Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76, +4.5 90, +5 119, +6 124

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lynngaut

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone,

Fluffy is on his 3.5th day (7 cycles) of Lantus 1u bid. His pm + 3 is already 86! It's his first green. It seems like his numbers are dropping really fast from cycle to cycle. I even gave him higher carb food for dinner. Usually he gets Wellness Chicken or Turkey which are aroun 4% carb but tonight I gave him Wellness Chicken and Lobster which is 11% carbs I think. He's been grazing on it since his feed 3.5 hours ago - he's always been a grazer.

I'm a little worried (actually completely freaked out) about what his nadir's going to be and if it's below 50, I have my hypo kit ready and I'm prepared to give him some higher carb food/treats/dry food/. Should I be testing him every hour till then?

What should I do about his dose tomorrow morning? Both my DH and I have to go to work and we can't be here all day to monitor him.

Sorry for the panicky sounding message - just feeling over my head at the moment.

thanks for reading
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

MJ+Donovan said:
OK, you DEFINITELY want to get a +4 and see if Fluffy is still diving.
MJ
Click to expand...

Thanks, ok definitely will do and will update as I go. Thanks for that link too.
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Hi & Welcome to you and Fluffy!

First of all, take a breath and don't panic. You and Fluffy are doing really well & you're well prepared.

His nadir is probaby +6 so yes, I would check him until then at the very least. BRB

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Welcome to Lantus Land, Lynn and Fluffy!!

Fluffy might decide to be one of those kitties that doesn't need insulin long now that he's off dry food. He's really settling into 1u very quickly. There are several of us around tonight to help you. I'm on US West Coast time so I'll check in.

If you can just keep posting your numbers in the subject line, that will help. You can take out the a.m. cycle numbers and "Newbiemom scared" because there are a couple of us watching you now. That will give you room to post the numbers.

It's good that you fed a little higher carb to get him slowed down a bit. While many cats nadir at +6, some nadir earlier; without more data, we don't really know what Fluffy will do but it looks like he's fond of +6 ;-)

Turn on the coffee pot, grab some chocolate, and take a deep breath. Try not to worry....we've all been through this and we will stay with you, ok?
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Try not to worry....we've all been through this and we will stay with you, ok?
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

I went to look at your other posts. You're really doing a great job getting everything set up and with the vets. Way to go!

Now that Marje is here you're in good hands, Lynn. I'm going to give Racci her meds now. Will check to see how you & Fluffy are doing later.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Hi Lynn, welcome to Lantus Land. Wow, look at Fluffy go! :-D I know it's scary at first but you will do fine and so will Fluffy. Marjorie is an expert and will give you excellent advice.
Liz, Zener's other mom
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

You've been through the proverbial wringer with your vet! I hope you've found someone new and better informed.

That is a sizable drop between your PMPS and +3. If you can coax Fluffy to snack a bit more on the food you've left out, ideally the numbers will start to flatten out. Seeing these kinds of numbers can make you panic the first couple of times -- I'm sitting here grinning for you but then again, my kitty is a diving champ.

Here's a link to our post on how to handle low numbers. I'd suggest bookmarking it or printing it out so you have the information handy.

Marje's suggestion regarding keeping your subject line is a good one. Several of us try to keep our eyes peeled for situations that can cause people to gite their nails. In fact, Marje is on the west coast so will be around for a while. No one here will let you flounder.
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Lynn....how long as it been since you got that +3? When was the last time you fed in relation to the test?
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Lynn....how long as it been since you got that +3? When was the last time you fed in relation to the test?
Click to expand...

+3 was 45 minutes ago.

I do test, feed, shoot, so the PMPS was minutes before feeding. HE ate from 6:50-~7 EST and then has been snacking a bit ever since. Going to test in a minute. The good news is that he's still interested in attacking my housecoat belt.
 
