food strikes and the mystery-pee'er

[MicheleS]

Hi everyone! I've been checking in every few days and it looks like everyone is doing well. A couple more OTJ's may be on the horizon! Great news!

WHile SOccer is still OTJ, I'm having cat-behavior issues. There's a myster pee'er which I suspect is Soccer. However, it might be a little cat we ook in in Oct... tho' don't know why she'd start now... My known pee'er is still on prozac and is doing well so I don't think it is him. Everyone has been banished to my screened in porch 'till I figure out what to do. :YMSIGH: It is warm down here and the porch is big so that's not a concern... However, they are not happy out there (all the time) and now they are going on food strikes. This is crazy-making.

So, I need (non-medical) advice!

This is what I've done:
1. Cleaned everything with Nature's Miracle.
2. Tried to give positive attention to them. (even though I feel like rounding up the lot of them and sending them to a shelter... would never actually do that but I'm pissed... no pun intended).
3. Cleaning all 4 litterboxes everyday.
4. Limiting access to the kids' rooms. (the scene of some of the crimes)
5. Tossed the toaster... yes, someone peed in the toaster. I want to vomit. :-x

Can you think of anything else? I'm thinking of rotating who comes in/out to try to figure out who is the perp. :roll:

thx!
Michele cat(2)_steam

PS. Peeing in the house for non-medical reasons is a bit of a deal-breaker for me. I wouldn't ever get rid of a cat for it but I'm OCD about house-cleaning and just can't live around this type of thing. If this doesn't get sorted out, they will all have to be banished to the (large and very nice) screened in porch and/or laundry room. :sad:

 

[Joanna & Bix (GA)]

Sounds awful!!! Though somewhat entertaining to read about it :lol: Sometimes I have thought it would be handy to have a "litter cam" - maybe you need something like that! Wire your house, lol, with motion detector cameras (of course the kitties would probably find a way to fake out the cameras, or would get distracted by the noise of it following them and then alter their behavior).

Random thoughts:

- Get a urine sample tested on everyone. When I have had rogue pee-ers it has at times been infection-related.

- Try Feliway - they have a plug-in dispenser (or at least they used to) that wafts the pheromones around. I could never tell that it helped with my crew, but might be worth a try regardless. You can also spray the areas where they go (I never tried this cuz I figured.... won't they just go somewhere new then?)

- If there are specific spots (I used to have a marker) I used to tape up a doggie piddle pad to cover the area, then when it got marked I could just toss & replace. Looks a little weird (yeah, I didn't really invite people over for dinner parties, lol) but it worked for me as an easy cleaning solution. Of course this wouldn't work for kitchen appliances.... ohmygod_smile

The food striking too makes me wonder if there is a medical issue. My cats at least have never let stress/grumpiness stop them from eating!

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

Very frustrating. We had one who unloaded on a nice computer monitor that then dripped down into a keyboard. Yuck! Luckily the monitor company took the monitor back on warranty! Can you imagine the poor soul who opened up THAT box?!!! That one also unloaded into shoes [bad kitty]!

So DNA testing popped into my mind. It's maybe not as crazy as it sounds. DNA based testing is becoming very reasonable - about $100/test. There is only one place I know that does it but I'm sure there are more. You can call Zoologix and ask them if they can do what you need http://www.zoologix.com/dogcat/ or ask if they know anyone who can. It sure would be an interesting new "product" for Zoologix to offer. Hint: Zoologix has wholesale pricing for vets and shelters. And I know they offer tests that are not listed on their website [like Helicobacter panel for instance].

I don't have to tell you that there are many potential medical reasons for the peeing. We had "one" doing it and thought it was the "other." Meanwhile the "other" was sent in for cystoscopy of her bladder [$$] and nothing was wrong. Fast forward months and it turns out it might have been the "one" all along. Sooooo, just make sure you get the right one. Another thing that pops into my brain is to potentially have the urine looked at to see if there are blood elements in it? I'm envisioning you taking in your toaster to have it analyzed... lol

Joanna's camera idea isn't so bad either. Costco has an 8 camera system on sale right now [through their web site] for $400. And Costco has very liberal return policies...

 

[Ele & Blackie (GA)]

I used to have a rogue peeer that I had difficulty finding where he went. If you have this problem, they make a capsule that you can give them and it make their urine glow under a black lite. If you did this one at a time, it might tell you which one it is. And I also used underpads that you can buy at Walmart to protect the furniture. Of course, I guess that would now be the furniture on the porch. I know your frustration. I was tempted to re-home my kitty. Then I found out that he was marking because his sis was peeing in spots because she had bladder stones. It was sad. We all do the best we can. I hope you can find the culprit and fix it.

