First shot Thursday afternoon

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underdawg

underdawg

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I am totally new to this but have been reading since Tuesday night. One of my male cats, Bo, was newly diagnosed with diabetes and had his first shot around 4 Thursday afternoon at the vet. His next shot was at 6 in the morning and then at 7:30 that night. His shot this morning was at 7:30. I have read that you are supposed to stick to the schedule when giving shots. I need to schedule the shots at 6 in the morning and 6 in the afternoon. I have four cats from the same litter who were wild when I got them so this poses many problems. Thankfully the one with diabetes is the easiest to work with and so far has been a very good patient. I will not have problems in the mornings because they are all ready for a couple of treats before breakfast in the morning. But the evening shot will be difficult to maintain a schedule. The two boys that I have stay upstairs until they get ready to come down for supper - (That is the reason for the late shot on Friday afternoon. I called but they did not come down at 6:00) They do not come when called == just when they are ready. I was reading on a website that you should not vary more than 30 minutes from the scheduled time and then to adjust subsequent shots based on that time. Is that true? If so, what do I do when the boys do not come down at the scheduled time? How critical is the 12 hours between shots? This is the weekend and I can't call the vet. I work part time and will need to leave in time to get to work on those days. Thanks for your help.
 
Well, if they won't come when you open the can or shake a bag of treats, I suggest feeding Bo the diabetic on time and let the others fall into a new routine.

What type of insulin is Bo on?

12/12 usually works best but it can vary somewhat with the type of insulin and how long it lasts in his system.

If it is just feeding Bo that is the problem, either feed him upstairs or train him to come downstairs.

If you can find a treat they really like it shouldn't take more than a couple of times to get them to come when they hear the container or the bag open.

Best,
Pam & Layla
 
What insulin are you useing?

I know personaly My shots can very an hour or so off. Just due to cat wrangleing when he crawls under the bed. Of course it is better to stick to a set time. Try giveing one treat with the morning shot like you have been but also giving him one with the evening shot, call it an appetizer, if he allways shows for his morning treats/shot.
 
Thanks for responding. Bo is on Lantus. 3 units twice a day. He has been very cooperative with his shots as we "learn" while doing them. He has been put on Hill's m/d while everyone else eats c/d. Thus another problem. I guess I have special needs kitties since they were wild.

Since the diagnosis, I have not let them graze. That is what they were used to doing for almost 8 years now. That contributed to the weight problem which probably is the reason we are here now with Bo. So the new routine of putting down food for a while and then taking it back up probably has not set in yet. My girls are more cooperative with eating in the afternoon than the boys. The boys have always been afternoon nappers and don't like to be disturbed. They usually stay under the bed upstairs.

The other male, Andy, has had his own medical issues. He has always been the scarest of the bunch and does not let me touch him much at all so if I were to try to get Bo from under the bed, Andy will get severely stressed out and probably need medical attention for his problem. Stress led Andy to have urinary tract problems and a specialist did the PU surgery in Feb 2009. While at one of the vets or emergency vets, he got MRSA is his bladder. I almost lost him during his recovery because the drug to treat that was so strong and caused him to quit eating and grooming. He lost 1/3 of his weight in about 30 days. I was about to put him to sleep on a Saturday but decided to wait until Monday so that he could have some peace without me forcing a pill down him. By that Sunday night, he started eating again and I decided to give him a few more days of peace. I was waiting on a sign that he was getting worse so I could take him to the vet to be put to sleep but then I noticed he was getting better. That was over a year ago now. He still has to get some antibiotics for an infection since they are chronic but they started to be farther between - almost 3 months this last time. So I am always concerned about trying not to stress Andy out so he won't get sick. When Andy had to be put on c/d, I put them all on c/d in case they had it in their genes. I had a Himalayan who had urinary problems and had to be on c/d so I was a little paranoid. She lived to be over 19 years old.

