Foods best for Diabetes AND Pancreatitis?

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Tooloo

Tooloo

Member Since 2013
Hi Everyone. I've gotten some feedback on this question already but would like a little more. Tootoo is doing really well now, again thanks to everyone here and there advice and support. Pancreatitis is gone (for now - knock on wood), and he's been off insulin now for three days. His BG was 104 this morning, so he's staying in a reasonable range without it. I'm still testing twice a day and will do so for awhile.

The vet advised getting him off the Fancy Feast because of the high fat content, thinking it might have been responsible for the pancreatitis. What a dilemma because I'm also quite certain that getting him off dry food and onto Fancy Feast brought his BG's down considerably regardless of the insulin. I currently have him on Purina DM dry because it's what I have other than Fancy Feast, and it was his favorite thing to nibble on during the pancreatitis. I'll do some research with the food charts but would like to hear what members here have done that seems to have worked over time. Has anyone found an ideal food that won't raise his BG's but won't trigger pancreatitis with it's high fat content?

Debbie
 
Michelangelo got diabetes when he was still a kitten so I was in a similar predicament: he needed higher protein for his growing kitten needs, yet he needed low carb. I took Dr. Lisa's List and I added an extra column for the protein/fat ratio to easily spot the higher protein foods. Mikey seems to do best on anything over 50% protein:fat; anything under and his BGs start to rise. I also have the food separated into different tabs for Mikey's allergies (he's allergic to red meats). Hope this list helps you find some more food options. :-D
 
Ozy has Wellness grain free. He gets asthmatic with grain/gluten. The fat is a little higher than I would like but I can't find anything that is grain free, low carb and higher protein. Eventually I want to make my own food, I think.
 
You can tip the balance somewhat on canned food by adding 1 oz plain poultry or meat to 5 oz of canned food (per Dr Pierson at Cat Info)

Or consider picking up some TCFeline premix to add to your own home-ground cooked or raw. Then you'll have complete control over the protein, fat, carb content.
 
Ok. Thanks everyone. I'll check out charts more too. Donaleen, you mentioned Ozy gets asthmatic. I took my civive Looloo to the vet today because she was coughing lots. Vet did x-ray and said very asthmatic. Prescribed steroid for a couple weeks to get inflammation down. I wish I knew what she was allergic to so I could just eliminate the source. Gluten maybe?

Debbie
 
Worked for Ozy....it was just trial and error but grain free was the answer. His asthma attacks used to scare me so much. Last fall we switched him to Wellness grain/free and the asthma went away. I tried it because I realized that grain was NOT a natural option for cats.

I've been giving him a small amount of ground turkey every day. He LOVES it. I saute it a little. It's a treat for him. But thinking about what BJM said.

BJM said:
You can tip the balance somewhat on canned food by adding 1 oz plain poultry or meat to 5 oz of canned food (per Dr Pierson at Cat Info)

Or consider picking up some TCFeline premix to add to your own home-ground cooked or raw. Then you'll have complete control over the protein, fat, carb content.
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I think maybe I will give him a little more. Maybe two ounces instead of one ounce.

I think good nutrition is the best thing I can do for him and I want to feed him an even better diet. However, I am afraid to make a radical change because he is doing so well (relatively). No throwing up. No diarrhea. No constipation. No acute pancreatitis symptoms. No asthma.
 
donaleen and Ozy said:
I think maybe I will give him a little more. Maybe two ounces instead of one ounce.
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You do want to be careful how much plain protein you give and make sure it's within 20% of the total daily food intake. (This is one of the reasons I sometimes use the Tiki Cat instead of plain chicken breast).

Lisa dvm said:
Hey everyone,

I promised Taisia that I would stop in if I had some time. The reason why I am posting this is because, as most of you have noticed, the commercial canned foods are quite high in fat (cheap) and skimpy in protein (expensive)....all in the name of profit margin.

Remember...."meat" includes very high fat meat trimmings....leaving us with relatively low protein/high fat diets. So, "95% chicken" is pretty meaningless...and deceptive.

A few quick comments:

1) Keep in mind that the calories from protein + fat + carbs must equal 100%. Think of it as a 3-way teeter totter. Increase one fraction and => one or both of the other factions must decrease. Therefore, when you add a protein boost, the fat and carb caloric contribution automatically decrease.

2) Very important: : Plain meat is unbalanced. There is only a tiny amount of calcium, etc., in the meat. Therefore, cats would die on meat alone. That said, if you add in only ~20% of the total calories as plain meat, that should not result in a dangerous imbalance of the average commercial canned diet.

3) 1 ounce of cooked breast meat (low in fat/high in protein) is ~40 calories. Most cats eat around 200-250 calories per day with diabetic cats often eating >300 calories. 40/200 = 20%......40/300 = 13% of total calories

4) If the cat is eating ~200 calories of food per day, replace 40 calories of the canned food with 1 ounce (~40 calories) of cooked lean poultry meat.