 

[MicheleS]

<snip> I guess that would now be the furniture on the porch. I know your frustration. I was tempted to re-home my kitty. Then I found out that he was marking because his sis was peeing in spots because she had bladder stones. It was sad. We all do the best we can. I hope you can find the culprit and fix it.

I'll get over the furniture on the porch being stinky. I just wish I could catch someone doing it.

Very frustrating. We had one who unloaded on a nice computer monitor that then dripped down into a keyboard. Yuck! Luckily the monitor company took the monitor back on warranty! Can you imagine the poor soul who opened up THAT box?!!! That one also unloaded into shoes [bad kitty]!

<snip> I don't have to tell you that there are many potential medical reasons for the peeing. We had "one" doing it and thought it was the "other." Meanwhile the "other" was sent in for cystoscopy of her bladder [$$] and nothing was wrong. Fast forward months and it turns out it might have been the "one" all along. Sooooo, just make sure you get the right one. Another thing that pops into my brain is to potentially have the urine looked at to see if there are blood elements in it? I'm envisioning you taking in your toaster to have it analyzed... lol

Joanna's camera idea isn't so bad either. Costco has an 8 camera system on sale right now [through their web site] for $400. And Costco has very liberal return policies...

Ha! The computer! what a mess. Whoever it is pee'd on DS's stinky soccer cleats. The cat pee almost smelled better! LOL! I wish I had the $$ for a camera setup. Alas, I don't. I'm pretty sure that there was no blood in anything. At least not visible. I can't fathom getting a urine from all of them. And, DH is no help. I will, however, do a full work-up on whoever is doing this... as soon as I figure it out. Soccer's WBC isn't elevated so I don't think he has a medical reason. To be honest, I'm tempted to give them all antibiotics! *That* would be easier than a UA on everyone! Hmmmm. that's got me thinking... a bottle of long-acting ppg and a package of syringes... hmmm...

 

[MicheleS]

Sounds awful!!! Though somewhat entertaining to read about it :lol: <snip>
- Try Feliway - they have a plug-in dispenser (or at least they used to) that wafts the pheromones around. I could never tell that it helped with my crew, but might be worth a try regardless. You can also spray the areas where they go (I never tried this cuz I figured.... won't they just go somewhere new then?)

- If there are specific spots (I used to have a marker) I used to tape up a doggie piddle pad to cover the area, then when it got marked I could just toss & replace. Looks a little weird (yeah, I didn't really invite people over for dinner parties, lol) but it worked for me as an easy cleaning solution. Of course this wouldn't work for kitchen appliances.... ohmygod_smile

The food striking too makes me wonder if there is a medical issue. My cats at least have never let stress/grumpiness stop them from eating!

We use feliway already for Mr. Prozac.

The thing with the food-striking... they do it when they are *all* outside. But, if I juggle the cats, then they eat. Annoying as hell.

The piddle pad thing would make me nuts. really nuts. I'm too neurotic for that. :roll:

sigh.
ANy other suggestions??

 

[Gator & H (GA)]

I'm pretty sure that there was no blood in anything. At least not visible. I can't fathom getting a urine from all of them.

I was thinking to only have the mystery pee-er's looked at - then you *might* know if the pee-er had something up. I know little about cat pee but can't blood cells be seen under a microscope? Maybe it wouldn't take a full analysis? Of course as Joanna pointed out you may have the original mystery pee-er and then sympathetic pee-ers too. So that would blow my little Walter Mitty scheme out of the water.

 

[MicheleS]

I was thinking to only have the mystery pee-er's looked at - then you *might* know if the pee-er had something up. I know little about cat pee but can't blood cells be seen under a microscope? Maybe it wouldn't take a full analysis? Of course as Joanna pointed out you may have the original mystery pee-er and then sympathetic pee-ers too. So that would blow my little Walter Mitty scheme out of the water.

I did work up Gary (aka Mr. Prozac) completely when he started scent marking. He liked to pee on the front door and my bag I take to work. He did the stand and pee a tiny bit move (tail-shaking and all of that). He'll also do it in front of you like an "up yours" move. Prozac has made him much more mellow and I'm not seeing the behavior or finding pee in his regular spots. Soccer had a workup when he was dx'ed in Jan. No high glucoses since then. I doubt an infection since then.