Andy is also very dependent on Bo. He is always with Bo and has to come down to eat next to him. So Bo is on m/d which Andy cannot eat and Andy is on c/d which Bo can't eat. So I have to watch them while they eat. The girls will eat out both types. So many issues to work through! I just need to work out routines to deal with both these issues and that is why I joined this group. I have never done this before but the posts that I have read seemed to be really good advice.

So any help is greatly appreciated. I just don't know if I am supposed to alter the dose if I need to move the time of the shot more than 30 minutes or what. I am just learning all this and it is overwhelming! I know you understand. Thanks again.
 
That is good to know that you can be an hour off. I think that will help. Since the shot was at 7:30 this morning, I put the food down a little before 7:00. No one has showed up yet.

I like schedules and routines for myself but I never really had one for them until Andy got sick and he had to be in a room by himself while he recovered. I know that it will take them a while to get used to one since they never had them before.

I read that I will need to have high protein/low or no carb treats. Any suggestions? If I can find a new one, that may do the trick with Bo since he has almost never met a treat that he didn't like. There was one though so I assumed that it must have tasted horrible. If I can get Bo to come down, then Andy will follow so that everyone can eat during the meal time. But to get Bo to get up from his nap, I will need a fantastic tasting treat. Thanks
 
I use dehydrated chicken as a treat ,alot of pet stores sell it now. It's a bit more expensive compared to the cheep dollar treats but it's pretty darn healty for a treat. In order for them to take to em the first time I mixed the chicken bits with a small amount of the old fashoned high carb greasy treats my boys love, it got the smell on them and they gobbled them right up. Now they don't even bother to try to get the old kind of treats. I keep a few in my jar though so that when I shake the contaner they can hear them clink aorund announceing treat time.

I can't recomend what to do about feeding. I am not familiar with the percription diets. Never used em as most of them are expensive junk my cats will not go near. But they will settle into a rutine soon enough It was hard the first few days when we went from grazers to set meal times. I hope someone will come along with some advice for that.

I was wondering if you home BG test? The reason I feel confident in not allways giving insulin at the exact same time everyday is I can see where my kittys BG is anytime I need to, letting me know if it is safe to shoot him or not. Judgeing by how you say kitty is still a bit on the wild side leads me to think you have not gotten to home testing yet.
 
No BG monitoring yet since we just started this. Still learning how to give the shots. My stomach has been in knots all week over this. We have never done anything like that before. We know very little - only what I have read this week and what the vet said and gave us. I do want to start that BG monitoring soon. I was looking at some monitors yesterday. I got on the internet today to see if there was one that did not require blood. Looks like there have been a few tries at that but nothing on the market that I know of. I hate to keep sticking him but we are going to do what we need to do to make him better.

Thanks for the treat tip. I will look for those at the pet store.
 
I ordered Halo Liv a Little Chicken treats for Calliope which are freeze dried. She wouldn't eat the ones I found at the pet store, but she went crazy over those. I just buy them from the cheapest site I can find.

Is 3 units of lantus your starting dose? I ask because that's an awfully big dose to start with. Usually, kitties are started on no more than 1 unit. You can then go up in small increments, as necessary. Keep an eye on your kitty's behavior on that dose. I would suggest, if you haven't already, going to "insulin support groups" and clicking on the lantus forum to read the stickies there. On that dose, I suggest you start hometesting as soon as possible to make sure your kitty is safe. If you are shooting 3 units and the glucose is lower than it has been since diagnosis at shot time, you will have no way of knowing that. Lantus takes time to "settle" in the kitty. When it does, you may find that Bo doesn't need as much as you thought. We usually start low and go slow.

12/12 is a recommended schedule. Whether you can shoot earlier than 12 hours really depends on the data you've collected from hometesting and that pre-shot number you would get if you were hometesting.

