Food and OTJ kitties

Discussion in 'Honeymooners / OTJ' started by Kathy and Kitty, May 12, 2010.

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  1. Kathy and Kitty

    Kathy and Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Kitty is now happy with a FF/Evo 95% mix. That's great. (At least until Procter & Gamble messes with Evo! They just bought the company.)

    Question: If I decided to feed him something slightly higher carb -- under 10%, but not as low as 3 or 4% -- and his numbers went up slightly... Would that somehow throw him off the OTJ cart and send him out of remission? Or would he come back down if I went back to the original diet?

    I'm trying to figure out how delicate his OTJ status is with regard to food. I will never feed HI carb, but he'd have a few more choices if I could go to 6 or 7 -- like Blue Buffalo, which some cats seem to like.
     
  2. Marvie and Tugger

    Marvie and Tugger Well-Known Member

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    Dec 31, 2009
    I feel safe experimenting with Tugger a tiny bit because he seems to recover from anything hubby throws at him when he's not paying attention, even the last day of his trial! I also know that Tugger will go up if I feed over 5% (on juice it would send him blue if we fed 6 or 7% so I avoided it) but I'm feeling pretty comfortable with feeding it to him once in a while soon if I can find some he likes in less expensive varieties because feeding FF to the five of them is painful. I couldn't find any of the 30 cent cans around here lol. I won't spend extra to feed it though. I'm only considering it because Friskies comes in bigger cans but they are slightly above his usual 5% and they will sometimes eat Friskies if nothing better is offered. One 13 oz can feeds all three floor feeders nicely. We're too fresh into this just yet to fuss with his food but once we've gotten closer to a month... I'm thinking about it. Unless someone says it's a bad idea that is. I figure I can try it and monitor him a bit more than usual to see how it does him. If it's not good I can just not do it again. But, again, Tugger's proven he can handle it through several accidental feedings of high carb by inattentive hubby.

    Your Kitty may be different. I know you aren't fond of testing but if you think Kitty's strong enough in his OTJ to give it a try, do it on a day when you can check before feeding, an hour after (or whenever his food spike usually kicks in) and again a few hours after just to see what he does. If he does go up you'll know his threshold and if he doesn't you can experiment again once in a while to find out where his threshold is.

    It's also tough to find much of a variety for this crew with the various needs and restrictions, so if I can open it up a bit with just a couple of percentage points I'll be all over that.

    Mine won't touch Evo. I tried it on my sis's three cats (buncha piggies) and even they wouldn't touch it with the dog's nose. I guess it's the fat? Texture? I dunno but they all hate Evo... oh, and Wellness too. ohmygod_smile
     
  3. Nicole & Baby

    Nicole & Baby Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Excellent question.. I am the same as Marvie, I really don't have any issues experimenting with their food - Baby is on Raw Chicken/Rabbit & Wellness, I sometimes will feed other foods too, I don't think it will hurt to vary it up a bit - no HC like you said though ;-)
     
  4. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2010
    I think this is one of the ECID siturations. I saw the list that said under 10% and that's what we bought. When Hank was on insulin, he seemed to run a bit higher than alot of the other kitties..especially BABY.and Scrabble, but you know what I mean. he was in the 80's-90's...not the 50's. Now he seems to run mostly in the 60's and 70's, more often than not. Wellness had alwasy been his staple food, but now he will even turn his nose up at it sometime. He seems to prefer core as a no-brainer he'll eat this type sure thing food. It is closer to 8% carb vs wellness closer to 4-5%. Probably why he likes it better. I alos feed Holisitc select, which is in that same range and a few others. My guess is, Kitty is not the senstive one as much as his bean :D .
    Your BG may go up if Kitty eats 7.5% carb.his will probably not change :lol:

    Has he been that sensitive with regards to food & his numbers? I forgot if so. I think what is really key is making sure they eat...small mini melas throughout the day. I have to remind Hank to eat. Another things I've learned, is that he seems less hungry during the day. But he eats late before bed plus all his overnight food is gone. That's a new awareness. he's a night eater like me!