The new pee-er likes the kitchen counter and the boys' closets. He/she also peed on DS's easter basket (on the friggin kitchen table) the night the bunny left it full of candy. Thankfully, it was the basket of my oldest so he accepted payment for his loss and all was well. ohmygod_smile

I could do a urine dipstick to see RBC or a slide but I haven't been able to "collect" enough. The toaster didn't yield a sample. ohmygod_smile And, well, carpet and easter candy aren't great for recovery either. ohmygod_smile

But, if I ever figure out who it is, then I'll work them up. Hell, I may just cart in 2 of the likely candidates (out of 5) to a friend in practice and cut my losses. I dunno...

Just really frustrated.

 

[Hope and Aria]

Nanny cams are fairly cheap nowadays and you could move it to different spots. Just trying to think outside the box (somewhat like the mystery pee-er... sorry, lame, but I couldn't resist)

My Ari is our resident pee girl. She likes to pee on electrical cords. It's a fabulous stench when that area gets warm. Ugh! I pour the vinegar directly on those surfaces. The chemical reaction turns the ammonia to water. It also soaks in and is an antibacterial and cheap.

 

[Kelly & Oscar]

We were in a very similar situation here a few years ago. My civie Daisy was on amitryptaline once a day (kitty prozac so I'm told) because we thought her peeing issues were all behavioral. Turns out she was dehydrated just enough to make her urine a bit too concentrated. She must have associated discomfort with the litter box. I have since found out that she also does not like covered litter boxes and certain types of litter.

So my suggestions: Try adding water to your wet food and add many water bowls around the house - and change them daily. My Daisy is a water snob, which contributed to her issues. Also try out different types of litter, or buy a different style of litter box and use both at the same time and see if one cat has a preference for one over the other. Doing these two things solved my issues. Hopefully it will help you some!

 

[Joanna & Bix (GA)]

He'll also do it in front of you like an "up yours" move.

If his butt is towards you (ewwww) I'm thinking he is kindly marking you? I have had two who do that, but thankfully (whew!) no pee actually comes out. I have always interpreted it as a friendly move, though I'm sure I would change my views if they actually peed on me. (This thread is SOOOO entertaining in a really gross way!!! :lol: )

When I used to troubleshoot computer stuff one tip I was given is to divide the problem in half and then work it that way. So maybe let 3 at a time indoors and keep 2 on the porch? Then figure out whether the porch or the house smells worse ohmygod_smile . So if you could narrow down the guilty party to one of 2 or 3, then you could narrow down the selection from there, or focus on a smaller set of urine samples, etc.

Of course maybe it's one of those things where xyz will only pee when abc is on the prowl, so splitting them up for troubleshooting purposes could defeat the purpose, but it's a thought.... (or maybe it would give you a clean house AND porch!!! and no food strikes!)

 

[Hope and Aria]

When I used to troubleshoot computer stuff one tip I was given is to divide the problem in half and then work it that way. So maybe let 3 at a time indoors and keep 2 on the porch? Then figure out whether the porch or the house smells worse ohmygod_smile . So if you could narrow down the guilty party to one of 2 or 3, then you could narrow down the selection from there, or focus on a smaller set of urine samples, etc.

Of course maybe it's one of those things where xyz will only pee when abc is on the prowl, so splitting them up for troubleshooting purposes could defeat the purpose, but it's a thought.... (or maybe it would give you a clean house AND porch!!! and no food strikes!)

Joanna - that's genius!! I love the divide and conquer theory. Either way, you could get more data. And seriously, with already having a FD kitty, you know how to keep and interpret data

 

[Nancy and Cody]

I was able to figure out the mystery peeer at my house using ketodiastix. Cody's urine has sugar, Tenderfoots does not.

Come to find out, Cody had a nasty UTI which is resistant to baytril.

If the food strike gets bad, fortiflora sprinked on top might help.

 

[Sarah and Buzz]

The toaster?!?! I can't even imagine how that went down, but I sure wish you'd had a hidden camera for that show!

My only suggestion was Feliway; I (thankfully) don't have experience with mystery pee-ers. I imagine it must be very frustrating and I don't blame you a bit for keeping them on the porch while you figure out who the culprit is. I like Joanna's idea of divide and conquer, though.

Good luck, and let us know what you figure out, both regarding solutions and who the bad misguided kitty is. ;-)

 

[MicheleS]

Yesterday afternoon I let Soccer in (from noon-7pm)... no pee. Then I let Kohl in from 7pm to this am... no pee. Overnight I put Little Kitty and Cricket in the laundry room to give everyone some space... (Cricket is the aggressor to the other cats.) I left everyone on the porch this morning and will likely repeat yesterday's "rotation". heh. I need a spreadsheet for this. ohmygod_smile

 

[Nancy and Cody]

Both of mine (brothers) prefer to stand and pee on the wall of the litter box. I've always assumed this is a BOY cat thing, ( never having had a girl cat). So, if 'someone' managed to pee IN the toaster, and IN soccer shoes, i'm guessing this anatomically should be a boy cat. I'm guessing here, but does this match with reality? Maybe this could fast forward the 'subsets' for suspicion.