Calliope is a good example. My vet wanted me to start at 4 units because Calliope was at 500 at the vet. Calliope hated the vet's office and we now know that her high number was partly due to vet stress, in all likelihood. It was suggested here that I start at 1 unit, which I did, contrary to my vet's advice, but she accepted my decision. Turns out that once I changed the food and started shooting, it was a good thing I didn't start higher. I was testing the urine the first days while I tried to hometest Calliope. She was not cooperative. Even those tests indicated she wasn't as high at home as she was at the vet's office. The first hometest I got was a 40. Needless to say, I got those hometests done after that. I also dropped the dose and in less than 3 weeks Calliope was off the insulin altogether. I wouldn't have known she was going low if I hadn't hometested. So, it's good to start that as soon as you can, especially on the dose you're on. Bo may well need 3 units, but it's still a big dose for a starting dose and there's no way to be sure without daily testing either of the blood or the urine and the urine tests don't give you the results in real time since the urine is hours old by the time it's expelled.

Do read the lantus stickies. You will find them helpful and in one of the stickies there are links to what you should have on hand in case Bo were to exhibit signs indicating the blood sugar was low. The signs are explained and the tools you need to have on hand are listed. Being prepared is key.

Welcome to the forum. I know you will get some very good suggestions here.
 
We have an appointment Tuesday for our first check and then we will go in another day this week for his first curve. I bought some of the ketostix to test urine. I wish I had had one about 4 this morning when I heard Bo in the litter box. I also bought a monitor today - One Touch Ultra 2 - but I think I am going back to get a AccuCheck Aviva since it requires a smaller sample. So hopefully I can learn this quickly and start testing. Yes, 3 was the starting dose. I thought the 3 units was a little large but I assumed it was because of Bo's size. His BG was over 500 Monday when we went to the vet. What i have read since then said that usually 1-2 was the starting dose. Another said .5 -1 so all this is very confusing. Thanks for the tip on the stickies. I will begin reading those. I have the Karo on hand and ready. It is in the front of the pantry so it is available.

Bo is tuxedo cat and is a very large cat - not just overweight, but big - He is two feet long from his head to the base of his tail and also two feet tall from his head to the floor. His tail would make him about a foot longer. He just kept growing! He got so much bigger than the rest of the litter but they are all larger than other cats I have had. He weighed 27.3 pounds at last year's vet visit. When I took him to the doctor Monday, he had lost 7 pounds. I knew he had been drinking a lot lately but he has always loved water and it has been really hot here but I had NO idea he had lost that much weight. I really felt horrible that I did not notice. Since Andy has had his urinary problems, I watch Andy like a hawk so I guess I just missed some of the signs from Bo. Andy is now having small pee pees probably due to the stress of me having to get Bo in the carrier to go to the vet.

If his numbers are low, do I reduce the dose or skip the dose altogether?

Where do you gt the Halo Liv a Little Chicken treats? I checked some drug stores and a couple of grocery stores today for treats while I was buying some supplies and the monitor but did not see anything but the usual stuff. I will go to the pet store tomorrow to see what they have.

Thanks! All these responses have been so helpful!
 
Pet stores have the freeze dried treats, but for some reason, Calliope wouldn't touch those. That's when I ordered the liv a little treats. I don't know what the difference is in those and the ones I found in the pet stores, but she took them right away. I order them from the site below because it's always the cheapest when it's time for me to order.

http://wholesalesupplementstore.com/liv ... reats.html

Just google them when you want to order, if you can't find them, locally, and look for the cheapest, but I've never found any cheaper than these.

Wow! BIG KITTY. It's hard to tell whether the dose is too high without testing. Once you start testing, you can do your curves at home. There is no need to go to the vet for that. Does Bo like going to the vet? I ask this because many kitties don't. Calliope hated it and her blood sugar went up every time she went, even when she was off the insulin. At home, even with the struggles we went through to test, her blood sugar was lower than at the vet's office. I would take it before we went to the vet and then compare it with the vet's number. Much, much different in just 20 minutes. Always higher at the vet. Then, I would check it when we'd been home a bit and it would have dropped right back to normal. That's another reason to check at home and to do your own curves.


