First time posting

[Sandy.Cuthbert]

I'm not sure where to start. Kole diagnosed November 2023. On Lantus. Started at 1 unit and currently on 3.50 units. With the current increase he is getting some better numbers. I will definitely need help going forward. Also with the procedure here as I'm not familiar. I'm going to try to upload his spreadsheet so someone can take a look.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...8KDsoAJuZJwC522WjiHFyksRXCg/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

[Gus the Furminator]

So glad to see you over here from the Facebook page. You’re exactly where you need to be. The folks here can help with dosing and daily support

You can add your spreadsheet link to your signature for easy access and it’s easier on you too.

To add your spreadsheet you need to edit your signature. Type ‘spreadsheet’ at the end of your signature and highlight it. Then you’ll hit the ‘link’ icon and paste your spreadsheet link there. You can use mine as a reference… there’s a how to on this, I just can’t find it atm

Going to tag a few folks for you
@Suzanne & Darcy @Wendy&Neko

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Sorry you didn't get a faster response. One thing that may be helpful is when you post here, then post in the group too with the link to your post here so it's easy for people in the group to find your post.

Looks like you're starting to get some slightly better numbers so you're doing what you should be doing!
I see you're feeding a little of the Dr. Elsey's kibble. Even though it's low carb, some cats react to it like it was high. I don't think it'll make a big difference, but if you could remove even the little he's getting for a couple of days, it would answer that question for us.

As long as he's eating kibble, even low carb, you have to use the Start Low, Go Slow dosing method. That means holding the dose for 7 days. If you hold it longer, that can sometimes allow glucose toxicity to start (basically, the cat's body gets used to being in those numbers even with insulin).

You do test more than enough to do Tight Regulation, but he would need to be on canned/raw food only, so not even the Dr. Elseys. TR gives you the option of increase as often as every 3 days if the dose isn't getting the results you want. It's a more aggressive protocol but also gives the best chance at remission.

Here are explanations of both of the Lantus dosing methods.

Hopefully, some of the other members and Mods will be able to help you too. I saw some tagged above but I'll add the other 2 Mods, @Marje and Gracie and @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

In the meantime, as long as he's got access to the kibble, keep increasing by .25 every 7 days until you start to get some mid to lower blues (then you might need to hold the dose a few days longer).

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Hi there! You are doing a great job with Kole. Chris did a good job of explaining things in general. I see you got a blue number last night! Hoorah! I bet you were excited. I completely understand how frustrating it is to see so little response to insulin. But just keep on increasing every 7 days as long as his nadirs are above 150. When they’re in higher numbers you don’t want to hold the dose too long and let them get too comfortable in those higher numbers because it is more difficult to break through that “glucose toxicity.” Welcome and be sure to post here with any questions.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Oh, can you add to your signature what kind of meter you are using? It is on your spreadsheet, but it’s helpful to have it on the signature as well. Any other health conditions to add? Medications? Any history of DKA?

 

[Sandy.Cuthbert]

Sorry you didn't get a faster response. One thing that may be helpful is when you post here, then post in the group too with the link to your post here so it's easy for people in the group to find your post.

Looks like you're starting to get some slightly better numbers so you're doing what you should be doing!
I see you're feeding a little of the Dr. Elsey's kibble. Even though it's low carb, some cats react to it like it was high. I don't think it'll make a big difference, but if you could remove even the little he's getting for a couple of days, it would answer that question for us.

As long as he's eating kibble, even low carb, you have to use the Start Low, Go Slow dosing method. That means holding the dose for 7 days. If you hold it longer, that can sometimes allow glucose toxicity to start (basically, the cat's body gets used to being in those numbers even with insulin).

You do test more than enough to do Tight Regulation, but he would need to be on canned/raw food only, so not even the Dr. Elseys. TR gives you the option of increase as often as every 3 days if the dose isn't getting the results you want. It's a more aggressive protocol but also gives the best chance at remission.

Here are explanations of both of the Lantus dosing methods.

Hopefully, some of the other members and Mods will be able to help you too. I saw some tagged above but I'll add the other 2 Mods, @Marje and Gracie and @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

In the meantime, as long as he's got access to the kibble, keep increasing by .25 every 7 days until you start to get some mid to lower blues (then you might need to hold the dose a few days longer).

I appreciate your information! I can't really stop the kibble as I have 6 others and Dr elseys was the best I could do atm. The last few tests I've had have been relatively high today. I'm hoping my spouse didn't give a fs. Kole attacks me when I give his injection but I usually feel if it's wet but I felt nothing this. Could it be a bounce or possibly glucose toxicity? Thanks for your help and support.

 

[Sandy.Cuthbert]

Hi there! You are doing a great job with Kole. Chris did a good job of explaining things in general. I see you got a blue number last night! Hoorah! I bet you were excited. I completely understand how frustrating it is to see so little response to insulin. But just keep on increasing every 7 days as long as his nadirs are above 150. When they’re in higher numbers you don’t want to hold the dose too long and let them get too comfortable in those higher numbers because it is more difficult to break through that “glucose toxicity.” Welcome and be sure to post here with any questions.

Hi! Thank you! Yes I was very happy to finally see a blue but unfortunately today I have had some higher #'s. I'm hoping it was just a fur shot or a bounce and that it will come back down. I'll add my meter in a little bit. Again thank you.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Could it be a bounce or possibly glucose toxicity?

