Food help

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Emilyskor

Emilyskor

Member Since 2013
I just got the call back from the vet confirming my cat has diabetes. This is something I've been expecting over the past week judging by his latest attitude and sudden insatiable thirst. So I need help! First of all, I am completely scared of how much this is going to cost me. Secondly, I really am having a hard time coping with having to give my cat insulin. I feel like I have completely failed as a pet owner/mother/best friend/buddy.

I was wondering what to do about food. I'm new to forums so I apologize if this is an old topic... I just have a ton of questions, and I'm sort of just throwing them out there!

Tiki cat brand cat food - anyone know anything? I've decided I wanted to feed my cat good, wholesome food vs. the crap prescription you get at the vet. I was wondering,... Tiki Cat is high protein, about middle if the road amounts of fat and little to no carbs. Are there any other medical issues I need to be on alert for from feeding my cats a high protein diet? I just worry that in like five years, I'm going to be treating him for something else due to the diet again.

Other foods I've looked at are BFF, Weruva, Innova, Tiki Cat,.... They are all low carb options that I found at the nutritional pet store. Does anyone have any experience with any of these?

Also, salmon oil...ok??? I've given my cat salmon oil on his food in the past, it has really made a difference in his coat. Should I keep this up? Suggestions???

Thanks all for any help... I'm lost
 
Hello, and welcome to FDMB!

Firstly, please let me reassure you that you have NOT failed your cat in any way. On the contrary, you have discovered that your cat has diabetes, you've got online to find out about it, and you've joined the FDMB forum (the best site on the planet for advice and support on feline diabetes ;-) ); so I think you're doing pretty well!

Feline diabetes is treatable, and a cat who has a committed care-giver can live a normal happy life.

Regarding cost; there are quite a few people here who are on a tight budget and who still manage to treat their cats' diabetes. Yes, there are costs involved, but it is possible to save money in all kinds of ways: Some supplies will be cheaper bought online rather than from your vet; It's not necessary to feed prescription 'diabetic' food - ordinary low carb canned/wet is just fine; And it's possible to save a lot of money in vet's bills by learning to test the cat's blood glucose at home (not nearly as hard as it sounds!!! (And it doesn't hurt the cat at all.))

Regarding insulin shots, these will be given twice a day. It is easy to learn to give shots. Honestly. And your cat will probably not even feel it, especially if he's tucking into a bowl of food.
Some of us here were 'needle phobic' (me included!) and were worried about handling syringes and actually giving the shots, but it's amazing how - with just a little practice - it becomes routine.
The routine of actually giving the shots twice a day, and how to work that into your schedule, is something that takes a bit of thought initially; but you will find a solution that works for you and your cat.

If you're in the US then recommended insulins are long-lasting types like Prozinc, Lantus or Levemir.

Food: We aim to feed low carb wet/canned food with less than 10% calories from carbs. I don't know the brands you mention (I'm in the UK), but many people in the US feed Fancy Feast. There is a list of US foods and their carb percentages on the forum so you may see the brands you're feeding there (can't find link at the moment, sorry...).
High protein/moderate fat foods are good! (But cats with kidney problems may need something different.)
And salmon oil is fine too. (But some folks recommend giving oil from small fish (further down the food chain) because of concerns over pollution/heavy metals)

One other thing I should say a bit about is 'hometesting' (testing blood glucose at home). Most of us here 'hometest'. There are a lot of benefits to this. It's not hard to learn, it won't hurt your cat, it will give you a greater control and understanding of your cat's diabetes, and it can save a heap of money in vet's bills because you do can do all the glucose testing yourself!

If your cat is not yet on insulin then you could switch to a low carb wet food now.
If your cat is already on insulin then only switch to a lower carb food IF you can test/monitor his blood glucose at home. That's because lowering the carb content of the diet can lower the blood glucose, and that's something that needs to be monitored so that the insulin dosage can be reduced if necessary.

I do hope I haven't overwhelmed you with too much information... I may be rambling because of having drunk too much coffee this morning.. ~O) ~O) ~O) @-)

Don't worry. You don't need to know or do everything all at once.
Take your time.
It's OK to do things gradually at your own pace.
And please do ask any and all questions you want to. That's what we're here for. :smile:

One last thing...
Quite a few cats go into remission after just a short time on insulin and a switch to a low carb diet. 'Remission' means that the diabetes can be controlled with diet alone. You never know, maybe your cat will be one of the lucky ones!