At the bottom of the page of the link below, you will see the info on hypos.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139



Please read them and get the tools suggested and keep them on hand. Note that karo syrup works for the short term, but the effects wear off quickly, so you should really have some medium and higher carb wet foods that Bo would eat like food with gravies, for example. Dry food brings it up, but not very quickly and stays in the system, longer. This is all very important information to know IF you are ever faced with the hypo situation.

There is no reason to wait to start testing. You asked about whether to shoot or skip if Bo is low. The way to find out is to hometest and collect data. The lantus stickies give recommendations for new folks starting out on when to shoot before you have enough data to make the decisions.

Calliope was 500 at the vet's office, too. That's why the vet wanted to start high. She's wasn't nearly as big as Bo, though. I can't comment on the weight issue. It may well be that such a large cat must start with a higher dose, but I still suggest that hometesting be started immediately. Until I could test, I was up all night and day watching for symptoms of a hypo because I had no way of knowing what the insulin was doing and how it was affecting her.

I used the Aviva and it worked fine for me, but many folks have used the one you have and been fine with that one. I always rubbed a little vaseline on Calliope's ear before I tested, so the blood would bead up. Made it easier to get it.

Ask questions if you have any problems hometesting. We have many tricks we've all used. It will all become second nature to you as you go along, so don't be afraid of it. It will give you so much peace of mind.
 
Thanks for all the links!

He is a big one and is so sweet and laidback. It is like you have known him all your life! He is just so lovable. But since he was wild when he was young, he still has his moments of not wanting to be bothered. Georgie (his sister) is similar to Bo in a lot of ways but is more likely to be hanging around. But Andy and Scout (other sister) do not like to be handled - Andy is especially difficult since he is always so stressed and on edge. So I hope no one else has a problem like this.

Wow! I had the list of the Hypo symptoms and knew about the Karo but didn't even think of some high carb food. I have several cans of regular cat food left from when I was trying to get Andy to take pills so I will see if any are on the food chart. Thanks!

I got the AccuCheck Aviva and learned how to do it on my husband and myself this afternoon. Then I wanted to practice on one of the cats before trying with Bo. It was a good thing to do since I had bought the smallest size lancets and had the thing set on the lowest number. I got no blood from either of us on the low setting. One of Bo's sisters, Georgie, let me practice on her. She probably had 5 holes in her ears before I was able to get any blood. Her BG was 67 at 5:38pm. She last ate around 9:00 this morning. I hope this is a normal number. If not, please let me know! When Bo comes down, we will get his BG tested too.

I would like to do the curve here instead of the vet but I will need to have him in a room where there is not a bed. I can't crawl under the one upstairs - not high enough. I can get under the ones downstairs but if I get under the bed, they come out and then when I come out, they go back under. Been there, done that! Any time a door is closed, everyone is stressed! They think someone is going to the vet. Andy knows that the probably is high that he is the one so he is especially nervous which then sends him into his urinary problems again. I think I will talk to the vet about doing the curve here. Even with Bo at the vet, everyone here will already be stressed because they will see or hear me try to get him loaded in a carrier. So either way, stress will be all over. But it would probably be a little better for Bo to do it here.

I need to find a chart on the numbers to look for when i do the BG tests. I will try the stickies. I am listening out for the boys to come down now. I wonder if they will. When I checked on Bo before I went back to get the Aviva, he got under the bed. He let me touch him but he looked at me funny like I was going to try to pull him out. I do not know how this is going to be with me trying to get to my parttime job on some days. I have all next week off and I am glad so I can be here to check on Bo. I am really scared about the days when no one will be here to check on him.
 
Good for you with the meter you wanted and practicing! THAT'S PROGRESS!

