Food Allergy and other feeding questions

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Mandy S, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Sissy has food allergies that at one time caused her to lick all the hair she could reach off her body. We tried several limited ingredient foods to help her but either didn't happen along the right one or we didn't give it long enough try. We ended up putting her on Hills z/d rx food and her hair started growing back about 6-8 weeks in and now all her hair is back in. BUT...5 months after going on the food, she is now diagnosed as diabetic. We just did her first home test and first shot at home today.
    The last few months she's been really sick off and on. Started the end of April, she's been very difficult with feeding because she started boycotting the/zd food. So we've tried a few other things, but finally out of desperation we started feeding her shredded boiled chicken to entice her to eat, and she has eaten very little cat food over the last week...but she has eaten. We've noticed she's been out and among us more acting like she feels better than she has so the food does help. BUT we've noticed today that she is licking herself far more than normal and kind of gnawing on her front legs as she's licking. I'm concerned that the chicken is bothering her. BUT I'm afraid to start mixing her food around too much with different proteins because then I don't know what she will be reacting to. Today in order to get her first shot in, I had to let her eat the shredded chicken...I can't find a cat food she will eat, OR can eat. I'm at a loss as to what to do. I do hope that as her levels come down a bit and she feels better, it will be easier to get her to eat something.

    Next thing, I know we feed her right after testing in the am and pm...but she's a grazer, she likes to eat bits of food through out the day and if she doesn't get it, she starts eating dog hair and that has caused issues with her gust in the past. She will find the tiniest bits of string or bits of something and eat it we have to be SO careful about that. She is horrible about balloon string. If you bring in a balloon, she is right there trying to eat the string. Right now I'm just giving her bits of chicken and offer the cat food we have that's I think Weruva and Tiki that I picked up last night that is just chicken basically.
    The vet told me she needs 342 Kcals a day...but I have no idea how to figure that. I tried a converter and it came up with a huge amount of calories that no way could be right.
    Is it okay that I offer her food thru the day?

    Also, I set up the spreadsheet, put in this mornings number...should I be testing her through the day today or am I supposed to wait some time after we start the lantus to do that?


    Any advice on food allergies like this and managing diabetes....how to feed thru the day....

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  2. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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    Hello. You've done an amazing job this far.

    Advice on the food allergies, start by reading Dr MVD Veterinary Lisa Pierson's www.catinfo.org
    There is all about food and cat health.

    Further when you have figured out what in any food that could cause the itchings e.t.c
    the proper diabetic foods are on this chart.
    https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

    You are looking for those with 5 % carbs, Medium Proteins, Medium Fats.
     
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  3. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    I had allergy testing done on my civvie last December. She is such a picky eater, couldn't chance elimination trial as it would take to long if she stopped eating altogether. Turns out she was allergic to pork which was in the dry food husband was giving her.
     
  4. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    I'm so dense when it comes to all this...where can I learn about medium proteins, medium fats...I'm having trouble figuring out the food nutrition info. :/
     
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  5. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Would you mind sharing the cost of the allergy testing? How was it done? You can message me if you like about cost. All the food trials and stress of it makes me bonkers and I feel so bad for Sissy.
     
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  6. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    It was done April not December. It was done at an urgent care hospital, on weekend, after hours. I don't know if that makes a difference. It was $325 for the test. I do not know if it's blood or saliva they tested. She shredded both sides of neck and ears from scratching and were bleeding. I did not want to wait until Monday.

    Trip always had gunky ears. Treated on and off her whole life 16 yrs. Over the winter FF changed the beef pate (only wet food she would eat). I thought of allergy. Did not know husband was feeding her a lot of dry food. While waiting for test results 2.5 weeks, I stopped FF and the dry. Started freeze dried raw that day (had in house as treat). Scratching stopped, scabs gone. The fur is just starting to grow back.I

    I could kick myself for not having it done sooner. Primary vet never suggested it. Just kept giving ear drops that did clear up wax but that's it. I feel bad she suffered for so long. BTW-hasn't had excess ear wax since.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  7. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Thank you for that information. My vet told me there was some kind of blood test but she didn't order them anymore because they weren't reliable, but there has to be something out there. I felt dismissed. I'll look into it and maybe we can figure it out too.