5) Jennie-O Extra Lean Turkey Breast is a convenient choice:

http://www.jennieo.com/products/3-Extra ... key-Breast

Correction to Taisia's post:

Mix in to kitty's food once or twice a day for a nice surge of pure protein --
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Limit it to 20% of total calories/day. So if a cat is only eating 200 calories of food, feed 160 calories of canned food + 40 calories of cooked, lean poultry meat. (40/200 = 20%)

If a cat is eating 300 calories off food, then you can remove ~60 calories of canned food and replace it with 60 calories (1.5 ounces) of plain, cooked meat. (60/300 = 20%)

Again, this will give the diet a high quality protein boost while diluting the fat and carbs in the diet.
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Interesting. Hard for me to find time to make my own or even mix meat in with canned, although I'll consider this. Has anyone ever heard of Life's Abundance Instinctive Choice? I couldn't find it on the charts, but came across it online. I called company to get P/F/C amounts, but they were closed.

Debbie
 
This is what I've been suspecting for the longest time - that FF Classic are too high in fat, and despite what most people and vets say - that fat has no effect on feline pancreatitis, I don't believe it. Mine loves FF Salmon and FF Classic Chicken, but when he gets on a straight month of those exclusively, he gets a flare-up. And that's despite getting 250mcg B12 injections twice a week.

The one thing I have left to try is to add ground raw chicken to his food. I am at wits end with this thing, as although I can control his pain and nausea, there seems no way to make these flares go away for long. When he gets them, they are a low-level, not causing anything other than inappetance and elevated BG numbers. The terrible thing for me is that my boy is losing muscle in the rear legs.
 
Hmmm... I think Ozy eats about 10 oz a day of Wellness Grain Free....he is a big cat and a healthy weight for him is not too far under 16 lbs. I don't think his digestion has been very effective and he may need to cut back on food as it begins to work better. Already he isn't as hungry as he used to be and eats less often.

Tooloo, I am buying ground turkey (at New Seasons). I buy .5 lb once a week and make it into 7 patties. That little patty every day is a special treat time for him. But I don't think my life is as busy as yours.
 
donaleen and Ozy said:
Hmmm... I think Ozy eats about 10 oz a day of Wellness Grain Free....he is a big cat and a healthy weight for him is not too far under 16 lbs. I don't think his digestion has been very effective and he may need to cut back on food as it begins to work better. Already he isn't as hungry as he used to be and eats less often.

Tooloo, I am buying ground turkey (at New Seasons). I buy .5 lb once a week and make it into 7 patties. That little patty every day is a special treat time for him. But I don't think my life is as busy as yours.
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For the first time I tried feeding him raw chicken tonight. I have never seen him go so crazy eating something. Going to try to add some to his canned for a while and see how that goes and then if it goes well, start grinding it myself and adding those powdered mixes sold online.
 
Thanks all for your input. I like the idea of adding some fresh meat. It would be easy to do when I'm making it for us too. And really not that difficult anyway. I did do some comparing of foods from the charts. It seems most all are either high fat or high carb or both. And Donaleen, my vet is getting me some B12 to inject on my own. She originally wanted me to bring him by every week for an injection. Thanks again for your offer.

Interesting point about the rancid fish oil. I think it was Nepenthe mentioned it on the other thread. I'd read that somewhere else too. Anyway, lots of good info here. I need to take time to do more research.

Debbie
 
Happy to hear Tootoo is doing better. My Lexie seems to have recovered from her Pancreatitis for now, and BG's have dropped to the 90's and 100's which are higher than what she has been running in the past since going OTJ in 2005. Her BG used to run in the 50's to low 80's so I'm not completely sure she's over the Pancreatitis.

My Lexie has stopped eat the Friskies pate's since the Pancreatitis started and she won't touch it even thought she's feeling better so we are trying out several different food on the food chart. So far she seems to like a couple of the FF flavors, wellness core(she ate this for a few yrs then turned her nose up at it, but she seems to like it again), and Authority. She has also turned her nose up at anything with seafood in it, which is a first. I'm interested to hear the responses to your inquires about food choices.

Tonya nailbite_smile
 
Tonya & Lexie said:
Happy to hear Tootoo is doing better. My Lexie seems to have recovered from her Pancreatitis for now, and BG's have dropped to the 90's and 100's which are higher than what she has been running in the past since going OTJ in 2005. Her BG used to run in the 50's to low 80's so I'm not completely sure she's over the Pancreatitis.

My Lexie has stopped eat the Friskies pate's since the Pancreatitis started and she won't touch it even thought she's feeling better so we are trying out several different food on the food chart. So far she seems to like a couple of the FF flavors, wellness core(she ate this for a few yrs then turned her nose up at it, but she seems to like it again), and Authority. She has also turned her nose up at anything with seafood in it, which is a first. I'm interested to hear the responses to your inquires about food choices.

Tonya nailbite_smile
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One thing I just noticed with out last episode of p-titis, is that his BG goes up to high numbers (300-400) and basically stays there. The problem with that is that it makes it easy to mistake a flare-up for a dose increase (likely, at this time, raising the dose, as per the protocol, might likely cause a high flat rebound. You can see this in my boy's chart for Aug of this year to see what I mean).

