getting difficult time on injection

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mimi1997

mimi1997

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Mimi is on insulin since 10/13/10. First week it seems fine for me to do the injection on his scruff. Sometime he looked like he didn't feel a thing.
Recently he seems hurt every time I insert (or not even insert yet) the needle (beveled side up), and he would move with angrier meow each time.
When I get the syringe on the table he keeps staring at it and watch my next move....
I don't know what I did wrong.

One thing I can think of is I changed the meal time. When I just started in first week, I fed him at 7am as usual, then gave him injection at 8am.
Then I fed him at 6pm as usual, a little more at 7am, then injection at 8pm.
Once he's fed, he groomed for 10 min or 15, then went to sleep on sofa. He's sleepy at 8am or 8pm, one hour after his meal.

Then I learned I should keep the feeding and injection time close, so I try to make them 30 min apart.
So now he's pretty awake when I give him the insulin.

Can I go back to feed him one hour apart from injection and see if he is better with it?
I am not sure why feels more pain now....
 
I use a 4 Ps approach

I Pinch up a tent of skin (ie firmly grasp a fold of skin and lift it)
I gently Poke the syringe into the tented area
I Push the plunger on the syringe
I Pull it out

If you are hitting muscle tissue, it will hurt more; if you are using long-ish needles this is more likely.

The syringe should be angled so that the needle is aiming for the little hollow tent you have made by pulling up some skin, not pushing straight into the cat.
 
We always gave Oliver his injection when he was eating; he never blinked.

What gauge and size needle? Some kitties are more sensitive and do better with the shorter needles and the higher gauge (30 or higher)

Sometimes if your dose is too high, and the cat feels crummy after the injection, they start to fight it. Are you hometesting? How much and what kind of insulin?
 
I must have hit his muscle before.
I think he connects the syringe and pain together, he moved at the moment that needle tip touch his skin.

BJM said:
I use a 4 Ps approach

I Pinch up a tent of skin
I gently Poke the syringe into the tented area
I Push the plunger on the syringe
I Pull it out

If you are hitting muscle tissue, it will hurt more; if you are using long-ish needles this is more likely.

The syringe should be angled so that the needle is aiming for the little hollow tent you have made by pulling up some skin, not pushing straight into the cat.
Click to expand...
 
My cat fights with hometesting as well... :*(
I don't think I can home test him every two hour at this point, when will be my best shot to see if he's over dosed?
Before injection and 6 hours after injection?

The BG curve was done at vet's.
So far I have only done 3 home tests. :(
The lowest one is from yesterday, 59, 5.5 hours after injection of Lantus, 2 units (twice a day)
The other two are 157, before shot and before meal, oct 23rd. and 139, b/s b/m, oct 28th.

The syringe is "super thin" "29gauge, 1/2" needle length" and "comfort assured".
First week was fine so it must be me or something esle...

Sue and Oliver said:
We always gave Oliver his injection when he was eating; he never blinked.

What gauge and size needle? Some kitties are more sensitive and do better with the shorter needles and the higher gauge (30 or higher)

Sometimes if your dose is too high, and the cat feels crummy after the injection, they start to fight it. Are you hometesting? How much and what kind of insulin?
Click to expand...
 
Glad you are testing. Those are pretty low numbers. The general advice is not to give insulin when the bg level is 200 or less at shot time. Have you asked the Lantus users about your numbers and dose? viewforum.php?f=9

They will be able to give you some guidance on your numbers and dose.
 
It is most important to test before the shot and at nadir, which is usually somewhere around +6, so you have been testing at good times.

I have posted on Lantus and asked for someone to come over and give you some advice. (I don't use Lantus.)
 
No, I haven't been there much yet, just figured out how to post yesterday.
My vet gave me a guide line for home testing, if it between 100-200 before food and injection, it's "good control" and "Test again next week". So I was relieved when I got the first test for 157 last Sat.

Sue and Oliver said:
Glad you are testing. Those are pretty low numbers. The general advice is not to give insulin when the bg level is 200 or less at shot time. Have you asked the Lantus users about your numbers and dose? viewforum.php?f=9

They will be able to give you some guidance on your numbers and dose.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks so much. :)

I've been out today so I hope I can do more testing at home tomorrow.... if my cat let me...

Sue and Oliver said:
It is most important to test before the shot and at nadir, which is usually somewhere around +6, so you have been testing at good times.

I have posted on Lantus and asked for someone to come over and give you some advice. (I don't use Lantus.)
Click to expand...
 
Hi Mimi welcome. Sue gave you some good advice about posting on the Lantus site. I can't give you any dose advice I'm new too but if you will post on the site there are many experienced folks who can help answer your questions. You're doing well though that you are doing home testing. Try offering low carb treats like freeze dried chicken. Always treat right away and pet a while after. If you have some one to help they could hold and distract with treat. Have you read the stickeys at the Lantus site yet? A lot of information is in them. You can go to this link it has good info about the protocol we use http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_index.htmt it does work and since I joined in Sept. many kitties have been able to stop their insulin. It's very exciting!
You'll need to set up a Spread Sheet as soon as you can and a profile the tech area can help. The advisers need that info in order to advise you. There is a lot to learn but you will be supported and coming to FDMB is a great start.
 
