Food - how much? and typical progression of glucose numbers

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hummys

hummys

Member Since 2019
Newly diagnosed (1 week ago) and for the most part, I think we're doing ok. His insulin is 1 unit, twice a day (just started Lantus today from Novolin N last week). Glucose at diagnosis was 455 and yesterday at the vet was down to 317. I initially purchased a FreeStyle Freedom Lite monitor, but found an AlphaTrak2 for not much more (and the strips are less expensive) and decided to go with that one since we just getting started. The meter should arrive today and we'll start testing him this evening.

Have two questions that I hope you can help with.

I realize that every cat may be different, but I was wondering if that is a typical progression in the glucose numbers. Is that slow and if yes, does that indicate anything in particular?

Also, I'm a little confused about how much food to give him. Pre-diagnosis he would get a small can of what I thought was healthy wet food and a 1/4 cup of dry food, twice a day. I would also give him 2-3 unhealthy treats once or twice a day. Now, I bought low carb (4% or lower) wet and we're transitioning him off of the dry - as of this morning, he only had 2 tablespoons of dry. I'll give him the same for dinner and then no dry starting tomorrow. For the last week, he's been getting a small can of wet and decreasing amounts of dry, twice a day. I'm still giving him treats, but freeze dried chicken ones. My question is starting tomorrow when he's getting all wet, how much do I give him? The vet suggested 1 1/2 cans twice a day. Is that enough food? Puss is currently 16.5 pounds and given his size the vet (previous to the diagnosis) said that he should be closer to 15 pounds.

Appreciate your advice.
 
the answer to your "progression in glucose numbers" is in one of the yellow sticky notes at the top of the Lantus forum .. it's a lot to read but will pay you many dividends if you go back and re-read those every so often

how much to feed? there are general guidelines about how much, for a cat without diabetes, however one of the hallmarks of this condition is that cats cannot absorb all the nutrients in what they eat, so they have to eat more to compensate, stay healthy otherwise, retain their muscle mass

example -- Catcat, who should be getting something like 300 calories a day (stable at 12 pounds, optimum for him is 14) -- is getting around 400 calories/day -- 2 cans of 5.5 ounce LC food, one can of FancyFeast pate, plus some no-carb treats (whitefish, bonito, and dry sardine) and occasionally half a home stewed chicken thigh

your cat will tell you how much he needs, make sure if he loses any weight he does it very slowly, otherwise he might be at risk for developing ketones -- make sure you have a supply of strips to test for that -- there are other factors that can affect that as well -- you will learn :)

glad to see you've transitioned to Lantus, for us it has been wonderful
 
Welcome @hummys and hi @CandyH and Catcat !

Which sticky were you thinking of? in which forum? I am interested too because Macka's "progression in glucose numbers" has not been optimal and I'm curious to see what they say. I understand it can take some time to normalize, and that AMPS and PMPS values are the last ones to go down. However, there is still some obscurity here :)
@hummys yes in general the progression is slow, very, unless you're lucky enough to have a cat that decides to go into remission right away (and you have to closely monitor these ones!). The dosage increase needs to be very slow too, in order to keep your cat safe. Your cat may bounce from good numbers, you'll see (it happens to Macka every d*** day). It's a process that requires patience, unfortunately.

Regarding the food intake, I learnt that my cat needed 360 cal/day for 12 pounds. I thought it was too much, and a crazy amount of food. But only with this amount does he stay at a stable weight. As long as they're not controlled, they need the calories as it seems! It's hard to have him eat all this food, I have to split it into smaller meals throughout the day, glad I'm at home right now. @CandyH and Catcat is right.

Good luck!
 
I know you are eager to see better BG numbers, but a caution here, removing the higher carb dry food and replacing it with a lower carb wet food abruptly can lower BG significantly and you should do it gradually. And, a very important and, be testing consistently so that you know what's happening. You don't want to have a too low BG event if you can help it.

The others have told you about unregulated kitties not being able to process food efficiently, so more frequent, small meals work well. I would mark every can with the total calories and carb % so I knew how many calories he was getting every day, and what the carbs were. One small can, (what brand?) twice a day might not be be filling him up or provide his caloric needs right now. If you are at work in the day, you can get a timed feeder with ice pack and have food available for him. Works very well at night too.

Please get the spreadsheet set up so that you can start recording the insulin doses as well as the BG testing results
You will see how the trends and patterns emerge, and members can review his progress before offering suggestions or advice:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

If you have any problems, there are members who can help with set up or do it for you.
 
for Lantus, start with this sticky
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/

@Penelope and Mačka the daily progression of BG that I was referring to, is about halfway down in that posting

as far as I know, there's nothing really that shows the progression of BG over time (days, weeks) because as we all know: ECID !!! every cat is different
best you can do is target one cat, look back through their history, look at their spreadsheets .. and even so, it's up and down and roundabout

this sticky talks about the two different procedures that have worked for people here, over time
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

listen to what Lou says about change in diet too, you may want to transition a little more slowly,

I didn't -- but luckily we did a curve at the vet right away, when I pulled him off dry food (Nutro MaxCat) and onto FancyFeast pate .. and found out right away the insulin dosage of Vetsulin (2u) was way too much for him
I was lucky, vet checked for ketones though didn't advise ME to check, and he was already getting lots of water mixed into his wet food
 
some cats, lucky cats :cat::cat:, go into or near remission right away after a change in diet
some take weeks, some take months, some take YEARS (seven? ten? never give up)

seriously, it's on the job training -- with a bunch of others who've gone down that same path, offering what they know, suspect, or have experienced

friends here keep telling me to "put on my patience pants" and "it's a marathon not a sprint" -- three and a half months in and I'm still a relative newbie
 
Thank you, will look at all of the links when I get home from work. How will I know how many calories he should have... will it will be in one of the stickys?

Idjit's mom - I'm currently giving him different flavors of Weruva, 3 ounce cans. Only the ones with 4% carbs or lower.
 
I don't remember reading calorie info in the stickies, but have read in many posts that it's about 20 calories per pound of ideal weight. However, since Puss is not regulated yet and is not using those calories efficiently right now (and is probably very hungry) it is going to be ok to give him more. You don't want to overfeed though and have him barfing, so you might either make foodsicles in an ice cube tray (mix with a bit of extra water) and leave some out for him to snack on while you are at work. Or look into one of the timed feeders, and use that for meals when you can't be there or at night. I use the CatMate C20 and others use the PetSafe brand. My feeder has a little ice pack that you put under the 2 food trays, it keeps the canned food chilled during the day or night.

I just looked at the cat food database and see that the calories column is missing, so I am guessing the recent ingredient changes in some of the products have affected the information available there. You may be able to find calorie information on the product websites.
 
most cans have the calorie label on them, and check also on Chewy.com, there is a tab for "nutritional info" and also there is often an answer in the question section, further down that page
 
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