Welcome aboard! We look forward to following your kitty's progress.

Eliz
 
Unless your vet detected ketones (from fat breakdown for calories), you might hold off on the insulin while you adjust the food.

Cat Info has the food list mentioned (in the column on the right of the page) Friskies pates are one of the least expensive options; Tiki Cat one of the most expensive options.

Home blood glucose testing will help keep your cat safe. While you work on that, see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some tips on urine testing and more to help assess your cat.
 
My cats (FD and civvies) LOVE LOVE LOVE Tiki Cat canned food. I mostly feed them the raw diet but supplement with the Tiki Chicken which they use to graze on through the day. It replaces the dry food I used to leave them between meals. I get it auto-shipped from chewy.com (free shipping) so it comes out to about $1.61 per 5.5 oz can.

I tried the Weruva foods and they got tired of them pretty quickly and some of their foods did affect my sugarcat's bg. The Weruva and BFF pouches are high carb. Stick with the cans.

I also supplement with Wellness Core grain free Chicken-Turkey-Liver canned food and Wild Callings! canned food which is cheaper and low carb to give them variety.

We use Norwegian Salmon Oil in the raw food recipe. I think Dr Pierson talks about why Norwegian Salmon Oil is better than regular salmon oil on her website catinfo.org

Keep asking questions and welcome!
 
Interesting. What kind or raw food do you feed? I've tried primal and Stella and Chewys.. But after a review of Primal, I was a bit surprised about the amount of fat. I also get a lot of raw food produced in the Seattle are, where I live.. Good stif!!! Mostly, what I'm finding is, a lot of the fish flavors have a lot less carbs... But what about phosphate.. I've read that high phosphate levels may cause kidney issues down the road. I'm a little worried about that because that's the last thing I want!!!

I was literally just diagnosed two nights ago, so at this point, I'm all about doing what I can to prevent insulin and medication. I understand, at this point there probably isn't a way to not go that path, but I would much rather treat with nutrition than anything else. Also, my cats are LOVING the Tiki Cat!! I do too!

I'm excited/nervous to talk to the vet tomorrow. I have so many questions!!!
 
I make and feed my own raw food based on the recipe developed by Dr. Lisa Pierson and described on her website at catinfo.org.

Basically it is ground chicken thighs with half of the skin (to reduce the fat) and some of the meat chunked for dental purposes. I also add raw liver and then the supplement mix which includes egg yolks, taurine, salmon oil, B-50, lite salt and vitamin E. The only meat and liver I trust is from Whole Foods.

Cats should limit the amount of fish which is also explained well on catinfo.org. I am glad you like the Tiki. I do slip in some of the Ahi Tuna Tiki food during the week. Especially for males, a fish diet could cause kidney problems down the road.

I hope things go well with the vet tomorrow.
 
Good luck at the vet tomorrow..

Key things to ask

1. What kind of insulin is he thinking? We recommend Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc. Vetsulin and Humulin are not good for cats and Glipizide even makes the diabetes worse.

2. How does he feel about home testing of blood? This is key to keeping your cat safe, especially when many go into remission!

Also here is a list of foods that are low carb and the ones under 250 phosphorous are good for cats with kidney issues http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94685
Wendy
 
Hey, thanks for the link to the food list. I don't know if I am ready to make my own food, however I am starting to entertain the idea.

I was finally able to talk to the vet. I was able to get all of my cat's vet records over the past years, that included a few blood tests. It appears, and the vet confirmed, the diabetes probably only started since June. While, he will still need to treated eventually, since it hasn't been too long, she mentioned it may be better for remission! I am hoping that is the case!!!

The plan for now is to continue with a low carb diet for the next two weeks. In two weeks I am going to take Chibi in for some blood testing. We are going to see how he responds to the low carb thing first. Unless something seems odd happens before, or if I get too paranoid, I can bring him in sooner. I do have to mention, the first treatment option i was offered is euthanasia.. which I found odd coming from her. I get that diabetes is much to manage, but you really don't have to make it seem like it the worse thing ever. I was quite angry after that. My cat is only 8!! ugh...

