First Post - newly diagnosed and a furshot!

[soapachu]

Hi all - Wicket (7 y/o male domestic long hair, tabby and white) was diagnosed just over a week ago, having been through a ketoacidotic crisis and spent 5 days getting all his salts/electrolytes/ketone issues dealt with. We're on 3 units of caninsulin 2x daily, and eating Hill's m/d dry food. Will start testing as soon as the glucometer arrives (tomorrow, hopefully) so I'll have a much better idea of what's going on then and we can aim for regulation.

However, this morning I managed to give him a furshot, which I'm a bit worried about. Spoke to the vet who said it was fine to hang on until this evenings feed/injection - will he be OK? I've been so worried about the whole diabetes thing, and don't want to push him back into ketoacidosis. When I realised he hadn't had his whole dose of insulin, I reduced his food intake, so he hasn't eaten much. Is there anything else I should be doing?

Thanks in advance!

Lyssa & Wicket
London, UK

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

Hello and Welcome!
You are about to be on the fast track.

I was looking up what your cat has been thru and must ask.
Did your vet say to reduce his food? Because as I'm reading this link http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ketoacidosis
I found these words down in the part of when to see a vet.....
Trace urinary ketones may or may not be an emergency, depending on the case. If a vet is unavailable, look for some of the other signs or triggers, and try to remedy any you can. Give extra water and food, by syringe if necessary


So with that pointed out....
I think you need to change the diet right away to canned.
We all think Hill's is horrible for cats. Unfortunately vets are behind and don't know better..... YET. We are trying to teach them.... It's too too high in carbs.
Please read this about cat diet.
http://www.catinfo.org/

Here is a list of canned food . Find the one's with the lowest carbs. Most of us don't use anything over 10% carb.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/nonusfd.html
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html
If you look at the hill's canned..... even it is well over 10 % carbs.
I don't know if you have fancy feast in UK but if you do, the classics are low in carbs.
I can get you that chart too so you have numbers.

Dry food to cats is he same as you sitting around eating potato chips all day.

Don't worry about the furr shot?
If your dose is 3 units ( which is high to start with) especially without your glucose monitor yet,
I would say if you even got half the dose in.... Wicket is probably better off.
The rule of thumb here... Go low and slow.

While you are waiting for you monitor and your next shot.... Read the http://catinfo.org/ and start learning. Dr Pierson explains everything very well.
And here is a great link for learning about ear sticking and glucose monitoring
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm

There will many others chiming in .
I wish you and Wicket well.






https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xVmc#gid=0

 

[hmjohnston]

Everyone does fur shots, it is a fact of shooting into a furry creature where you can't really see the skin :lol: .

But actually you should give him his food. DKA comes because of 3 main things- not eating enough, not enough insulin, and a present illness or infection. So, feed him if he will eat. Other stuff is involved but these are the main ones.

Great that you are starting to home test when you get the meter- it is a big step in the right direction. Did you order it online or from the vet? I don't know what meters are available in the UK but we just had a few new members there.

I'd suggest a switch of insulin though- caninsulin is NOT the right insulin for at CAT as it is made for DOGS. Good cat insulins are Levemir, Lantus, and ProZinc (the L's have a better OTJ history, too). Switch when you can- they cost more up front but either L's come in little pens that can last a LONG time.

The next step AFTER TESTING is to change the food. Dry is BAD- too many carbs. We have two lists we give out alot:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)

You want to look for canned food that is low carb. The two lists above are ones that we use- look for the %kcal/carbs- under 10 (5 is better) in both lists. Feed the best you can afford. Most do Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9-lives. This will also help with the UTI- dry food is, well, dry. Canned food has more moisture and when you add water to it the water content is increased- all the better to pee a lot. You do NOT need vet prescription food- it is overpriced, high carbs, and contains high quantities of liver- which most cats won't eat day in and day out. If you bought some just take it back and say your kitty stopped eating it. They should refund even if it is opened. You also should consider feeding several small meals throughout the day. Not only is a diabetic cat losing weight- the reason is because they are literally starving, unable to get the nutrients out of the food they are eating. Give more food in small meals and your cat will slow down once they start getting the nutrients out.

Also, with Wickets DKA history, you need to pick up some ketosticks from your pharmacy- right with the diabetic supplies are. $7/100- the best insurance against ketones you can get for such a small price.

Good luck with the switch, hopefully Wicket will get to regulation and change to diet soon.

Heather

 

[soapachu]

Hello and Welcome!
You are about to be on the fast track.

I was looking up what your cat has been thru and must ask.
Did your vet say to reduce his food? Because as I'm reading this link http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ketoacidosis
I found these words down in the part of when to see a vet.....
Trace urinary ketones may or may not be an emergency, depending on the case. If a vet is unavailable, look for some of the other signs or triggers, and try to remedy any you can. Give extra water and food, by syringe if necessary

No, the vet didn't say to, but he ate about 2/3 of his normal meal but without the right insulin dose this would mean a big jump in blood glucose, right?