Hi Mimi's bean-

Welcome! Can you give a little more information about what's happening when you're trying to test? Seems like you're getting some low numbers at nadir, so it would be great if you could test more. If you can tell us what's happening, we can offer some behavioral advice. You'll basically want to condition your kitty to associate test (and shot) time with good stuff. If you're having to poke a lot because you're not getting enough blood, have you tried warming Mimi's ears first? Warm ears bleed better. Plus, the more you test, the easier it gets...ears learn to bleed...sounds crazy, but they do. You can set up an area where you always do the testing. Take Mimi there and offer treats (no tests or shots at first). Massage his ears and again offer treats...you basically want him to be comfortable and associate what's happening with yummies. If you can give us a little more detail about what's happening, we can offer more specific advice.

As for giving the shots, it might be easier if you lift the skin by gently grabbing a tuft of fur, rather than trying to pinch to put the needle in. Where do you live? Perhaps there's someone in your area that can come and offer help. Since you're getting some pretty low numbers at nadir, and aren't able to test very frequently, it might be a good idea to lower the dose a bit until you can get a better idea of what Mimi's numbers really look like. Curves done at the vet's office are not always the most accurate, as most kitties are stressed at the vet's and stress can elevate BGs. Did you mention what you are feeding? Sorry if I missed it. FDs do best with low carb, high protein wet food. If you are feeding dry, please don't make any food changes until you are testing more. Switching from dry to wet will significantly affect Mimi's BG numbers and you run the risk of a hypo situation. Here's a link to check out in the meantime: Food and Nutrition

It will be helpful if you could get a spreadsheet started. Here is the link: Setting up a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is an easy way for us all to look at Mimi's numbers over time.

You can also set up a profile with all of Mimi's particulars...that way people won't keep asking you the same questions over and over about Mimi's history. Here's the link for that: Setting up a profile.

Ok. I'm going to let you absorb that information for now. Please ask lots of questions. There are lots of people here that know a ton about feline diabetes. Fill us in on what Mimi's doing during test and shot time and we'll see what we can do to make that an easier process for both of you!!

Cheers!

s
 
I didn't see anybody else ask, so at the risk of offending you if the answer is yes, but just in case the answer isn't....

You are using a different syringe every single time you inject Mimi right?

If you are, then the tips on how to reward Mimi for allowing you to inject him would be a good place to start - as would be making sure he's not going too low at nadir. I know Yittle used to get surly whenever his insulin was too much or too little and he "rollercoastered" too much.

If you aren't, then please start doing so because besides the usual risks of reusing a needle, the needles get incredibly dull after just one injection. This of course makes them hurt the cat when you try to inject them and causes issues. Every once in awhile we get a new user here who's vet hasn't explained to them that they must use a fresh needle every time so I wouldn't ask if it wasn't occaisionally the reason a cat gets cranky about injections.
 
Hi Amie,

You are getting great advice so please continue to post with questions:)

I think the dose may be high so if you could get some spot checks in that would be great. Also you can get a smaller gauge needle, we use 31 gauge. The higher the number, the thinner the needle. Call some pharmacies or order them online at Hocks.com.

How's your kitty today?
 
not offending at all, I know you are trying to help.
I use a new syringe every time, dump the used one into a sharp container.

Gina & Yittle (GA) said:
I didn't see anybody else ask, so at the risk of offending you if the answer is yes, but just in case the answer isn't....

You are using a different syringe every single time you inject Mimi right?

If you are, then the tips on how to reward Mimi for allowing you to inject him would be a good place to start - as would be making sure he's not going too low at nadir. I know Yittle used to get surly whenever his insulin was too much or too little and he "rollercoastered" too much.

If you aren't, then please start doing so because besides the usual risks of reusing a needle, the needles get incredibly dull after just one injection. This of course makes them hurt the cat when you try to inject them and causes issues. Every once in awhile we get a new user here who's vet hasn't explained to them that they must use a fresh needle every time so I wouldn't ask if it wasn't occaisionally the reason a cat gets cranky about injections.
Click to expand...
 
are you warming the insulin a little by holding in your hand to warm the bottle?
Injecting cold insulin bothers the cats.
 
I wouldn't recommend warming the bottle, I draw the insulin and return it to the fridge immediately. I take every measure I can to keep the insulin at a constant temperature, between 36 & 46 degrees F. if you want to warm the insulin before injecting it, you can roll the filled syringe between your fingers for a short time before injecting.

I would go with what Tucker's mom said, get a higher gauge needle, the 29 gauge is fairly large. I use 31 gauge...much more comfortable for Tinkles.
 
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