    My Sissy at FF for years and then around January 2019 she started licking obsessively...ended up almost bald. :( She ate tons of the beef pate and the beef/chicken...with some other stuff in there. But around that time too we had started giving them some dry cat food in the night so they'd let us sleep...so we just aren't sure what exactly started it. It was the Rachel Ray nutrish chicken formula.
     
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  8. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    The tests I'm sure are not that accurate but it does give you some idea. If something comes back positive I'm sure the real accurate ones (skin scratch/patch) would show higher sensitivity. But this was a start and showed some sensitivity to pork, milk and soybean. And many outside things like certain trees, grasses, weeds.

    The FF beef I noticed over the winter changed in texture, color and smell. It stunk so fishy and bad, my cats were walking away from it. The dry was Dr Elseys where pork is the third ingredient and my husband was giving her a lot of it, daily.

    If you want it, insist on it. It will at least give you an idea of what to look for in food, and eliminate it.
     
  9. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    My Waldo had Pica. Only "cure" that worked was to make SURE there was nothing on the floor. :rolleyes:
    Or anywhere else he like to find anything to eat. :oops:
    Waldo is my avatar.
     
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  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Such a handsome boy ... (((Jeanne and Spirit Waldo)))

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  11. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried not feeding chicken? Sounds like thats a big part of her diet. (just typing out loud)
     
  12. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Yeah, we had tried some novel proteins and she hated them. Wouldn't touch any of it after the first bite or two. She has been on that z/d for months so coming out of it the vet just said start with chicken and see how that goes. It's good because if it weren't for the boiled shredded chicken she wouldn't have eaten anything for days. We did finally find something that she would eat. Hubby went to Petco and found her some Tiki Cat Aloha Friends Chicken with pumpkin recipe in a packet. I know she can handle pumpkin because we had to use that when she had the runs a few months ago and she likes it, so thought this would be good to try. She's also eaten some of the Weruva Paw Lickin'Chicken canned shredded food. She licks the gravy off, but then goes back later and eats the shredds. She had some of that today when I noticed her floor surfing for dog hair. It's easy to find on the hardwoods. :/ Hubs also picked her up some Weruva chicken pate, just to see if she will eat it. I know mixing all these foods up probably isn't good, but she has felt so lousy that just getting her to eat anything at all has been a huge challenge. At least it's all the one protein though. That way I know if she reacts badly it's chicken doing it. I'm going to give the chicken a little more time and watch her behavior. Today might just have been a fluke, but maybe not. I hope she can do okay with chicken, it might make it easier once she starts feeling good enough to eat again, to find her things to eat. This food seems to be okay, it's low in carbs, but I honestly don't know much about how to tell if food is good or not. Just learning all this stuff. Like medium proteins and medium fats? I have no idea what that means. I'm hoping I can have time to sit down and search tomorrow and read some more.
     
  13. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Poor Sissy is licking like crazy tonight, so the chicken is going to have to go. What should I try next? And should I mix it in with the chicken as we start to try something new? Poor kitty hasn't licked this much in months. So far no bald spots, but knowing her it could happen soon. My poor baby. I hate feeling so confused and helpless about her!
     
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  14. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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    Try find fresh Bovine meats in ordinary food stores as Beef, Reindeer, Hare, Rabbit and try.

    And no fish or remotely fish oils and egg whites in any form.
     
  15. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    I'm willing to do anything for my Sissy girl, but man...I've been vegan for 8 years and the only meat that comes in this house is for her and the dogs, and that's always been in canned or kibble form. I know it sounds ridiculous but the thought of feeding some of these foods just makes me want to cry. My Sissy baby deserves to feel good though. <3
     
  16. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Does your adorable little Sissy have infant tshirts she can wear? I have a friend who bought then for her "licker" cut off the arms and it solved the problem (for the most part) while she searched for a food her baby would eat.
     
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  17. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Boy do I know that dance!smh Same here with Zoe. sigh
     
  18. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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    Mandy, I am a vegetarian since 1979 since I was 11 yrs old and am now 53 yrs old.
    But still, my Obligatory Carnivory Simba and Gustav, are Not.
    This Site has been Human MD Rebecca Price operated since 1996 and with All Cat Specific Medicine. The Factual Obligatory Scientific Cat Carnivore Culprint is already established for you to read about in this Vet Medicine Journal link.
    https://www.felinediabetes.com/zorans_article.pdf

    We all are Science-Based, and so are you.
    It will be fine, Just take a deep breath.
    :bighug:
     
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  19. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    How about something like this. You can mix the patties in water to any consistency he likes or give the kibble (mine don't like the kibble so much) the kibble is very hard. Also comes in turkey, chicken and rabbit.

    It's what got my 15 yr old addict of dry food and what stopped her scratching her neck to death in April while waiting for allergy test.

    https://www.chewy.com/vital-essentials-duck-mini-patties/dp/177891
     
  20. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Thank you! I will look at that site. I have always been okay with feeding the cats and dogs their carnivore diet. It's just always come in a bag or can before and I've not had to really think about it too much. I haven't actually handled raw meat for 8 years, so when I had to get that chicken for her last week and boil it on the stove it was hard. At least for me. I will do what I have to do for her, no doubt. It's just a lot to take in on top of all I need to learn. Which alone is so overwhelming!

    I will definitely look at that! I tried some food that had duck with it...I think duck and pea, it was canned and she HATED it. But this looks different for sure. Maybe it would work.
     
  21. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    You can make it any texture she prefers, or crumble on top of wet food.
     
  22. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    I could try it. I'm not sure how she'd tolerate it, but if she did it would work well. I haven't noticing her licking hardly at all today, so idk? Maybe she's just been doing catch up grooming since she really hasn't groomed much for quite awhile. Her coat was looking pretty rough. :/
     
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  23. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    My friends kitteth was licking incessantly. Her Vet told her maybe try a thunder shirt. I said try an infant tshirt first (expense wise) She did and it worked. I couldnt see spending all that money and it being a waste. Her kitty LOVES his "shirts" . ECID though ;)
     
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  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yay, a kitteh fashonista! :cool:


    Mogs
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  25. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    He actually is! lol and the shirts fit just sung enough to where they calm him down or he just struts around in them. Its actually quite comical. You dont need to spend a chunk of cash. A slightly snug T seems to do the trick.
     
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  26. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Here is Tux in his (yellow) after abdominal surgery earlier this year. And one made from long sleeve t-shirt (purple) until yellow one came in.

    And PJ after her spay. She became to depressed with the cone. Another shirt cut from long sleeve t-shirt. She never tried to lick, I think she actually loved wearing it.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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  27. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Isnt that a trip? It blew me away. My friends kitty LOVE his T's
     
  28. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    That is so cute!
     
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  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    FDMB Fashion Week. I like it. :D


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  30. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Looks like my girl needs a full pyjama set with long sleeves 'n all. She is not just licking her hair off, she is gnawing at her arms and thighs to blood. Probably I don't have to poke her ears anymore :arghh:
     
  31. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Awwww Poor Mishka :(:bighug:
     
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  32. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Poor thing. I would definitely eliminate any chicken and fish at this point. Keep nails trimmed. Long sleeves and sew up the hand and feet openings so he can't get nails out and scratch.
     
  33. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Just had a thought? What about changing cat litter? I had 2 cats that were allergic to the charcoal that Fresh Step added. When it first came out fresh step had nothing in it. Then 2 of my cats lost the hair on their butts and they starting licking and scratching all down their legs. Fresh Step had just added charcoal to it. Stopped using it and they healed.

    Litters all have stuff added, charcoal, Frebreze, lavender, baking soda, etc. Maybe find a true unscented one with nothing added to it. I open jugs in the store and smell them. I do know Wegmans (purple box) is really unscented and adds nothing to it. It clumps great, but the tracking is a nightmare.
     
  34. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Eliminating fish is not so easy right now, when she has troubled appetite combined with sporadic low BG levels - fish is some times the only thing she would eat. Definitely no tuna, but salmon seemed more or less benign in the past.
    We don’t use any litter, just a sifter.
     
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  35. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/bff-play-ni/

    All of these foods look okay carb wise, right? Under 10%. Several of them Sissy can eat so we're going to give them a try. We actually did one can last night and she ate the entire can of food in one setting. She hasn't done that in months...even a quarter of a can of anything is pushing it for her. lol

    I spent hours yesterday looking at food ingredients and trying to learn how to figure carbs, (still don't have it) and felt like I was going to go crazy. I would think I found something with a single protein or 2 that she could have and then down the list there is tuna oil...why.
     
  36. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Believe me you are not alone. sigh Zoe isnt diabetic but I have spent a fortune on foods she just turns up that cute little nose. :rolleyes:
     
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  37. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hijack your thread :oops:
     
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  38. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    It's the worst! We have spent so much money too trying to figure her out. It's a good thing she has a cute little nose, make it tolerable when she walks away. lol
     
  39. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    yeah especially when it held up in the air!:rolleyes:
    Lil stinkers:blackeye:
     
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  40. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I once spent a ridiculous amount of time in the shop studying labels, only to come home and find one of the cans to be pure tuna. I'm losing my marbles alright.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  41. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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  42. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    The problem with Sissy is she has food allergies, so I have to be really careful about her food. :/ She was on Friskies and FF for most of her life and developed bad skin allergies. Licked most of the hair off her body. We tried for awhile to pinpoint what it was then gave in and did rx food Hills z/d. Started growing back not too long after being on it but also started getting really sick and now she's diabetic. So I'm sticking with chicken because it's not bothering her and adding novel proteins that she didn't have in the Friskies or FF.

    I SO wish I could just feed her the FF. BUT.....she is loving this food from Weruva that we are trying. She hasn't eaten this well in 3 months and so far so good...hoping she doesn't have some sort of weird reaction to anything in it.
     
  43. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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    I'm allergic to pork,fish, milk products, DUST, pollen, grass, fruits, plants, e.t.c myself. And Moist e.t.c. I'm vegetarian though since 11 to 53 so I'll live and get by with eating a limited consisting of nothing.

    Hope the Weruva works.

     
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  44. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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  45. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    Thanks! I feel ya. I've had awful allergies my whole life too. My mom used to joke about my allergy testing saying I was allergic to everything they tested me for except roaches. lol It was true. I had allergy shots for years in jr/sr high. Dust is a huge one fore me. I was vegetarian a couple years, now vegan 8. I think we've talked on the FB page. :)
     
  46. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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    @Mandy S I have grown up in my families woods, farmlands and with all sorts of kitties, sharp guarding and hunting dogs, horses, cows e.t.c e.t.c animals in both Home Denmark and Sweden since birth day 1 in 1968 and I am a Medic and Animal Rescuer. Here is just all my since I was 20 yrs in 1988 own Self Rescued and Self Paid cats, were 4 is my own, 32 years and 25 years old . The others have their own Parents since 2010 and are 10 years old.
    :cat:
    B5B07A97-AF83-4829-97A1-2A06AE269E78.jpeg
     
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  47. Ann & Scatcats

    Ann & Scatcats Well-Known Member

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    @Mandy S Your on 1 U/IE Lantus and with the food testing, Sissy have very fine bg's in the both good safe range around the renal threshold 230.
    Compliments to You and Sissy!
     
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  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mandy,

    Just had a gander at Sissy's spreadsheet. I see that you've had Sissy at 1IU Lantus for a week now so it's time to evaluate how the dose is performing and what adjustments may be necessary. I suggest that you post in the Lantus and Levemir support group and ask for input from experienced members there on Sissy's spreadsheet and dosing requirements.

    Sissy seems to be having quite a smooth response to her Lantus. The ideal path to regulation on a depot insulin like Lantus is to start on a dose that allows the depot to fill while keeping the kitty in safe numbers, ideally getting a smooth curve with a gentle 'smile' shape over the course of each cycle once the depot has been established. If the kitty is not adequately regulated on the starting dose then the dose is increased in small increments (with time between each adjustment to allow the depot to establish properly), gradually nudging the smile curve into better numbers. Unfortunately some cats didn't get the memo: curves are less 'smile', more 'professional trampolinist'. :rolleyes:


    Mogs

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  49. Mandy S

    Mandy S Member

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    I talked to her vet on the phone today, she was back from vacation and had a look at her spreadsheet and said it was looking good...I asked about doing a curve to see about adjusting and she said since I'm moving her shot schedule to wait til I had it where I wanted it and stay on it a week and then do a curve. Tonight I was the last adjustment so we are now on the time I want. I don't really understand why she wants me to wait, is there a reason not to if I've been moving her time? I just moved it back an hour earlier.

    Sissy's bg was 377 tonight. I don't know why...she's had the same foods she's been having the last few days. What causes that, is it just the way it is?
     
  50. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    She could have dropped low around the middle of the cycle and then bounced high. It is their protective mechanism. You'd really like to post in the Lantus and Levemir support group with all these. It is very informative, and experienced people there are willing to help.
    Doing a curve is a great idea. As well as making tests around the middle of each cycle.
     
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