Re: Fluffy - AMPS 293, +6 149, PMPS 176, +3 86-Newbiemom sca

Ok...I'll be here for your number. Usually we test, then feed so you get an idea how he's responding to food.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76

How long do you normally wait between testing and feeding? I've been giving it about 15-20 minutes, but maybe I need to wait longer?
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

It usually takes about 30 mins to see the effect but sometimes if numbers are really low and we give HC, we might test after 20 mins. For where Fluffy is, 30 mins is good.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Just to be clear, we feed right after testing. Then wait 30 mins before testing & feeding again. Be sure to test before feeding. I'm sorry if this is confusing or I am misunderstanding the conversation. You are going great! :-D
Liz
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Sorry...that was probably not clear. When you test, if he needs food to manage the curve, then you feed right then. Then you would wait 30 mins to test again to see if the food helped.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Hi Lynn & Fluffy and welcome. Just read the posts about your battle with the old-school vet. We're glad you're here!!!!!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Ummmm....I thought you were getting a +4 test? Did I miss three hours somewhere? :lol: :lol: :lol:

If that was his +4, you got him slowed down. Did you feed him after you tested? If you didn't and he's hungry, you could give him some of the 4% wellness to see if he will "surf" these nice, green numbers. Then retest in 30 ok...if that was a +4 test. If it was +6, retest in an hour...but please let me know...I'll be waiting.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Ah, sorry, your answers weren't unclear to my question re: how long from testing until feeding. My own question was unclear :? I was referring to when you're testing before administering insulin, but I understand what you mean about testing and feeding in the case of low numbers.
Thanks so much everyone for your help through this. I'm for sure not getting any sleep tonight but I'm so thankful that it's happing when I'm home and not during the day when I'm at work! And I'm really grateful that you're taking time out of your night to help us.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Ummmm....I thought you were getting a +4 test? Did I miss three hours somewhere? :lol: :lol: :lol:

If that was his +4, you got him slowed down. Did you feed him after you tested? If you didn't and he's hungry, you could give him some of the 4% wellness to see if he will "surf" these nice, green numbers. Then retest in 30 ok...if that was a +4 test. If it was +6, retest in an hour...but please let me know...I'll be waiting.
Click to expand...

Gosh, sorry, yes, that was +4. I caught the mistake a minute after I posted it. Sleep deprivation-induced delirium.

Yeah, actually after I tested, he got up, had a little drink of water, then stood in front of a bowl, so I put down some food. He had a few licks/bites, then walked back to his bed to have a bath. So, yes, I'll test in 30 mins and post the number.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Uh, we have no social life any more. This is our typical evening. :lol: :lol: I'm really glad you are there to monitor Fluffy too. Lucky kitty.
Liz
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Lynn...sometimes we cross post so it's good to continually scroll back through your condo and make sure you got everything.

When administering insulin, you would ideally test, feed, shoot within 10 minutes. Many of us feed while we are shooting SS it gets the kitty's attention...their face is in the food while we shoot :-D you want to be sure and get the insulin in within 15 mins of shooting.

If he doesn't want to eat while you shoot, it's ok. Lantus doesn't onset for about two hours so you don't have to feed right that moment...but it is smart to have food on board at the latest by +1.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

lynngaut said:
Gosh, sorry, yes, that was +4. I caught the mistake a minute after I posted it. Sleep deprivation-induced delirium.


Caught, fixed, but forgot to save :oops:
Click to expand...
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

According to Fluffy's SS, the 76 is at +4.

From the Handling Low Numbers post:
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
    [*]Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.
Click to expand...
Since Fluffy isn't in the below 50 range, you should be testing every 30 min. to insure there's some surfing going on and to make sure his numbers don't surprise you. Right now, since this is very new, it's better to test more often so you can learn Fluffy's patterns.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76

No problem! I figured it was +4 :-D see you in 30 unless you have questions. Just post them...I'll be right back...I have to test and feed my kitty girl.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Lynn...sometimes we cross post so it's good to continually scroll back through your condo and make sure you got everything.

When administering insulin, you would ideally test, feed, shoot within 10 minutes. Many of us feed while we are shooting SS it gets the kitty's attention...their face is in the food while we shoot :-D you want to be sure and get the insulin in within 15 mins of shooting.