Georgia's number is just purrfect.

In some cats, it takes time for the ears to "learn" to bleed. I didn't have that problem. My problem was a very uncooperative cat and a very nervous mama! Cat's can sense our nervousness. I had to get over my own fears and when I got the job done, I realized I was fearful for nothing. All that wasted stress!

Find a place that Bo likes and maybe try testing there. Be as consistent as possible on where you test. Give Bo lots of loving before and after. Low carb treats before and/or after have helped a lot of folks. If Bo likes his ears rubbed, that's a good thing to do before testing. It warms them up when you massage them. There are many, many "tricks of the trade" out there, so post any problems in a new thread asking for hometesting help and people will come right along to assist.

Keep a record or all of your hometesting results. Here's a link on instructions for starting a spreadsheet you can attach to your signature. I bet your vet will be impressed once you start this and bring it to him for checkups!

Bo sounds like a wonderful kitty!
 
Re beds:

If you have enough stuff (Lord knows, I do), shove things under the bed around the perimeter, like
pillows, folded blankets, sleeping bags, etc.

To keep kitty from going under the bed.

I at one time had a collection of just the right size cardboard boxes for this purpose.
 
That is good to know about Georgie! She is a little chunky herself but weighs only around 13-14 so I thought she would be the next one to worry about. She is not as long as Bo though. Everyone needs to lose weight so this is a good wakeup call for all of them and us. She does get pelnty of exercise though - never met a game she didn't like.

I just saw the spreadsheet! Wow! That will take some studying. But I will get to it!

Thanks for all your help!
 
Karen and Smokey,

That was funny when I read that about putting stuff under the bed. I do need to get some boxes that are the right size. You would not believe what I had stuffed under my bed when Andy had to take his pills. I had large pillows, small pillows. blankets, books, etc. I put all of it under the bed but left about 2 feet around the perimeter so he would go under the bed but could not go all the way under. Then when I needed to give him a pill, I could reach under and he could not run off. That worked for a few days until Georgie and Bo decided I had built some kind of fort for them. They would bust in and go to the middle of the bed but be behind all the pillows! That was so frustrating then but so funny now thinking back. But you are right, I need some boxes that fit so they can't bust through. Maybe I can do that in the next couple of days and get ready for the curve day. Thanks!
 
I had a problem with Calliope going under a couch and I was in a leg cast and on crutches when she was diagnosed. What a mess. I laugh about it now, because I know I looked funny sticking my crutch under the bed trying force her to come out. She was annoyed as the dickens and so was I!

Once you get the spreadsheet set up, it will be easy to keep up with. If you go over to the lantus forum, you can read some of the posts, there, and click on other folks' spreadsheets in their signatures to see how helpful they are.
 
Last night I tried to get Bo's BG reading. Poor thing! I tried so many times with no luck. He must have had 8-10 holes with no blood coming out. I just quit. He was getting so restless while we were trying that. Then when we went ahead with the shot, he was really becoming irritated with us. No bites or scratches though. I don't think he is capable of that. So any tips on getting the sample will be great! I used a lancet device that came with the AccuCheck Aviva and also one that I bought earlier called the One Touch Delica.

This morning, I got the BG sample the first time! It was 375. He had his shot last night about 7:50. I got his BG test done about 5:45 this morning and gave his shot immediately after. PLEASE tell me that is okay since his BG was 375. If I had not gotten a BG reading, I was going to wait to give the shot until about 7:15. But since it was 375, we went ahead with the shot. I don't know if I will ever know the right thing to do so any assistance will be fantastic! When I go back to work, he will have to have his shot around 6 in the morning if he is to have one that day. HOW do people do this if they have jobs?
 
Hi everybody,

I cannot figure out how to post a new message - and I am a tech guy! Can anyone give me the name of a vet in Toronto, Canada, who is familiar and comfortable with the PZI tight regulation protocol?

Many thanks.
 
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