My bet is a bounce. His body has had a long time to get used to being in those higher numbers so even though 182 (10.1) isn't "low", it feels low to his body so the liver releases those darned stored sugars and hormones and they "bounce high". It can take up to 6 cycles for a bounce to clear so don't increase the dose based on bounce highs. As those hormones leave, the numbers should start to come down, but if not and it's been the same dose for 7 days, then it's time to increase again by .25.

We have lots of members with multiple cats. A lot of them just convert everybody to low carb canned. Not only does it mean you don't have to worry about what your diabetic is eating, you also greatly lessen the chances of having a 2nd diabetic (and all kibble, even low carb, is dehydrating and hard on the kidneys.) Kidney disease is one of the top causes of death in cats so the more moisture you can keep flowing through them, the healthier they'll be. Some great information on this website, written by a vet with a special interest in feline nutrition. www.catinfo.org It's well worth the time to read. Even something cheap like Special Kitty pates that come in 12-13oz cans for about $1 are better than the most expensive kibble.

If nothing else, is there someplace you can put it so your sugarcat can't get to it?

Just an FYI. Most of us are in the US here so it's best to convert your numbers to ours when posting...just multiple by 18 to get US numbers)

 

[Sandy.Cuthbert]

Sorry you didn't get a faster response. One thing that may be helpful is when you post here, then post in the group too with the link to your post here so it's easy for people in the group to find your post.

Looks like you're starting to get some slightly better numbers so you're doing what you should be doing!
I see you're feeding a little of the Dr. Elsey's kibble. Even though it's low carb, some cats react to it like it was high. I don't think it'll make a big difference, but if you could remove even the little he's getting for a couple of days, it would answer that question for us.

As long as he's eating kibble, even low carb, you have to use the Start Low, Go Slow dosing method. That means holding the dose for 7 days. If you hold it longer, that can sometimes allow glucose toxicity to start (basically, the cat's body gets used to being in those numbers even with insulin).

You do test more than enough to do Tight Regulation, but he would need to be on canned/raw food only, so not even the Dr. Elseys. TR gives you the option of increase as often as every 3 days if the dose isn't getting the results you want. It's a more aggressive protocol but also gives the best chance at remission.

Here are explanations of both of the Lantus dosing methods.

Hopefully, some of the other members and Mods will be able to help you too. I saw some tagged above but I'll add the other 2 Mods, @Marje and Gracie and @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

In the meantime, as long as he's got access to the kibble, keep increasing by .25 every 7 days until you start to get some mid to lower blues (then you might need to hold the dose a few days longer).

My bet is a bounce. His body has had a long time to get used to being in those higher numbers so even though 182 (10.1) isn't "low", it feels low to his body so the liver releases those darned stored sugars and hormones and they "bounce high". It can take up to 6 cycles for a bounce to clear so don't increase the dose based on bounce highs. As those hormones leave, the numbers should start to come down, but if not and it's been the same dose for 7 days, then it's time to increase again by .25.

We have lots of members with multiple cats. A lot of them just convert everybody to low carb canned. Not only does it mean you don't have to worry about what your diabetic is eating, you also greatly lessen the chances of having a 2nd diabetic (and all kibble, even low carb, is dehydrating and hard on the kidneys.) Kidney disease is one of the top causes of death in cats so the more moisture you can keep flowing through them, the healthier they'll be. Some great information on this website, written by a vet with a special interest in feline nutrition. www.catinfo.org It's well worth the time to read. Even something cheap like Special Kitty pates that come in 12-13oz cans for about $1 are better than the most expensive kibble.

If nothing else, is there someplace you can put it so your sugarcat can't get to it?

Just an FYI. Most of us are in the US here so it's best to convert your numbers to ours when posting...just multiple by 18 to get US numbers)

Thank you for this information! I'm assuming it was a bounce because as of last night his #'s have been coming back down. I'll try looking into the special kitty pate but I do have a couple that won't eat pate and if they do it's only very little unfortunately. Since changing their original kibble from Purina one advantage to Dr Elseys I noticed they aren't eating near as much kibble but the ones that prefer kibble are still eating it like usual. Lots more to try! Praying we get there.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Since changing their original kibble from Purina one advantage to Dr Elseys I noticed they aren't eating near as much kibble but the ones that prefer kibble are still eating it like usual.

The Dr. Elsey's is much more nutrient-dense, so they don't need to eat as much because there's not a bunch of garbage their bodies can't use like in the Purina.

Something else to try. Put the "kibble cats" on timed meals. Please don't leave it out all the time. (if you have several, this may require a bowl for each cat). Next to the bowl of kibble, put 1 teaspoon of wet on a plate. If they don't touch it, that's OK, just keep doing it (this is where "cheap" canned can be a true blessing). At some point (may be days, weeks or months), most cats curiosity will get the better of them and they'll wonder about that pile you keep putting down and maybe even take a bite. Some cats may accept it quickly, others may try your patience. Remember, you are the human. You provide the food.

You can feed them every 4-6 hours, but getting them on scheduled meals will only help with transitioning.

Texture is also often a very important part of acceptance when it comes to food. Maybe try a little "meat only" baby food. The point is to get them used to eating something that has a different mouth feel. Most kibble isn't even chewed. It's swallowed whole or maybe "split" into a smaller piece and then swallowed whole so learning to eat something totally different can take some time and practice.