 

[Marvie and Tugger]

Sounds like your most recent plan might be the best. I've got five too... but I pretty much know who it is if I find pee. Tux is a revenge pee-er so he'll pee whenever he's unhappy about something in his life. I usually know because he will do it right in front of me. cat(2)_steam

I used to use Nature's Miracle and then switched to straight vinegar for cleaning up pee/spray but about two years ago I was given a much better solution. We went out of town for ten days and the "friend" who was supposed to stay here and watch the three cats and the great dane... did NOt stay here, did NOT clean boxes and did NOT let my dog outside for pottying. Which none of them really needed to do all that much because the @#$%^ didn't feed or water them much either.

Needless to say, I came home to a huge freakin' mess. I thought the carpet would have to be ripped out. It was nasty. Have you ever seen a Great Dane pee puddle??? Imagine ten days worth.

Then one of my knitting community friends gave me a recipe for the stuff she's always used to clean up pee, I tried it and I will never go back to anything else.

Here's what she posted to me when I asked for pee cleanup help:

take a scant cup of hydrogen peroxide (the regular 3% kind you can get at the drug store), and 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda, and a few drops of dish soap or other liquid soap. That last is just a surfactant, so it doesn’t really matter what you use - the active combination is the peroxide and baking soda. And yes, I used it for cat pee not dog pee, though I’m sure it’s good for both - mercaptans is mercaptans. I don’t know what effect it’ll have on yarn, but it sounds like there’s nothing to lose here.

Remember that this mixture is… um, I forget the technical term, but it isn’t safe to have around in closed containers, so mix it fresh and use it all up.

I found peroxide in 32 oz bottles at my grocery store for super cheap regular priced so I buy several at a time and keep them in stock along with the industrial sized bag of baking soda hubby got at Sam's Club.

Yoou have to soak the carpet really really well so double, triple, whatever the recipe. I quadruple it for the dog and double it for a cat spot. You have to get the pad underneath soaked through too or it just won't work. I wear garden clogs and do a pee-pee-clean-up dance in the spot after I pour the solution on it. I let it sit for about an hour and then I take a big thick towel and repeat the dance using the towel to sop up the excess. Once in a while I have to do the treatment twice, but that's usually because I didn't use enough solution and didn't get the whole spot.

This can lighten carpet because of the peroxide. I haven't noticed any lighter colored spots on my carpet... but it's been a while since they were steam cleaned so who knows what they'd look like clean. My carpet is brown so it hides a lot but I'm pretty sure if the solution had bleached it I could see it somewhere. We've got lots of sunbeams in the room too though so maybe the sun fade and the peroxide fade have blended, I dunno. Just test first to be sure or don't let it sit very long. I don't know how long is effective and how much is overkill, I don't care about our carpet so I just don't worry about it. If it's ruined, I get my hardwood floors that much sooner

 

[Joanna & Bix (GA)]

ROTFL!!!!! The Pee-Pee Carpet Dance!!! The Toaster Pee (how is that even possible? must have taken some serious determination & tricky maneuvering!)

Marvie, with "friends" like that..... ! Gosh that would really steam me. cat(2)_steam

 

[Marvie and Tugger]

We haven't spoken since. Her "apology" was "I'm sorry you feel that way" and well... that just wouldn't do for me.

I'm still puzzling over the Toaster Pee myself heheh. I'd have pitched it too... gagging all the way to the trash can.

 

[Joanna & Bix (GA)]

I'm still puzzling over the Toaster Pee myself heheh. I'd have pitched it too... gagging all the way to the trash can.

Perhaps it is a delicacy somewhere... Toast a la Pee Jus? (ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww).... maybe it'll show up in our Would you rather Wed's one of these days hehe.... WYR have pee in your toaster, or in your tennis shoes, lol? Or all over your computer, ewwww! There's a fierce competition going on here I think for grossest pee attack!

 

[Donna & Buddha]

I've found this thread so amusing! I've been reading and thinking I am SO GLAD that I don't have a cat that goes outside of the box. (Lemur will perch on the edge and will squirt the wrong direction, but in comparison to YOUR stories, not a problem at all.)

Now today, I'm using the den computer and sniffed, and this corner smells a lot like cat pee. Damn.

I think hydrogen peroxide and baking soda is what the kids use to make volcanoes in their classrooms. Handy to know it has other purposes.

 

[Marvie and Tugger]

You can use it to clean your drains out too :mrgreen: