on out since prednisone can cause diabetes.
But you know that already.... It is what it is.


I am having the same problem with lancing my girl's ears. I have to get really close to the edge and I get a proper size droplet but the lancet I have
is too too fine. I researched an ordered another one. the Accuchek Softclix. It has the higher gauge and others have told me it's far better than the
one I have now , which is the accuchek fastclix.

So it could very well be your lancet. Most of the ones out there are finer gauge since they are intended for people.
I stood at walgreens and cvs looking at their lancets and they were all the fine ones like I have. And there is no information on the box AT ALL :roll:
as to what gauge they were. I asked and they told me.
That's when I came home and ordered the one I did and it should be here tomorrow.


Food. The chicken formula Iams is borderline as it has 10% carbs. Good that you are mixing it to get Gizmo to switch.
I thought you mentioned somewhere that you had Whiskas treats ..... If so, they are very high in carbs so I would put those up in a hypo kit.

Whiskas canned has a chicken and tuna dinner which is 4 carbs.
Fancy feast has a flaked fish and shrimp feast with 0 carbs ( wonder if they still make that)
I know the turkey classic dinner is low.

wonder if he would like duck??

Looking forward to the spreadsheet.
 
One of the most common causes of IBD in cats is grain intolerance. Both of the foods you're feeding are full of grain. Changing the diet could very well eliminate the IBD and you might not have to give the prednisone any longer, which would mean he probably would no longer need insulin. Bandit has mild IBD and was puking up his food for years until we switched to grain-free canned food, and we haven't had puking problems since. His diabetes is currently in remission. He eats mostly low carb, low fat Merricks flavors (high fat foods cause runny poo because of his IBD), with grain-free Fancy Feast classic flavors a couple times a week.

Another common cause of IBD is an intolerance to the protein source (usually fish, beef, or chicken). If a grain-free canned diet doesn't get rid of it, I would then try a grain-free canned diet with a novel protein source, like turkey, venison, or rabbit. There are several brands and options out there.

A raw diet has also been shown to be incredibly beneficial for IBD for the same reasons, if you're willing to do it. The large majority of the time, IBD can be controlled with diet, just like with people. Fortunately, the same diet that will help his IBD will also help his diabetes.

More information about diet and IBD: http://catinfo.org/#Inflammatory_Bowel_Disease_(IBD) .

http://www.catnutrition.org/ibd.html
 
Hillary and Maui,

I want to thank you soooooo much for posting that picture of the "sweet spot" for blood testing I have used that the last two days and if I don't get it on the first try I get it on the second so thank you a million times over.

Ok so here is the question for today: at 6:30am this morning I tested Gizmo and his bg was 153, I fed him canned food (mixture of Iams and Fancy feast) gave him 1/2 u. Then tested his blood again at 3:00pm (to get an idea of what the 1/2 u was doing for him) and his bg was 171, it wasn't time for his next dose yet so I gave him some tuna fish. I then tested him again at 7:00pm and his bg was 151. So my question is do I just do another 1/2 u or should I do the 1 u? I'm so worried that he will go hypog. on me.

I am putting up the whiska treats, does anyone know what treats would be ideal for when I'm testing his blood? Please note that I need something that is soft so that I can hide medicine in it.

Thank you all again for your feed back

Sincerely,

Kitsey and Gizmo's mom
 
per lantus protocol, you want to hold this dose for 5 days. unless he goes under 50 then you would reduce the dose.

take a look at the lantus forum and read the stickies/starred info it will give you the details of dosing.

153 and 171 are decent numbers - diabetic numbers but still good considering

glad the photos helped.
 
So Gizmo had his visit yesterday and all good news on the diabetes front. Vet says that all the numbers I got look really good nothing over 171 and nothing too low. But he is still having trouble with his back legs. I'm starting to think that it is an injury instead of the neuropathy. I think we are going to have to take some x-rays and find out, poor little guy. He doesn't seem to be in pain, just frustrated that his back legs won't do what he wants so the vet is going to have me bring him back in in a week if the B-12 shots don't do the trick. She said that she wants me to do the B-12 anyway because we have been having a hard time getting him to eat full meals. Personally I'm crossing my fingers that the B-12 clears up the leg issue too :sad: . I'm having to mix tuna fish into his canned food to get him to eat it. BG levels have been fine but still worries me that he won't eat the food unless there is tuna in it.

I have stopped with the whiska treats and right now I've been using chunks of turkey breast, as we have had some as leftovers and that seems to work and doesn't seem to mess up the Bg levels. It's probably better for him too then the whiska ones. Thank you for all of your feed back, I'm sure more questions will crop up lol :D.

Sincerely,

Kitsey and Gizmo's mom
 
Hi guys. I'm new to this too. We're getting there step by step. Take it day by day as it really is 'information overload' and it's sometimes hard to know what advice to follow when your vet conflicts with the board's advice. In my experience over the last month's roller coaster ride, most of what people tell you is spot on. Often the vets advice is outdated.

With all the stuff to read, I find the 6 steps on this page to be pretty clear. If you can slowly get to doing those, you'll be going in the right direction.

http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6importantfactors.htm

It's great that testing is going better for you. We struggle with it too as charlie's ears are bruised and she does not enjoy it. Still, what i have learned this past month is that the more you test, the better you can do.

Consider setting up a page with your stats. It will help people help you.
You can do it!

Charlie is not out of the woods yet, but we're getting better after a really rough weekend. Now we switched insulins and it is already better. Hope it's going better for you too.Hang in there.
 
what is in the b12 injections? If it doesn't contain the methycobalin then it won't help with the neuropathy.

And turkey breast treats, sound yummy. Keep thinking about other proteins that you eat that you could use as treats - chicken, steak, burgers, etc. Plain without spices all will work.
 
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