I like the Tiki Cat. I think I will stick with that and get some other food to feed him. I started keeping a food log and monitoring Chibi's eating habits. He seems to be OK.. doesn't have any symptoms that seem alarming at this point. I think I am just gonna keep researching! At this point, there isn't much to do until I take him in for more blood testing.

Thank you all for the help so far! The links, the personal responses.. this is very appreciated!
 
Emilyskor said:
...I do have to mention, the first treatment option i was offered is euthanasia.. ...I was quite angry after that. My cat is only 8!!...
Click to expand...

That happened to us too.
Bertie was diagnosed at the age of 8 and the vet who diagnosed him suggested euthanasia.
Thankfully, prior to his diagnosis being confirmed I got online and found people - including the wonderful folks here at FDMB - who were successfully managing to care for their diabetic cats.
Bertie has been diabetic for almost 7 years now; and that's 7 years he'd not have had if I'd taken that vet's advice....
Hooray for the internet!

BTW, what's your name? And your cat's name?
And do we get to see a pic of the fella..? :smile:

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Emilyskor said:
...I do have to mention, the first treatment option i was offered is euthanasia.. ...I was quite angry after that. My cat is only 8!!...
Click to expand...

That happened to us too.
Bertie was diagnosed at the age of 8 and the vet who diagnosed him suggested euthanasia.
Thankfully, prior to his diagnosis being confirmed I got online and found people - including the wonderful folks here at FDMB - who were successfully managing to care for their diabetic cats.
Bertie has been diabetic for almost 7 years now; and that's 7 years he'd not have had if I'd taken that vet's advice....
Hooray for the internet!

BTW, what's your name? And your cat's name?
And do we get to see a pic of the fella..? :smile:

Eliz
Click to expand...
 
oops - I didn't mean to just quote that!

My cat's name is Chibi, he is my little love cat! - and my name is Emily.

Since the diagnoses about a week and half ago, the vet and I talked, and she recommended that I try the new diet for two weeks and bring him in for more testing. His next vet appointment is next Sunday. He has adjusted well to the new diet. I've been feeding him low/zero carb foods. Brands he loves are Weruva, BFF, Tiki Cat, and I've also continued feeding him the Primal ad Natural Instinct Raw brands. He still seems pretty lethargic.

Today, i went and picked up a glucometer and have begun home testing. I fed him this morning around 7:30 and didn't do the first test until much later (11:30 am) after I read the directions and watched a few more videos. I have to say, that is the easiest thing in the world. I can clearly see his vein and he didn't mind me doing it at all! His number is still high. 4 hours after eating, it was 310! so I am not really sure what to do now... I am going to test him every two hours today, and three times - morning feed time, noon, and evening feed times for the next week until I get back to the vet and get some insulin.. My goal is to have some information on him going into this, so hopefully determining his dose wont be so hard to do. I've been tracking what I've been feeding him too... Basically, just keeping a log of what I've been feeding him and how much. My vet was surprised how much research I've been doing on this. And I feel like, even after the first two weeks... not to talk myself up... but I feel like I may know more than she does... I mean, I get it.. she's a doctor.. but thus far, she has not offered up any mind blowing advice that I haven't already read about. It is a very odd relationship. I don't want to find another vet at this time. The one i go to is affordable and with websites like this and others, I think i will be just fine!!!!

Here's to hoping the future gets better!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Fantastic that you are home testing! Welcome to the Vampire club! Given that he has been on a wet low carb diet for awhile and is in the 300s, I would consider starting insulin. The thought here is that you may a limited window to enable the pancreas to start working again.

To keep his numbers and your notes, we have a wonderful Goggle spreadsheet. It is color coded so the patterns are easy to see. Here are the directions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

It's a little tricky so if you have trouble, just ask for help.
 
Welcome Emily and Chibi.

I tried the Tiki cat for a while and my cat tired of it quickly although I was trying to stay with the two chicken flavors.
I had to go find this info as I have seen it numerous times about seafood and male cats. And yes, seafoods tend to have higher phosphorus which could
become an issue later on for any cat.

The only thing with fish and seafood is that you want to limit it to once or twice a week. There are several reasons for that particularly that cats become very addicted to it and then will eat nothing else, as well as the higher mercury levels in fish, plus with male cats too much fish can cause crystals in the urine.
Click to expand...

