Frustrated

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MaryB & Chester

MaryB & Chester

Member Since 2012
*sigh*
"If you are feeding Friskies and/or fancy feast, it would be a good idea to avoid both of those diet. If you feel you need to do a canned food again consider one that is more nutritionally balanced. Both Friskies's and Fancy feast are high fat "kitty junk food" and they may be contributing to the fluctuation in his BG values. Again, if you have to share diets among the kitties, sometimes doing a senior is the best to share." This is the same vet that tells me cats need carbohydrates and that high protein diets cause kidney failure and are unhealthy.

So I've got my vet telling me one thing, You guys and my internet research telling me another, and my pocketbook doesn't agree with either side. I've got a cat family who won't cooperate enough to establish a family feeding time and a husband who doesn't think we need to make this much fuss over them and that I should just listen to the vet.

I've got Chester on Friskies/FF for four meals a day. I've got Young Again Zero Carb down for everyone else (because I know Chester gets into it too). Chester's BG is all over the place. One day he'll test 130-330 then two days later he'll test 450-590. Same diet all the time. Same stress, same activity, same everything. I skip low shots and his BG shoots up. I give him his regular does and he's all over the map. I try cutting his dose back and he's consistently high, so I take his dose back up and he's all over again. I had about four days of consistent numbers when I ran out of YAZC and had to feed some backup Wellness Core.

I know...I need more tests, more data. I need to wake up in the middle of the night and test him. I need to convince my husband into testing during the day while I'm at work. I have to stay home all weekend and run more curves.

I understand that I'm just a little overwhelmed right now and that this really isn't that bad. I'm just frustrated and I seem to be only one small person of limited means and knowledge trying to battle the rest of the world.
 
It is frustrating, overwhelming and just plain hard. Can't help with insulin, but here is my take on FF and Friskies. Yes, they have by products. Birds and mice probably do also and cats survived well on them for centuries (with no blueberries or sweet potatoes on the side - ingredients in some premium wet food). Cats do not need carbs and would never eat grain in the wild. So I feed FF.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :mrgreen:

Your vet is not there when you feed your cats. I would just agree to disagree and avoid talking diet with him.
 
I tried my cats on the "better" canned foods and they wouldn't eat them. Throwing away food, particularly expensive ones, is very annoying.
Ultimately, you feed what they can eat and what you can afford - my cat is now in remission on a Fancy Feast/Friskies diet - I had her on high-carb for years and I really believe that's what caused her diabeties in the first place.

My husband didn't get involved in the testing/shooting but didn't complain either - particularly as I kept pointing out how much money I was saving by not going to the vet and not buying prescription brands.

As Sue pointed out, how often do you see any member of the cat family snacking on grains/rice or veggies (apart from that yummy kitty grass!)? It makes sense that they need the protein - they are not like dogs (which I think a lot of vets forget), they are a carnivore - plain and simple!
 
Why don't you come over and post in Lantus Tight Regulation board?
You will be encouraged to get more mid-cycle tests but its a busy board and there's always someone willing to help/listen to the frustrations and give dose advice?
 
I will second Denise...been there and tried that, went through dozens of the 'higher quality" food that at least half of mine would turn their noses up at, finally went back to Friskies pate which all 14 loved even if they will burn out on certain flavors that I have to put back for awhile and then they will eat it again later. I have two diabetics one that has been in remission for over 2 years and the other is well regulated on this diet. With 14 it is budget that dictates a lot of what I feed so I'm actually delighted that they all decided on something that allows Maxwell to stay in remission, everyone will eat and doesn't break the bank.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Even though I'm home with mine all day I still don't test a ton of times, at most unless there is a reason to test more often I'm lucky to get 4 a day in before each shot, somewhere inbetween...maybe, and right before I turn in for the night which is usually Autumn's +3ish. It really isn't necessary to test a ton of times every day, as long as you know they are high enough to be safe to shoot, and aren't going too low, then a few spot checks and preshots with an occasional curve should be enough to base dose changes on.

You are also welcome to post over in the Relaxed Lantus board as well, while we are quieter than the TR board there is usually someone around early in the morning and again in the evenings. If you need an answer that is time sensitive and aren't getting it quickly enough then you can always ask it over here on health or the TR group where there are more eyes.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
So if I take up the dry food at night, what do I leave down for him to snack on in case his BG dips low overnight? I can't really leave canned food out all night - it'll get scarfed up (and barfed on my bed) before I even fall asleep. Part of the reason I'm feeding the YAZC is because it's better (in theory) than the other, higher-carb dry foods until I figure out how to manage feeding everybody cans. And until I can get Chester regulated without the random highs and lows that make me worry about middle-of-the-night lows.

