Gandalf update

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Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

Member Since 2009
Still struggling with unstable BGs. My schedule last week didn't help matters and this week we have the full moon coming up Friday. That may have lead to his highs today (399 AMPS) but he was also very lethargic this AM and the other day I'm pretty sure he's the one who peed near the boxes. No one has done that in a while and the boxes were clean enough that my other senior who will pee outside the box if they aren't should have been fine.

So I had his acu vet do a cysto today and she came back saying he had high leukocytes and enough Cocci (I don't know the complete name) to diagnose UTI. I know it's not a C&S, but I've also noticed that he's had pee on his bottom recently when I've picked him up for his test, so that seems odd. I'm fine with giving him a course of Baytril for this. It's the only AB he tolerates.

Perhaps that's been the problem all along.
 
His BGs seem to run in a cycle of about 7-10 days with numbers like three days ago, when he dropped to 48, then higher, higher until he spikes at upper 300s or even low 400s. I wonder what that is about? (I really have no clue). Could it be your work schedule?

Anyway... how often does he get UTIs? I can't really remember him having one before. Good thing you have him tested and I hope he feels better very soon.
 
You know, I just wonder sometimes if some cats just don't DO consistent low bg's.

You know I have been through it with PK on the L's...having tried to switch feeding times or styles and back, switched foods- even to raw and back, switched shooting schedules to alter nadir and back, switching litters, getting dentals....it never stops!

I finally just let it go, picked a micro dose and stick with it, keeping PK between 150 and 300 ish ( food spike) with an occasional dip to 80's or 40's....THAT is regulation for PK and he is happiest there it seems- chasing the old ladies, sleeping like a cat, pooties normal, playing....

Another thing to think about with G man....culd there be a cystitis issue rather than UTI? If the baytril seems to help then things go south again and you see the peeps on him again, maybe trying a course of pain meds to relieve cystitis spasms would be preferable?

address that is you need to down the road, but just wanted to put that thought on the horizon.

(((Gandalf)))
 
After 2 days of baytril he already is acting better. He was vocal last night before bed. I wasn't sure what he needed, if nothing more than attention since he felt better. BIG difference in activity, so this has probably been brewing for a while.

He doesn't get UTI's. It was probably 3 years ago now, as I think it was right before I started Lev, he was treated for 3 UTIs in succession as he had "bacteria" in his urine and his BGs were horrible. Of course, that was because the PZI was horrid for him. I remember I finally had them do a C&S and it came back no growth, so that was it on me thinking he had UTIs. I listened to Dr. Lisa on that.

This time a different vet did the work-up and she explained to me that the high leukocytes coupled with the type of bacteria she saw indicates bacterial overgrowth. So I'll take her word for that. The evidence in his behavioral change tells me he was feeling bad, no matter what was wrong.

Overnight he woke me up about 6AM, had his paws on my hand and purring. He wasn't licking me or anything, but he certainly was trying to wake me. I wasn't sure what he needed. I got up and looked at the feeder because usually it means he needs food. He sat on the bed talking to me, but there was no anxiety about it. I noticed he licked his lips twice. I showed him his food and he didn't seem to want any. So light bulb went off and I gave him some Pepcid. Shortly after he got down off the bed and went to the cat room and I returned his food there and he went to it.

Not sure why his tummy would be icky for him. I give him the Baytril in the AM, so that was quite a while beforehand that he'd had his dose. Doesn't look like he ate much though, so I am syringing his raw mixed with Turducken Merrick food.

I've been feeding them the grain free Wellness. I'm playing with fire a bit on the p-titis angle because I'd really like evidence that fat effects him. I started doing 50/50 in his bowl of Wellness and 9Lives. But Tigget is getting Core, which he likes way too much, so what the other 3 don't clean up, he does. And it's even higher in fat than regular Wellness.
 
We've had two episodes in the past month and a half where we didn't expect Lucy to live. She went from great BGs (double digits 24/7) to being 1) blind, 2) not able to move, and 3) really high BGs. The first time the vet put her on ABs because there was a slight indication of UTI. We didn't do the cysto tests because she gets so freaked out by them, and the vet didn't expect her to live. After 2 days on the ABs, she was back to normal. The next episode was 3 weeks later. I had been away for a week (unavoidable trip--dad in hospital) and came in from the airport on a Saturday afternoon to find her laid out on the kitchen floor. I knew she was still alive but it was just barely. The on-call vet told me to take her to the ER, that she needed to be hospitalized. I gave her fluids while considering the advice and then decided not to go. I knew she wouldn't come home and decided if it was her time, she should die at home with me. So I found someone (another FDMB member!) who had a couple of Zenequins and started her on them. By Sunday night she was walking and eating a few bites. We went to the vet on Monday morning and the blood work showed a very high lipase value. The vet said it was pancreatitis. She went back on the ABs since they had been so drastically successful with the previous incident. Within a couple of days, she was back to her old self. Over the past week, she's been waking me up at night playing with her Mr. Fish.