    Kathy...6 or 7% isn't high anyway...that's only 2/3- of the way up the LO-Carb scale. It's all lo-carb food. Now that their pancreas is working on it's own, they can do this.
    Marvie, Tugger could bring hismelf down if he at a whole birthday cake...you can't guage by him. Nobody's the tank Tugger is.
    Well, maybe Baby...who would drop to 32 or something after.

    ok, there's my 2 cents for the moment. :)
     
  5. Nicole & Baby

    Nicole & Baby Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol: Betty you are super cute & funny, Baby is the lil drama momma! Thank you for making me smile :D
     
  6. Kathy and Kitty

    Kathy and Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    I don't think Kitty is super carb-sensitive. Some kitties will go up to the 300s when they get high carb. But I also thought that 10 was mid-carb!

    I'll give him a few more weeks OTJ, then maybe give him a lick of something at 6 or 7.
     
  7. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2010
    Kathy-

    10% and under is low-carb
    medium maybe 12 or 13 -18%
    High carb is above 18% + for my hypo kit i tried to find 20%+

    It's all just playing around and figureing out what works. His pancreas is working ....just experiment and try some different things out...test right after, then again in 3-4 hours to see what the numbers are and how he processes it.
    maybe you shuld skip the test right after part...the spikey would freak you out.

    All that matters is how they overall process there food and what ranges they stay in most of the day. For all I know Hank has had higher numbers, i just didn't test at the time and catch them.
    It depends how much you really want to know. if you don't want to see the number, then you can test strategically for your own comfort zone.
    if you want to know what Kitty is really doing at different points, then you can test to see.

    I don't think you need to wait a few weeks. He's a good healthy boy.

    I learned Hank's BG seems lower at night..which is when I mostly test him these days. If I tested in the AM...I might get a who other kind of number. But in the end...I just know he feels godd and is doing good, so not sure it matters.
     
  8. Kathy and Kitty

    Kathy and Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Betty, thanks.

    One of the reasons I'm interested in maintaining this forum is that I wonder how fragile the OTJ status is. Hank was diabetic for only a short time, but Kitty was on insulin for 15 months. I would love to have a clear understanding about what derails OTJ kitties, so I can avoid every one of them! :D

    He stayed green for several months before getting off the juice -- but then he spiked up at the last minute (well, only 127, but it was unusual), so I know food affects him. It was the FF Tender Beef that was the culprit.
     
  9. Marvie and Tugger

    Marvie and Tugger Well-Known Member

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Knowing the reason for the spike is great though =) At least you didn't have to freak out! And you can avoid that flavor of food ;)

    I'm pretty curious about the stability of the OTJ status myself. I feel like Tugger's pretty strong now and that not a whole lot could de-rail him at this point but I'd like to be aware of potential pitfalls or signs to watch for. Plus, I'm sure he won't be my only FD kitty forever ;)
     
  10. Kathy and Kitty

    Kathy and Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    I have volunteered to help FDMB maintain a master google doc of the spreadsheets of all OTJ kitties -- i hadn't even known that existed! I'll be getting trained next week. I think it would be great for this forum to help encourage all OTJ'ers to maintain their spreadsheets. Think how much we could learn from their experience!

    I'll post next week when I'm up to speed, so everyone's spreadsheet can get added to the master list.

    (I volunteered because I'll be so much better at that than giving guidance to newbies!)
     
  11. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2010
    Kathy-
    Hank is STILl diabetic...just diet controlled. You are right, we were not on insulin that long...but my guess is he was diabetic for quite sometime before it was caught. Even then I didn't get him on insulin right away and he got very very sick. He was just an untreated diabetic for some time.
    it is all good and I want to know too. I have no idea how we got here...you can speculate, but don't know for sure. Was it dry food, his weight, did he have pancreatitis, or just pre-disposed. I don't know how or why he got it for sure. And I'm not sure why he suddenly needed less insulin or how I am keeping him OTJ now.
    My guess is we can't know for sure and ECID applies here just like with the rest.
    It's possible what you say is true and if i fed Hank even lower carb his BG would be even lower. It may be some of his higher numbers were stress related.

    One thing CD menioned to me was also to exercise them to bring numbers down. That is another tip I forgot to mention.

    If we figure out that there is A way...well yes i want to know it. But how do we know for sure.

    Ab's can make some cats have higher numbers, others no reaction.
    Of course with the stories i've heard about dentals & possible relapse, I am scared (ie: Alex). But I also know NOT doing the dental is bad.
    Oy VEY!


    PS: I am just reading about your updating the spreadsheet. Please let me know if I can help. I am with you, I'd be much better at that also...so let me know.
     