If he doesn't want to eat while you shoot, it's ok. Lantus doesn't onset for about two hours so you don't have to feed right that moment...but it is smart to have food on board at the latest by +1.
Click to expand...

Ok, got it. THis is what I've been doing as of todays doses - I had the test and feed reversed for the first couple of days, but it was all happening within 45 minutes, and most of that is his dislike of the testing and the kitty burrito procedure. It seems to be getting a bit easier though.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +6 76

Sienne and Gabby said:
Since Fluffy isn't in the below 50 range, you should be testing every 30 min. to insure there's some surfing going on and to make sure his numbers don't surprise you. Right now, since this is very new, it's better to test more often so you can learn Fluffy's patterns.
Click to expand...

THanks for this and for the link above. That page is going into my binder along with everything else. What do you all do during the day if you have to be away from home?
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76

Just a quick review: if you test during the cycle and get a number below 100 but above 50, feed about 2 tsp LC food. Retest in 30 mins and if he's still coming down, do it again. We call that lather, rinse, repeat. Once you have him stopped and flat, then the hope is he'll stay in those normal numbers (surf) for a few hours. :-D

Standing by for your +4.5 when you have it.
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Just a quick review: if you test during the cycle and get a number below 100 but above 50, feed about 2 tsp LC food. Retest in 30 mins and if he's still coming down, do it again. We call that lather, rinse, repeat. Once you have him stopped and flat, then the hope is he'll stay in those normal numbers (surf) for a few hours. :-D

Standing by for your +4.5 when you have it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is going into my binder too :smile:
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76, 4.5 90

Hi Lynn,
I just asked Marje to take a peek at a thread in health, but she'll be back soon. Is it +4.5 test time yet?

Carl
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76, 4.5 90

Very nice! Let's give him an hour and see what he does. If he's hungry you can give him LC but if he's not, don't feed.

He might be coming up from the 11% from earlier.m if he ate a good amount over time, it can hang around for about two hours...or perhaps longer...every cat is different. So let's give him an hour...is that ok? I'll still be here :-D
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76, +4.5 90, +5 119

His +5 is back up. Well, that was a roller coaster ride that I didn't expect! I'm going to leave him until +6 I think, then go to bed unless someone thinks there's good reason to keep testing him beyond that. He's pretty angry at me and the warm oatmeal sock right now - I just saw him drag it into his bed and give it a few good back leg kicks.

I've decided to stay with him tomorrow for the first 6 hours after his dose to collect some data if he'll let me and then go into work after.

I have a couple of questions:
Should I feed him the 11% higher carb food Wellness again tomorrow or go back to our usual 4-5% carb Wellness? Maybe I should freeze some and leave it out too?
Should I keep the 1U dose in the morning or give less?

Thank you all so much for walking me through this. Your advice and warm words of encouragement helped so much. You're all really amazing people!
 
Re: Fluffy PMPS 176, +3 86, +4 76, +4.5 90, +5 119

We usually say if you have two rising, non food influenced numbers, then you are good for the night...especially after nadir.

I would shoot 1u tomorrow...he hasn't earned a dose reduction yet. Reductions are earned by newly diagnosed cats by going under 50 once. If you reduce him too soon, he could fail it and have to go back up. So..patience. FD is a marathon, not a sprint :-D

I would not feed him the 11% unless he is flying down or gets below 50 and you need to get him up. I'd feed his 4%. Many members freeze food and leave out the little frozen patties they make. If hel'll eat it..great!

I think I answered all your questions except what do people do who work. It varies. The ideal solution is to be able to get a +2 before you leave. If the +2 is much higher than the PS, then he's probably headed up. If it is the same as or close to the PS, he will probably come down in a lantus curve. If it is much lower than preshot, you can expect an active cycle..maybe early...and leave out HC food.

I'll be up another 1.5 hours here, so if you need help, just post.

Thanks Lynn...hope you get some rest. You did great!
 
Thanks for the info above. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have managed this without all of you who posted in here. I hope you all have a nice, quiet night.
 
You're welcome...it's what we do....help others to payback for the help we got. :-D :-D

You'll get it...faster than you think. Have a good night, Lynn.
 
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