I'm sticking with the Friskies/Fancy Feast. I worry that they are a little high in fat and high in phosphorus (kitty hot dogs?)...but at this point, I'm just as concerned with my bank balance. When I get the car paid off, I'll have more money available to explore better options (for everything).
 
Perhaps distributed automatic pet feeders, like the Petmate 5 would help reduce the scarf 'n' barf problem and give the diabetic a chance at the food over the night.

Is there any way to baby gate or otherwise zone the home so the diabetic is in an area separate from the others at night?

Another option would be a pet door into the food area and the only 1 with a collar having the signal could be the diabetic.
 
I leave frozen Friskies down for mine bunch, I feed them a snack as I'm going to bed that is a fozen hockey puck of frozen canned food with the water mixed in it, and then 'frost' that with fresh food, the fresh they can eat right away and the rest they can nibble on as it thaws.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I give a snack at bedtime and then leave food out overnight - sometimes they scoff it all, sometimes there's some left.
I figure out whoever is most hungry, wins :-D
 
For my kitties, I feed them 3 main meals a day (i.e. freshly opened cans and overly generous portions): once at each shot and once before bed. The rest of the day, I just monitor their food dishes and refill a tiny bit as they empty or use timed feeding compartments if I'm not home. I always add water to all their food so it stretches farther, fills them up faster, and keeps them properly hydrated. They don't even "drink" water; the water fountain was the biggest waste of money I've ever spent. :lol:

FF and Friskies are actually not that bad in terms of fat. For example, Purina DM has a 67.2% protein-to-fat ratio, whereas FF Chunky Chicken Feast has 115% protein:fat and Friskies SD Turkey & Giblets has 63.8% protein:fat. So I'm not buying whatever your vet is trying to sell you on. ;-)
 
Please give your vet this link. It sounds like he just isn't all that versed in Feline Nutrition? I'm sure he's learned a heck of a lot more than I have. I never attended college. But I can read and I'm pretty good at using google to find information that is free to anyone who takes the time to search for it.

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS

Cats, like all animals, require six classes of nutrients: water, energy, protein, essential fatty acids, minerals, and vitamins. Cats do not have a dietary requirement for carbohydrates. The metabolic requirement for glucose in the cat is derived from protein (glucogenic amino acids) and fat (glycerol). Cats are adapted to a protein- fat-rich, carbohydrate-poor diet.
Click to expand...

Nobody can say it any more clearly than that.

The site is a wealth of information on what cats do and do not need. It explains clearly why dry food is never appropriate for a cat. It explains the reasons why cats need fats. And proteins. And moisture from food rather than from a bowl of water.

If nothing else, get him to scroll all the way down to the list of references. I don't see "crazy internet cat people" listed anywhere. :lol:

Carl
 
Well, you may not want to hear it but yup, a few more tests are needed because Lantus dosing is based on the lowest point in the cycles, so don't be too upset about the high ps numbers.

There is one test that you should be able to get and that's the 'before bed' test.
What time do you give the pm shot and when do you usually head to bed? those 2 numbers can tell you alot about what's happening in the evenings..... some cats go low at nite, so that would account for the high AMPS in some cases.

If you could do a curve once a week, it would help you a great deal.... just pick a day on the weekend, and test every 2 hrs .... you may even find that the dose is too high and what you are seeing are bounces! You never know till you can see what's going on during those 12 hrs between shots.


I know many people test often and all the time, and even get up in the middle of the nite, but in most cases, it's not necessary.... your cat doesn't know if it a work day or a day off, so what you get on the curve some Saturday is likely what you would see if you stayed home and tested during the week, so don't worry about testing like a maniac; you don't need to do it.

Any time at all, do a test. There doesn't need to be any formal curve being done.
Let's say you DO get up in the middle of the nite.... maybe do a spot test.
Let's say you get up early in the morn to prepare for work and it's not shot time yet..... test as soon as you get up because even a +10 or +11 is good data - it lets you know if the insulin is still working or if the numbers are already very high.

Frustration upsets everyone, but we have all gone through that phase in the start. Just do the best you can and it will be alright.
 
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