Dr. Lisa Pierson advises on catinfo.org that the better diet is poultry.
It was because of the Tiki cat chicken and other chicken canned types that I discovered that my girl didn't like chicken that much but she sure loves turkey.

Here's a shortcut shopping list with phosphorus values
I am facing the same issues and trying to not feed to many of the higher phosphorus foods meal after meal.
 
Emilyskor said:
He has adjusted well to the new diet. I've been feeding him low/zero carb foods. Brands he loves are Weruva, BFF, Tiki Cat, and I've also continued feeding him the Primal ad Natural Instinct Raw brands. He still seems pretty lethargic.
Click to expand...
I agree that low/zero carbs are best. My cat's BG was the most steady on low/zero carbs.

Unfortunately, most brands are not very low carb (3-5% carbs or more is still high in my book, and even 3% carbs spiked my cat's BG 20 points or more).
-Natural Instinct Raw and Primal raw are not low carb (5%) - they have veggies like squash, carrots, also berries and one brand even has honey in it.
-Tiki Cat chicken says it is low/zero but I haven't tried it to know for sure. Seems pretty good!
-BFF is also low/zero carb but they are all fish recipes. Some cats can't handle a lot of fish due to sensitive kidneys.
-Weruva has potato starch in their meat flavors (3% or higher carbs in all of them, some up to 9% carbs) but they do have 4 fish flavors that are less than 1%. Outback Grill, Marbella Paella, Asian Fusion, and Mack & Jack.

The only brand I've found that has low/zero carbs with no fish (my cat's BG is the same on this food as homemade raw food) is Nutro: Natural Choice soft loaf pates. I feed Turkey, Chicken, and Duck but they also have Turkey & Cod or just Cod. They are all low/zero carbs (ingredients are meat, liver and vitamins/minerals - that's it!). Mr.Cat loves duck the best! :-D

As for the lethargy, it may take some time to improve. Mr.Cat was lethargic for a while, but once he was well-regulated (stayed less than 150 every day for a few weeks), his energy came back. :-D
 
If he isn't on insulin you don't need to test that much - 1-2 tests a day will tell you enough. Maybe one day test before and an hour after food too to see how his BG changes after the food.

he isn't getting any dry at all right?no treats?

Wendy
 
Different suggestion here than Wendy made about the testing since your cat is not on insulin.

What about treating this like it's an OTJ trial? When we have cats on a trial, not getting insulin, we suggest you test at what we would call the pre-shot test times, and then again at +3 to see if the pancreas is producing it's own insulin to bring the BG numbers back lower and into a normal range.

I realize you are not giving shots, so just pick a time and think of that as your first test time, the "pre-shot test time". We want the test to be non-food influenced, so no food for 2 hours before this first test of the day. Then go ahead and feed and test at +3.

I think that would be more useful data than testing 1 hour after you feed. ECID, but with Wink, at +1, his BG numbers have barely moved but I do see a drop at around the +3 time frame.
 
Wendy&Tiggy - no dry food! The only treats he gets is one Greenie when I give him his shot. I know those aren't what I should give him, but at least he is happy for the time being. I found a list of no carb treats that I am going to explore. Until then (probable tomorrow) he will have the Greenie. I've toned it down on the testing. I think I scared the crap out of him on Sunday and I probably went a bit overboard. I did apologize to him for that! By the end of the night, he was totally stressed and I got a high number. Not good... I get it. I tested him before and an hour after he ate breakfast this morning and both times hes was in the 200s.. I also came home at lunch and tested him again at noon. Again, he was in the mid-200s. I didn't test him around dinner tonight. I think I may need to do some more research, his ear is a bit red...Normal??? I decided I will test him again before bed, just to see, but he definitely doesn't like that fact that is mom went crazy!

This whole thing just makes me nervous. I am trying to do everything and absorb everything I can, but I think I'm trying to hard.

Jess and MrCat - He's been doing fine on the wet food. I look for the food flavors that generally have 1-3% carbs. I will look into the Nutro going forward. So far, I haven't been able to see the nutritional chart for the soft pates.

Deb & Wink - Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to test before and after each meal. The only issue I think I'm going to have is work. I need to come up with a plan to test before I go to work in the morning!


Thanks again all!
 