  12. Kathy and Kitty

    Kathy and Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Thanks, Betty, I will. I suppose now that Kitty is OTJ, I might actually... TAKE A VACATION! :eek:

    I like the idea of this OTJ forum because, while ECID, the more we talk about our OTJ kitties' experience, the more likely it is that patterns could emerge -- for example, how many OTJ kitties come through dentals fine? :D In other words, we're not chatting. We're doing RESEARCH! :mrgreen:

    Very busy with work over the next couple of days, so I may lay low... but will be back shortly. :D
     
  13. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    feeding a higher carb food may or may not throw kitty off the otj cart. some kitties tolerate foods with a slightly higher carb content than others. some kitties have been known to do better with a slightly higher carb count. ECID.

    if you feed a food with a higher carb count, test afterwards to see if his numbers rise...
     
  14. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    i wish it were that simple. lol!
    this is another one of those ECID things.
    alex is so carb sensitive. she never gets anything over 4%. i consider foods with 7% - 10% carbs as "hc" for her.
     
  15. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    i've seen quite a few kitties return from the falls because of illness, infection, a needed dental, or being fed kibble. any of these *could* cause kitty to need insulin again.
     
  16. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    please don't be afraid of having a dental done. alex relapsed last year because i neglected to notice she needed a dental. she had been OTJ for almost 3 years at that point. needing a dental is what caused the relapse. having the dental done and a short stint on insulin sent her back to the falls... until her recent bout with liver and kidney disease.
    don't let your guard down. once a diabetic, always a diabetic...
     
  17. Marvie and Tugger

    Marvie and Tugger Well-Known Member

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    Dec 31, 2009
    And this is why Kathy's right =) We need this forum and these discussions! Those of us who haven't been here very long and with everything happening so fast for our babies... we just haven't had the time to read as much and understand as much as some who have been dancing this dance longer. I'm grateful for the chance to keep learning =) I'm loving these discussions!
     
  18. Michelle & Scrabble (GA)

    Michelle & Scrabble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 10, 2010
    This is awesome, great to know! So happy we can have these discussions too!
     
  19. Kathy and Kitty

    Kathy and Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Hi, Jill! Thanks for adding some clarity to that question. Even though Kitty was on insulin a long time (I had plenty of time to learn), I always ignored the OTJ condos. Didn't want to get my hopes up. So I learned nothing! :lol:

    Kitty still has those dental issues, which we have decided to watch, rather than treat. I'll need to pay close attention to his BGs and take nothing for granted.
     
  20. Gina & Yittle (GA)

    Gina & Yittle (GA) Member

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    Dec 30, 2009
    I've found Yittle is pretty durable when it comes to carbs now that he's OTJ. He's been averaging in the upper 60's to 70's most of the time. He was in the 80's and 90's when he was sick with the cold/virus and had the leg injury, I assume the pain could do that. He's back down to his normal range now though. His usual food is Friskies and Fancy Feast that is around 7-8% carbs. Once a week he gets 9-lives tuna (Tuna Friday!!!! :mrgreen: Some of the seafood flavors go 0-4% carbs, one of the chicken flavors is 5%. He gets fed 6-8 times a day (usually closer to 6) and he's given 1/2 can of FF or 1/4 can Friskies at each meal mixed with water. About once a day I give him a 8-11% carb flavor but usually I give the rest of that can to the others. He even sneaks a kibble or two from time to time, heck when he stopped eating last week I LET him eat some Iams Multi-cat kibble thats 25% calories from carbs since I hadn't been able to get more then 1oz of food down him in the previous 24 hours. I also with the vet's blessing let him have a dose of laxatone when he was constipated. Didn't make his numbers move an inch. The other day he was in the 50's and acting almost like he was borderline hypo, which being OTJ didn't make sense - it was when he'd just started eating again so I figured it was low due to lack of food. He had all the old hypo symptoms (ears cold, shaking slightly, distracted, not listening to his name etc). I broke out a can of 15% FF Elegant Medleys Chicken Souffle which he devoured, perked him right up.

    While ECID my evidence for Yittle supports the theory that for him at least - in the time that he's been OTJ (Since November 30th 2009) that anything from 0-11% carbs doesn't budge his bg at all. And the occaisional snuck kibble doesn't seem to do him any harm either. I do try quite hard to keep him from the kibble but with 6 other cats, even if I pick it up when they're done you will get the kibbles that fell out of the bowl and rolled behind another bowl etc. Inevitable...
     
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