So with that pointed out....
I think you need to change the diet right away to canned.

Not happening, unfortunately. He's never, ever taken to wet food (even pre-diabetes) and never wanted anything to do with tuna or chicken, raw or cooked. He will only eat dry, unfortunately.
Thanks for the recommendations; I will try to find one he'll eat, but I don't hold out much hope.

I wish you and Wicket well.

Thanks!

 

[soapachu]

Everyone does fur shots, it is a fact of shooting into a furry creature where you can't really see the skin :lol: .

But actually you should give him his food. DKA comes because of 3 main things- not eating enough, not enough insulin, and a present illness or infection. So, feed him if he will eat. Other stuff is involved but these are the main ones.

Noted, thanks.

Great that you are starting to home test when you get the meter- it is a big step in the right direction. Did you order it online or from the vet? I don't know what meters are available in the UK but we just had a few new members there.

Ordered online on recommendation from vet; cheaper online

I'd suggest a switch of insulin though- caninsulin is NOT the right insulin for at CAT as it is made for DOGS. Good cat insulins are Levemir, Lantus, and ProZinc (the L's have a better OTJ history, too). Switch when you can- they cost more up front but either L's come in little pens that can last a LONG time.

We will be switching once we're working towards regulation - there are certain rules in the UK which mean newly diagnosed cats have to be started on caninsulin because some of the better ones (Levemir included) aren't yet approved for use in the UK, even though approved elsewhere in Europe and the US.

The next step AFTER TESTING is to change the food. Dry is BAD- too many carbs. We have two lists we give out alot:

He won't touch wet food; he's a pain like that. I can keep on trying, but he's never, ever gone for anything other than dry biscuits.

Also, with Wickets DKA history, you need to pick up some ketosticks from your pharmacy- right with the diabetic supplies are. $7/100- the best insurance against ketones you can get for such a small price.

He's an outdoor cat who won't use a litter tray; I'm all open to suggestions as to how I can reliably get samples from him - we have another cat too, so having a litter box is problematic anyway...

Thanks for all suggestions and help!

Lyssa & Wicket

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

We feel your pain. Lots of cats have trouble switching over to wet, but most eventually do! On this page, down a ways, is a great section on Tempting Your Cat to Eat. You might try some of those ideas.
http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm

This vet also has some great ideas about transistioning from dry to wet: www.catinfo.org

It is worth working at, as it can make a huge difference in the glucose levels (100 points overnight in our Oliver) BUT as others have said, not until you are testing.

We have had European members who were able to regulate and go off insulin with Canninsulin, but it is difficult and just won't work for every cat. While you are in this required period with it, the testing will help you alot. You'll be able to see how low she goes with it and how long into the cycle that is. Then you may be able to manipulate the food to help with those numbers. If she is a cat who doesn't do well with it, your data will be a good way to convince your vet.

Keep asking questions and reading. We'll be your new support group in this sugar dance!

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

I noticed that the hobo's list link you were given didn't work.
hopefully this one will.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0


Outdoor cats tend to hunt.
Have you tried raw?
We have a new cat food here called Nature's Variety and specialty pet stores have it. I'm sure there is something simliar there.
The website I gave you for Dr. Pierson - the cat info one. She tells how to make your own cat food.
If he would eat that, that would be even better than canned. No carbs at all :thumbup
She also tells how she transitioned her dry food cat junkie. she had one that didn't want to switch.

there are things you can sprinkle on any of the food.
I hate to say it but maybe if you crushed some of his dry and put it on top of the canned and gradually changed the ratio.

I'd say you need to start experimenting.
There have been many who think they can't persuade their cat to give up the dry but with persistence .... They do succeed.
We here believe you can do it too. :RAHCAT

You said you had another cat.... I thought.
You'll want to change that one's food as well.

It feels like a big hit financially but it really isn't considering how much dry food costs us all in vet bills and illness and worry.
Most of us wouldn't be here dealing with diabetes.....
If we had only know how very very bad the dry food is....

 

[soapachu]

We feel your pain. Lots of cats have trouble switching over to wet, but most eventually do! On this page, down a ways, is a great section on Tempting Your Cat to Eat. You might try some of those ideas.
http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm

This vet also has some great ideas about transistioning from dry to wet: www.catinfo.org

It is worth working at, as it can make a huge difference in the glucose levels (100 points overnight in our Oliver) BUT as others have said, not until you are testing.

Thanks for this; looks like we'll have to convince him that wet food is the way to go! I'll be much happier once we're testing and I know what's going on day-to-day.

Lyssa & Wicket