So, BG can be a "canary-in-the-coal-mine" as far as being the first indicator of a pancreatitis flare. From now on when I see his numbers go high and flat, I am going to jump on the treatment as if he is having a flare (rather than get a spec fPl).
 
Nepenthe, I've decided the same thing. I just buped him. He is 389 this morning. I think p'titis really complicates treating the diabetes.

It could be a nasty feedback loop... the bounce from the low BG may have triggered the p'titis. And now the p'titis may be triggering the high glucose. It is hard to win.
 
donaleen and Ozy said:
Nepenthe, I've decided the same thing. I just buped him. He is 389 this morning. I think p'titis really complicates treating the diabetes.

It could be a nasty feedback loop... the bounce from the low BG may have triggered the p'titis. And now the p'titis may be triggering the high glucose. It is hard to win.
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What I've been doing in terms of maintenance now that the flare is under control is:

sub-qs: 100ml, 2 days on, one day off
pepcid: 2.5mg/day (sometimes 2x)
cerenia: 8mg one day one, 2 days off
cyanocobalamin: 250mcg 2x a week
transdermal codeine: 2x a day - only when the #'s go high

If he starts to get high #'s again, I will make the sub-s every day and ramp up the Cerenia 5 days on, two off, and codeine 2-3x a day.

Looking at your chart, I wonder if he is getting too much? I notice that there is no mention of sub-qs - have you been getting him some? (that to me, is likely the most important thing, slightly moreso than pain and nausea control)
 
Tonya & Lexie said:
Nepenthe, my Lexie hasn't been on insulin since 2005(8yrs). Just an fyi
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What is surprising is that the p-titis didn't trigger a relapse of the diabetes. (both disease processes seem to involve some of the same things - namely islet cell degradation in the pancreas - and p-titis seems to be connected to amyloidosis)

Mine was dx'd diabetic in Feb 09 and then OTJ until June 2010, all that while tested for pancreatitis with a spec fPl and they always came up negative - until he was hospitalized with it in Jan 2011. Since then, its been an on-again, off-again chronic thing. It is a really stubborn disease in my experience (just like diabetes).
 
Nepenthe, why does he need subcutaneous fluids? That is what you are suggesting, isn't it? The vet hasn't suggested that for him.

Are you talking about too much insulin? That is my suspicion. I think he needs to be dosed more for when he doesn't have pancreatitis. I did take him down .25 the other day after his low number reading.
 
Nepenthe, Lexie BG was running in the 200 to 300's before start tx for pancreatitis. Vet didn't want to start insulin right away. Vet wanted see if tx-ing the pancreatitis would bring down her BG without the insulin. Luckily Lexie's BG went down shortly after giving her sub-q fluids and giving her bup. She seems to be over her pancreatitis, but I'm watching her closely.
 
Treating pancreatitis ..... 3 things needed.
something for nausea/upset stomach
something for pain
fluids to flush out the system.

Some cats and many diabetic cats seem prone to CP, so if your cat has a few bouts, meatloafing, off food, higher BG, vomiting, I think you best keep all 3 items on hand all the time.
You will notice the same signs with your cat and may even be able to ward off a flare by stepping in before it gets too bad.

I was giving my Shadoe 1/4 tab Pepcid AC twice a day. Daily max for cats is 5mg. Giving the pepcid about 30min before the 2 main meals will help settle the stomach and if the cat still seems off, you can check hydration and give a small amount of fluids to see if the cat perks up.
If you are seeing the BG creeping higher, and the cat's maybe hiding or less active, or even if you feel a little growly when patting the cat's sides, you can try a small bit of bupe. Buprenex is the best for the sharp pains of pancreatitis.
Sub Q fluids are usually needed for a few days when the cat has a flare; you will definitely see an improvement from the fluids..... it will remind you of a parched plant that's been freshly watered.
Fluids are needed to clear up the pancreatitis, so get a kit from the vet and give at home.

I was advised by a vet to give Shadoe B12 shots weekly as it's great for inflammation and that's pretty much what pancreatitis is.... giving her 25u shots weekly resulted in no more big CP flares, and she had only one minor flare in the months that I gave her shots. Talk to your vet about all the benefits of B12; it's something you should be giving to all older cats, and it's also helped many perk up the appetite as well.

Gayle
 
donaleen and Ozy said:
Tonya, what is tx for pancratitis?
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Sub-q fluids and i requested bup(pain meds) for her as well as appetite stimulant and she seems to be recovering well. My big problem now is she find a new food for her because she has quite eating the friskies. She's decided not to eat the FF tonight, but seems to like the Authority and wellness.
 
I don't think the problem is to find a new food, but rather to stimulate her appetite. With pancreatitis, cats often just don't feel like eating, so you can hope the appy stimulant kicks in and if the Authority is getting eaten, then stick with that food until she's back to well again.

Gayle
 
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