Figuring out food calorie counts

[Randy Arsenault]

Hi All, appologies if this is on the forum somewhere already. I tried to search, but I did not come up with anything. To start I will give you a little background, as I am new here and just learning about Feline Diabetes.

I have an "elderly" female cat named Pinky who is approx 15 years old (We rescued her a few years ago, so do not know her exact age). We took her to the vet a couple of weeks ago when she went from being normal to not being able to walk properly in a 48 hour period. The Vet found she had an ear infection, and gave us some anti-biotics for her. Thru the couple of weeks we were giving her the anti-biotics, we were seeing improvements but when they were gone she was still not back to normal. Since I knew nothing about diabetes, I had no idea that the signs were there and I was just missing them. The vet did a blood test to see why she was not back to her "normal" self yet, and called us a few days later telling us that she had a 25.9 mmol/L (translates to approx 466.2 mg/dl which is what I see most of you use).

Once diagnosed, we transitioned her away from her dry food (Which I found out thru reading here is basically garbage in a bag for a diabetic cat, so thank you lol) before we decided to begin an insulin routine as I heard that the numbers can change dramatically diet change. Worth noting: They do appear to have changed drastically. I have only gotten 1 successful test at home which was yesterday, but she was down to 17.3 mmol/L or 311.4 mg/dl. Not low enough, so I have made an appt to see about an insulin routine.

What I am trying to figure out at this point, is just how much I should be feeding her. She is about 9 lbs, and slightly under weight. I have read that I should be feeding her approx 24 cal per point, so 216 at current weight, 240 at her "healthy" weight.

Issue: The back of the package (Whiskas perfect portions - 37.5g per portion) reads 32cal for the cuts in gravy (Which she loves, I know it isnt exactly the ideal thing to feed her lol) and 45cal for the Pate which is healthier for her. So I give her 1 of each, 3 times a day as she was used to just having food whenever she wants so I figured would be less of a drastic change then cutting straight to 2 meals a day. When I run these same ones thru this calculator: (http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html) which I use to ensure the DM Carbs are low enough to feel comfortable feeding it to her, it shows a much different story in the "Cal per 100g" field. It shows the Cuts and Pate to be 20cal and 30cal respectively. Which means I might only be feeding her 150 cal a day, which is much less then I was targetting.

Long story to get to this question, I know and I appologize lol How do you guys calc what the actual calories are in the food? Do you use the numbers on the back of the food? Or should I trust the calculator? Or should I be doing something completly different? I just want to make sure I am not starving this poor cat, but do not want to overfeed her either just because she thinks she is hungry lol

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

if the vet is telling you to feel only twice a day, this is "old school" advice, and not in tune with more recent research; we find that cats do better with more frequent small meals -- which you and Pinky will probably prefer

I've never used a calculator on the food calories -- I assume the manufacturer is telling the truth about the calories in the can

the percentage of carbohydrates, though, is easier because I look up the variety on Dr Pierson's chart -- https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

which is about as accurate as anything else you might find -- she did an amazing amount of research to come up with this

so glad you are testing her, it makes all the difference in the world

 

[Randy Arsenault]

Thansk for the reply CandyH. I also looked at that spreadsheet when I first started doing my research, but found that very few are available where I live (Not sure if those are US brands? as I live in Canada) and the ones that are available are very hard to find or very very very expensive. Thats why I moved to a calculator. And I am sure that people look at me weird as I sit in the cat food aisle for 30 mins running numbers before finally buying some, but ya gotta do what you gotta do lol

 

[Idjit's mom]

Hi and welcome to FDMB Randy and Pinky. I'm glad you are doing research and decided to register and post here.

We have many Canadian members that can help with good diet/food choices and here is something from the FAQs forum Index:
Canada

• Food Chart

@MrWorfMen's Mom
@AmandaE
@Red & Rover (GA)
@Ti-Mousse

I also found this in our FAQs forum Index:

How to Calculate the Nutrient Content of Commercial Cat Foods
Calculating % Calories from Carbohydrates written by FDMB member, Marje and Gracie
Excel spreadsheet by FDMB member, Janet & Binky (GA) - calculates percent of calories from each component

I never have used any of the above, I depended on the Food Chart by Dr. Lisa, and then went to a raw meat diet with a balanced supplement and used the FoodFurLife suggested calculations for amount to be fed.
When we first got the dx, I did calculate about 20 calories per pound of ideal body weight, but allowed for more calories until the blood sugar numbers became lower to normal. Idjit is a diet controlled diabetic.

If you would take a little time and create a signature we could see Pinky's information whenever you post. It's very helpful to know the dx date, age of kitty, what meter, what food, insulin, etc without having to ask you repeatedly or page through previous posts as we go along.

Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.

When you talk to the vet and if it's determined that Pinky needs insulin, please come back and let us know what insulin at what starting dose. Just a caution: some vets just react to the blood sugar level from a single test in that visit (which can be elevated due to travel and vet stress) and prescribe a higher dose than is really needed. Dosage can be increased or decreased at any time, after seeing how it is working by testing, and we like to only increase/decrease by 0.25 U at a time, just to be sure you don't bypass a best dose.

There are insulin support groups for all the insulins that might be used, with information about how to get the best use of, understand how it works and be able to get experienced and knowledgeable advice, plus support from fellow users.

