Gandalf update

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Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

Member Since 2009
I hoped he would eat better if I took him off the buprenorphine, so I didn't give him any this AM. He seemed comfortable. I syringe fed him twice, then put food down and he licked at it but didn't really eat it. I took a nap late this afternoon so didn't get any BG checks in.

He got mad when I tried to touch the site behind his back leg, although the site on his knee seems less sensitive. I noticed a little shaver burn on his skin at the back of leg site. There is not any swelling, although it's hard to tell as the skin is a little rolled up at the bottom where they sewed it together. He wouldn't get up for Fancy Feast and he normally likes that a lot.

He smelled at food bowls today but ignored them. I fed him an ounce of raw mix after his shot tonight and then after he wouldn't eat I decided he might be painful and pain is something which will stop a cat from eating. So I gave him another dose of bupe. He ate on his own last night, although not as much as usual. And he was on bupe then. I was a little concerned the bupe would make him out of it so that he wouldn't have enough awareness that he needed to eat. It's why I dropped his dose .1U. And with this morning preshot I think I was right on that.

He was high enough for fluids tonight so I gave him 75ml. I considered giving him some Pepcid, but I don't see any signs of upset like lip licking. Maybe his acu tomorrow will help him feel better. The acu vet said it was a good thing to do it 2 days after surgery.

He was affectionate and vocal when we were doing shot time so that's a plus and something I didn't see while on the bupe. The bupe is funny with him - he'll start purring the minute I say something to him, without even touching him. So he's doing OK, but I'm concerned what the not eating means and not real sure if it's pain or tummy upset, although I don't see signs of the latter and do of the former.
 
About an hour and a half after giving the bupe I offered him some food and he got up for it. He still didn't eat very much, but he got up for it when he wouldn't budge before. He kinda wobbled over, so I know the bupe's working.

Must be the pain. I doubt there's any after-effects of anesthesia, she only uses gas on him, not injectable. I can tell a big difference once we get home.
 
In my experience, the Bup does nothing to decrease appetite at all. It is simply a narcotic pain reliever that I would definately be giving a cat of Gandalfs age after a surgery.

I have given bup to both my non eating oldies (18yr +)for painful cystitis spasms and both return to eating within a few hours of the dose. Deb eats w/ gusto after Bup, Suzi is her usual refined self but eats as well.

When PK got bup during both bouts of pancreatitis last year, he would make half hearted attempts to eat where before the bup he cringed in a corner at meal time.

ETA- to correct dose listed
The dose Rx'd for PK at 12-15 lbs is .05 to .1ml BID-TID, however I have never given him over .05ml TID, usually .05ml BID.

The oldsters at 9lbs and 8lbs get .03ml BID.

With PK I see a definate doping effect, but for the pancreatitis think it is needed to get past the pain.

With the oldsters I do not see doping, but more relaxation.

So, maybe if you think the bup is effecting appetite, re-evaluate the amount you are giving or how often you are giving it?

Given his age and from your accounts his propensity to lack appetite in normal circumstances and by your description of recent surgery and such, it is my outside observation that he is probably doing alright, needs the bup although maybe a touch less, and wants his momma bean to feed him as you often do- I think it is probably a comfort to him now.

Keeping G in our thoughts here.
 
Thanks Melissa.

My thinking on the bupe affecting his eating was that it might make him so out of it he wouldn't get up to eat. I've really only given it to him during p-titis events before, so only had that behavior to go by, but we know the p-titis pain is what affects appetite there.

I now agree that otherwise the bupe is a non-factor in affecting appetite. It had to be the pain, so will do what I can to alleviate that. Am skipping it this AM as we have acupuncture in about 2 hours and that should help for today. At $42 for 8 filled syringes I was hoping to save the bupe for next p-titis flare!
 
Vicky & Gandalf said:
At $42 for 8 filled syringes I was hoping to save the bupe for next p-titis flare!
Click to expand...

I know you are a fan of the local pharmacy....I was able to get my vet to transfer our Bup Rx to a local pharmacy that will sell me a case ( 5, 1ml vials) for $30 or 1 single 1ml vial for $10.

Yes, that is correct and not a typo.

Seeing as how my vet will sell 1, 1ml vial for $20, or the prefilled syringe like you have for a ridiculous price, the local place is a HUGE savings.

Also saved myself 2 vet visits for refills already having the bup here in the cupboard.

Just FYI for next time.

And if it wasn't so terribly illegal to pass along, I'd offer the remainder on supply closet and get a fresh batch next time one of the furkids here needed it.

oh- and another FYI...there are two types I have found at local pharmacy...one is glass vial you have to break neck of and store in another container ( it is meant as one time human dose) and the other is a tiny glass vial with rubber stopper that you can continue to take from until gone. (says HCI or IV on it) -REALLY like those! :thumbup

***lastly, please re read original post of mine above for corrected dose info***
 
Vicky & Gandalf said:
Melissa are you sure it's "point zero three" ml on the dose? Gandalf gets it in 1ml syringe and it's clearly marked .3ml on the syringe, as is the labels.
Click to expand...

100% positive.

I use a 1ml vial that is marked in tenths and hundreths? The dose the vet originally rx'd in prefilled syringes for PK during pancreatitis was .03, and when he seemed in more pain and I had our own vial to draw from, she upped the dose to between .05 and .1ml...that is one tenth of 1ml/cc.

The rx label clearly reads to dose between .05 and .1, depending on need.

I wonder if that is some of the issue with G? Too much Bup? Though I believe I have read some folks here on FDMB giving up to .5ml/cc or half of 1ml/cc

The .1 knocks PK for a loop...as I mentioned, I generally gave him .05 and that gave doping effects.

My seniors get the .03 as I mentioned...it is a drop about the size of a pencil eraser circumference at bestand the depth of .5u we might draw from U100 syringes with half marks.

I do insist on tapering the dose off, especially with my seniors cystits, being as the cystis is a stress response and the Bup is a heavy narcotic. I used to give them Torbugesic and noticed a quick return of the cystitis until I started tapering over a number of days...now the attacks are rare and the quick return is no more at all with the tapering.

Anyway, being the microdose cat he is, I would expect PK to be more sensitive to meds...the old ladies I can't explain other than maybe it is just enough to take the edge off?
 
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