This whole thing just makes me nervous. I am trying to do everything and absorb everything I can, but I think I'm trying to hard.
Click to expand...
Emily, of course you are nervous! Perfectly natural to be nervous when one of our beloved family members is sick, be they humans or furry. Sounds like you are just like most of us, trying to do our very best for our kitties when they first are diagnosed with diabetes.

Take it one step at a time.

I highly recommend deep breathing exercises. Deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release. Repeat as needed. As caregivers to our diabetic cats, this can be a very stressful time, especially in the beginning. You need to remember to take care of yourself first so you can take good care of Chibi.

Deb & Wink - Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to test before and after each meal. The only issue I think I'm going to have is work. I need to come up with a plan to test before I go to work in the morning!
Click to expand...

You know your schedule so much better than we ever could. I realize that you may not be able to do the suggested +3 hour tests on work days. Perhaps, you could do a few of these +3 tests in the evenings on days that you work or on the days you are not working.

Please remember that if something we suggest does not work for you, to let us know so we can brainstorm and come up with other ideas. ECID means not only Every Cat is Different but Every Caregiver is Different. We want to find workable solutions for you as well as your cat.

OK?
 
Relaxation Breathing​
- based on the information in "The Relaxation Response" by Herbert Benson, MD.

Begin by sitting in a comfortable chair with good back support, or lying down. The key thing is to have your body pretty much straight between hips and shoulders so your lungs have room.

Now, breathe out completely. That way there will be room for a full breath in. If you start with half filled lungs, taking a deep breath in won't feel very large.

Pause.

Slowly, take a deep breath.

Pause.

Slowly, exhale.

Repeat, and establish a pattern of slow, deep breathing. Give yourself a good 20 minutes (turn off the phone, close the door) to get into this process. If done at bedtime, you may drift into sleep.

By slowing and deepening your breathing, you often cause the heart rate to slow and relax, muscle tightness to ease away, and blood pressure to decrease.
 
Thanks for the breathing tips... it doesn't help that I am waaaaaay too high strung for this situation.

Well I did it, I just gave him his first dose of insulin... Wow, all I can say, is I am glad the first one is out of the way! It wasn't so bad, I was just nervous and of course, he knew it, so he was nervous too! I did a few practice shots with the vet last night, but actually doing it for the first time was scarier than I anticipated.

Chibi's BG level was 234 at 4:00pm, he ate some food - Weruva Cats in the Kitchen - Chick a Zee - Then I gave him the shot of 1 unit at about 4:30, and now I am waiting to check is BG again. I'll do that in about two hours or so. He is still picking at his food. I have noticed that in the past week, he doesn't seem to be acting as starved as he was the first week.

Does anyone have any tips on how to get the insulin cheaper? I paid $192 for Lantus (glargine) and it expires in 28 days. That is not really what I was expecting. I know there would be some higher costs, but with all the research I've been doing, I wasn't expecting such a high price for a 28 day window before it goes expired. I am now a mess because realistically that doesn't really fit into my budget. Can I use the insulin past the 28 days? I find that to be a bit extreme!

Also, what experience do you have with Lantus (glargine) - I know most cats get prescribed to lantus - what kinds do you use, and how long do they last? Does anyone do any cat insurance plans? DO they help?

I also picked up some of the Nutro, Natural Choice Soft Pate food from the store today. I calculated the carbs.. there aren't any! Thanks for the advice Jess and MrCat! - A couple questions about the food though... does anyone else feed that to their cats? Does anyone know anything about the actual carb percentage or the phosphorus levels? I cant seem to find anything online, and these kinds are listed on the cat food composition chart. There is some Nutro, but not the soft pates! I figured I'd at least buy some and return it if it wont work!
 
No, it doesn't expire in 28 days, that's just all they tested it for in humans.

If you keep the Lantus on a stationary shelf in the refrigerator, you will get a good 4-5 months out of it, maybe even 6, before it's effectiveness begins to wane.
 
I agree with BJ on Lantus duration - I can personally attest to the vial lasting 4 months in the fridge (before my pet sitter dropped it). but now I use pens that last even longer.

However you cant calculate the % calories from carbs as fed from the can. Because those are minimums and the number can vary a lot more than that. The only reliable way is to contact the pet food manufacturer and see if they will give it to you. Fortunately Dr Lisa Pierson, a vet in the US, has already done this and created this sheet http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. You want to look at column C (% calories from carbs) and you want it under 10% although we prefer under 8%.

Wendy
 
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