It's all a steep learning curve at first, but I think you are well on the way with your attention to a proper diet plus already testing. Hooray for you and Pinky!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

And I am sure that people look at me weird as I sit in the cat food aisle for 30 mins running numbers before finally buying some, but ya gotta do what you gotta do lol

Been there, done that many times, and once had the chance to educate a Blue Buffalo sales rep who told me that their food was low carb. She didn't really respond because she was only repeating the spiel she had been given.

Waving to you from Central Ontario.

Go to

• Cat Food - Nutritional Composition (sortable format), data compiled by Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM (2017)

Click on File. Make copy (which will open up in a new window and also be stored to MyDrive). Then go through it and delete every row that is not applicable to your situation. There will be fewer pages to look at, and fewer cans to look for in the pet store.

The Tiki cat foods, which seem to be low or no carb and higher calorie are mostly available in Canada. As are Wellness Core, Wevura, Wild Calling, Whole Earth Farms

A Cdn member put together an additional chart of President's Choice and Performatrin.
Canada

• Food Chart

In general, the higher the protein, the higher the calories.

Unregulated diabetic cats cannot utilize their food properly. Once your cat is on insulin and fairly regulated, she will be able to get the calories needed.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Welcome and sending more waves from Ontario!

The most popular brands that are reasonably priced are Fancy Feast Pates (Classics on Dr. Pierson's list), Friskies Pates, and PC Extra Meaty from Loblaws. The Fancy Feast cans contain roughly 80 to 100 calories each depending on flavour. Pet Smart and Pet Valu frequently have the FF on sale. As mentioned a lot of the foods on Dr. Pierson's list are available here but some can get quite pricey.

A mentioned, until kitty is regulated, they can't utilize the food they eat properly so you can feed more calories than needed for ideal weight to keep further weight loss and get kitty back to their ideal weight. We also recommend several small meals per day rather than limiting food to twice daily. It's easier on the pancreas, keeps kitty more satisfied and helps keep you from going crazy listening to a starving cat.

had the chance to educate a Blue Buffalo sales rep

I did likewise with a Royal Canin rep and her "deer in the headlights" look was priceless.

Looking forward to getting to know you and Pinky!

 

[Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)]

Welcome Randy and little Pinky from a Quebecer ! Can't wait to see what she looks like!

As the others said, don't worry for calories until she's regulated! Small meals all day are the best otherwise your poor thing will starve all day long!
Dr. Pierson's list is a go-to; select low carbs and try not to pick too high Phosphorus. Fancy Feast pate and Friskies pate are not expensive at Walmart and that's what most of us are feeding; (also Amanda is watching sales at Pet Valu for us ..); the following are good choices but a little more expensive: Weruva, Fromm, Go, Holistic Selects, Hounds & Gatos, Merrick, Tiki cat, Wellness.

Hope Pinky is walking better now, it could be neuropathy which vitamin B12 will take care of easily! Nice to see that your SS is already set up and that you're starting home testing !! WOW...

There are so many things at the beginning but all this will get easier! Ask as many questions as you need, there is so much experience on this Forum! We faced all what you're going through right now and will help you and your sweet Pinky !

 

[AmandaE]

Welcome Randy and Pinky!!

Looking forward to following your progress on the board You’ve got a ton of awesome advice so I don’t really have too much to add other than to mention I feed Mowgli Fancy Feast pâtés and Friskies pâtés. I switch up flavour regularly so they don’t get too sick of one flavour. Typically i feed him about 2-2.5 cans FF / day(or about 1.5 cans Friskies) but when he was first diagnosed I’d say he would eat up to 3. Embarrassing disclaimer: I don’t pay a lot of attention to the kcal he isn’t losing weight so that’s what is most important to me.

Pet Smart and Pet Valu frequently have the FF on sale.

(also Amanda is watching sales at Pet Valu for us ..);

My eyes are always peeled for a deal!! Pet Valu has Fancy feast on all of September -10 cans for $5!! Bargain!! I usually buy 100 at a time when that happens! I have to go again this week to grab another 100 before the sale ends

Like everyone said: ask whatever questions you want. We all started at the beginning and know what you’re going through. If it doesn’t make sense... ask again!!

Good luck with Pinkys treatment! Hope to see more of your posts around the board!!

PS: you should ask your vet about Lantus or Levemir! These are human insulin’s and in Canada we can buy insulin over the counter! (Convenient) I personally don’t recommend Caninsulin unless you can stay home to monitor your cat regularly! You have to make sure your cats eat before a shot which for me was a nightmare

 

[Randy Arsenault]

Wow, more Canadians on here then I expected. ~waves~

If you would take a little time and create a signature we could see Pinky's information whenever you post.

Will do!

Fancy Feast Pates (Classics on Dr. Pierson's list)

This might be what threw me. I will keep an eye for these as well as they seem to be popular amongst the posters

Hope Pinky is walking better now

She is walking much better. She even runs when its food time, and that is huge progress from a couple of weeks ago lol Only time you really notice that she is still "wobbly" is when she tries to turn on a dime, or she shakes her head too quick she will lose her balance momentarilly.

Pet Valu has Fancy feast on all of September -10 cans for $5!!

Looks like I might be going shopping! That is MUCH cheaper then the Whiskas I am feeding her lol

Again, thank you all for your input and insight. Now once I get this testing successful more often we will be heading in the right direction. 1 success, 3 fails thus far but we are sticking with it. She doesn't like it, but hopefully she understands it needs to be done