Sorry for the long ramble. The point is that older cats are just different; like older adults, they don't always respond the way the medical world expects them to. For Lucy, the ABs work so we're going to use them. It really doesn't matter "why" she is sick so much as how to stop the downturn ASAP. She doesn't have the stamina to bounce back like she used to have. The vet gave me extra ABs to have on hand in case of another incident. I know it is not best medical practice or good for the environment to overuse ABs but with older cats there has to be a balance between maintaining emotional/physical health and following best practices. Within a week of starting the ABs, her BGs were back to double digits too.

If ABs work for Gandalf, it doesn't matter whether he has bacteria, a UTI, or fleas. If they work, use them. You're too smart to overuse them.

BTW, even though the vet said this was a pancreatitis attack, I continued to give her Wellness. She likes it; it's the only food she will eat in fact. It didn't seem to halt her recovery in any way.
 
Terri, thank you for taking the time to write about your beautiful Lucy - what an amazing story! I admire your fortitude for allowing her the possibility to go peacefully instead of being poked and prodded. I will prefer that for Gandalf too.

I was getting worried because he did not come down out of the 300s till this AM. The full moon was Friday and I'm pretty sure that didn't help either. I have also not been good at maintaining a regular shot or dose regime, so it's a quadruple whammy effecting his BGs - moon, possible infection, timing and dose. The moon's past, the infection should be waning and I can correct the timing somewhat and maintain dose for longer before making changes.

I also have to adjust my expectations for him as he's showing his age. He has slowed down but seems content with lying on his window seat or bed or papasan chair which he can jump in to yet without trouble. He is not nearly as vocal as he used to be, saving it for when he's addressed or needs something, like a quick visit to the deck. It's difficult not to miss the things he used to do, but I have to be grateful for what he does.
 
Good news

Thanks Wendy. I have some good news to report. Our curve today was remarkable, considering where his BGs have been. I think the moon influence is finally over for him and the infection must be defeated as he had the first greens he's had in a while with a fairly gentle curve, we even had several good hours of surfing at end of cycle.

Take a look at spreadsheet, you'll be surprised! I know I was. And grateful. And yes, Wendy, we give insulin on 106s and even lower. Once you have the dose established, it's necessary to keep their blood glucose level.
 
Whew! Glad to know things are turning around and he's feeling better.

Yep, I'll have to get used to shooting on low pre-shots numbers! :-D
 
Glad to hear he is back on track Vicky. :)

Terri, sorry for all the trouble you have been experiencing with Lucy. That sounds like it was pretty scary. Good advice on treating older cats differently. Tigger is fifteen and still pretty healthy, but I will keep what you said in mind as he gets older. Hope your Dad is better too.
 
Off track already

HIs PMPS tonight was 374 after a 147 this AM. I felt I had no choice but to slightly lower his dose tonight. I did 1.15U down from 1.25U. That jump was too huge for it not to be a bounce off a low.
 
Vicky, he probably had the "quadruple whammy" down to possibly one issue and got lower number he wasn't used to. It's just a little bounce. Glad he has better numbers (or did, but I am sure he will get back to them).

Terri, I am so sorry that you had a bit of a roller coaster ride with Lucy. I agree with you about "throwing out the rules" for the older ones. It applies to terminal cases as well, I am afraid. You just have to do what your gut tells you will make the immediate issue better since you are not trying for anything more than immediate quality of life. It's a hard mind shift to get used to and your post is a good reminder about it. I know you are facing things day by day, probably, with her now. I felt that way with Murphy in her last couple of months (she had cancer) and I feel that way to some extent with Charlotte who is 17 and 2/3 years old. Hope your dad is better.

Vicky and Pamela, I hope you are battening down the hatches tonight! We are in for a wild ride over the next two days. I am wondering if I should take down my hanging planters? And I am worried about the house in MI because it faces into the storm direction with a 16 foot wide glass wall of sliding doors.

So, everyone in the midwest hang onto your hat! I am starting to hear a lot of wind chimes in the neighborhood now....
 
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