food queries UK - long post, sorry!

[tqfan]

Hi

are there any guidelines to follow regarding amounts of food a diabetic cat should be getting??

i see the lists of the food that would be good for diabetic cats here on the site, but how would i know how much to feed, if i switched to those??

my cat has been diabetic for nearly 2 years, but in oct/nov last year she started drinking more and peeing more. there was glucose in her urine.

the vet took her in for a glucose curve and decided to drop from 3 and a 1/4 units (caninsulin) twice a day, to only 2 units twice a day. i personally thought it would have went up. it was then increased to 2 and a half units, and just on monday there, was increased again to 2 and 3/4 units. it will obviously take a few days for us to see an affect, i believe.

today i had a conversation with the vet and basically she said the cat is eating too much and not at the right times.
i then asked the vet, if we've been doing it that same way for nearly 2 years, why has the issue happened now? she could not answer that, unfortunately.

i also mentioned that the food she is on (royal canin diabetic dry and wet) the dry is high in carbs (apparently, found info on the net somewhere, here maybe? i believe it is 18%), but the wet is not (3% i believe), so i asked if we should cut out the dry food and feed wet only, but she insisted that the cat should be on dry only (as that is what their other diabetic cat and dog patients are on).

there is also the issue of her weight. she weighs around 9kgs now. when she was first ill, the vet said she was around 6kgs, but she had lost weight due to being ill (diabetes and a mouth infection), and so she would gain that weight back. she is a big cat, we think she is part maine coon, and apart from some fat around her belly, she doesn't look fat otherwise, i've seen fat cats on the internet, lol. she is also not podgy, it is hard, like it is muscle. all we hear from the vet is that other cats are typically *this weight*. that's like saying all humans should be the same =/ but yes, if she were to lose some weight, great. she is 15 now, 16 in may, and has arthritis in her right back leg, so exercise is somewhat limited for her. she does a good amount of limping some days though =(

the royal canin food is supposed to be calorie controlled, and we give her what the vet told us, so for them to now turn around and change their mind is disheartening. we want to do best by our cat.

they vet has also always insisted on low water consumption, but quite a few people on here have asked what the reason for that is. i don't know, the vet won't give a straight answer on that either. it does not help we see a different vet each time, and they tell us something different and contradict each other...

as for my cat, Kizzy, i did have a post in the new member section i believe, and i was having discussions about testing her blood ourselves. we attempted it twice, but the bugger doesn't bleed enough!! i then hurt my back not long after that, and was not very mobile (still in some pain now) so attempting the home testing went out the window.
the cat is also not very accommodating, everything is on her terms, or nothing. even giving her her insulin in the beginning was hard, she would run and hide! thankfully she does not care about the injections anymore. to put it into a bit more perspective, we moved house 11 years ago and she broke free from the cat carrier (almost broke it) and hid in the garden. it took us a week to catch her... she came from a somewhat feral background when she was about 12 weeks old, and it took about 2 weeks for her not to hide from us. after that, she is an affectionate cat, loudest purr ever, but try to do something to her and bam, she changes.

so yes, try as we might, home testing might not be an option for us, unfortunately. we lost our other cat in 2009 and we know for a fact we'd be able to do it with her, she would let us do anything to her, hehe!!

so, just trying to give some info and back story, in the hunt for answers. if you can point me in the right direction of the food info, that would be brilliant! as would any other info/help.

thanks

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Gillian,

Just wanted to give you a little info now. Because Caninsulin drops blood glucose hard and fast at the beginning of a cycle many vets prescribe a high carb food, with most of it being fed just before injecting the insulin so as to reduce risk of cats becoming hypoglycaemic. The Caninsulin/high carb dry protocol is, unfortunately, more suited to the treatment of canine diabetics. Part of the problem is that Caninsulin is the only drug officially approved in the UK for the treatment of feline diabetics. Other insulins are available but under drug cascade rules a case has to be made to demonstrate that Caninsulin isn't working for the cat before a prescription for an alternative insulin can be issued. For example my cat, Saoirse, was first treated with Caninsulin and then Lantus (aka insulin glargine).

You will find that the members on this site advocate a wet-only, low carb diet. I would urge caution if you were to go for a diet change from part-dry to wet-only low carb when you are not testing blood glucose concentration at home, the reason being that the change may result in sudden and marked lowering of blood glucose. In such a case, the Caninsulin dose your cat is currently receiving could be too high. It's definitely something you should discuss with your vet because they may need to adjust the dose of Caninsulin your cat is receiving. I note that Kizzy may be less than enamoured at the prospect of testing, so that's another thing to consider.

WRT weight, here's a link to a pictorial body condition chart. It should help you to assess whether or not Kizzy is overweight. To the best of my knowledge, the amount you need to feed your cat is enough to maintain ideal body weight, and ideal body weight is where the cat's body condition is at its optimum - certainly not a 'one size fits all'. When it comes to a diabetic cat, the carb density of food is significant in terms of choosing what to feed but also the characteristics of the insulin the cat is receiving must also be factored in. The insulin type may also influence when to feed. (Caninsulin certainly does. It tends to drop blood glucose hard and fast in the early part of the cycle and the cat needs to have enough carbs on board for the insulin to work on to keep the cat safe.)

I haven't a scooby as to why your vet is advising you not to give too much water. Perhaps other members may comment on this again. As far as I understand, cats typically don't drink enough water when they're on a dry diet (note: I don't know whether underlying health problems may affect drinking, or the amount of water a cat should drink).

For great advice on cat nutrition, visit Dr Lisa Pierson's site, catinfo.org. There's a section on the website about diabetic cats, too. Hope some of the above helps.

 

[tqfan]

Just a quick reply and thank you for yours.

Just to add, that Kizzy has lost about 1kg in the last couple of months. She had a urine infection in November or December (my excuse is that I am tired and can't remember properly! It is mentioned in my intro thread), although she did not stop eating, just kept peeing, haha! And I can't quite remember when we weighed her before that, but she was over 10kg when weighed. Not exactly a fool proof way of doing it, but my sister weighed herself, and then weighed again while holding the cat. We did this again last week and found she weighed around the 9kgs. If we are over feeding her, surely she would not lose weight?! I will get that chart on the go tomorrow too, and get second and third opinions from the rest of the family, too!

She did drink a lot of water pre diagnosis, in comparison to our other cat who we never saw drink! To be fair, she also ate more dry food then our other cat, too.

Again, thank you, I will go over your reply again tomorrow, when on my computer, and better able to see the links you posted.

 

[Critter Mom]

Glad to help. After Saoirse was diagnosed, I got a very reasonably-priced digital baby scales off Ebay so that I could monitor her weight at home. Wish I'd got one years ago.