Felix AMPS 333, dosage question

Felixkitty

Felixkitty

Member Since 2017
I posted this on the facebook page & it was suggested that I post on here for dosage advice. Does his dosage need to be adjusted/decreased?

I recently switched to tight regulation protocol w/Lantus. I know it’s common for a cat to bounce some initially when you increase their dosage. My kitty bounced for 3.5 days & then finally we saw some low numbers (50’s) to only have him bounce again (400’s). I feel terrible, he clearly doesn’t feel good & is drinking more water than he has in years. I’m assuming he’ll eventually adjust to the lower numbers? Anyone have this happen - if so, how long did it take?

Background: My kitty is 14 yo, DX 4/2017, on Lantus since fall’17- I started following the tight regulation protocol mid Feb, prior to that he was mainly between 100-300 at 1U/2x’s a day, testing w/ReliOn. Increased to 1.25 and then 1.5 after 12 days. I was hoping by decreasing his #’s, he could gain some muscle mass as his weight is ideal but he’s bony. All wet food since 2017, right now I’m feeding him EZ Complete w/cooked chicken & sometimes Tiki chicken.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BW5fbSNzZzEJ83V69m7T4pt-wwF8J2VGTtUHGFmfmp0/edit


Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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First of all Felix has not earned a decrease in dose. He bounces and will continue to do so until he gets used to normal numbers. It’s the frustrating part of the dance but has no baring on whether he will get tightly regulated. Some of our biggest bouncers bounce all the way to going OTJ. Your goal is to see more and more BG between 50-100. If you decrease before reductions are earned you will only end up having to keep increasing his insulin dose. I would try to feed him a little mc if he gets close to falling under 50 and keep him surfing above 50 to keep him at this dose as long as possible.
 
tiffmaxee said:
First of all Felix has not earned a decrease in dose. He bounces and will continue to do so until he gets used to normal numbers. It’s the frustrating part of the dance but has no baring on whether he will get tightly regulated. Some of our biggest bouncers bounce all the way to going OTJ. Your goal is to see more and more BG between 50-100. If you decrease before reductions are earned you will only end up having to keep increasing his insulin dose. I would try to feed him a little mc if he gets close to falling under 50 and keep him surfing above 50 to keep him at this dose as long as possible.
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In your opinion am I following the tight regulation protocol correctly? The increase from 1.25 to 1.5 was correct?

MC = moderate carb?

I believe you sent me a discussion of the bouncing which was very helpful. Wasn’t sure if it continuing to bounce was normal or how long to expect, sounds like could be a while or not - unknown. Hopefully we start seeing more & more lower numbers. If he bounced his way to OTJ I would be pretty happy. (I wrote off the possibility of OTJ a while ago but if it happened, it’d be great!)
 
tiffmaxee said:
This is not her first post.

Here’s your previous post. We link them for continuity.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/3-1-day-5-of-new-dose-amps-424.243928/
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Yep, I’ve posted quite a bit recently. I wouldn’t say I’m entirely a newbie, more so new to the tight regulation. I’ve been home testing since he was diagnosed 2017 but have followed a more conservative approach. I’ve noticed quite a bit of muscle loss & thought tighter regulation might help. - I’m also home more now, so I’m able to monitor him a lot better.
 
Felixkitty said:
Yep, I’ve posted quite a bit recently. I wouldn’t say I’m entirely a newbie, more so new to the tight regulation. I’ve been home testing since he was diagnosed 2017 but have followed a more conservative approach. I’ve noticed quite a bit of muscle loss & thought tighter regulation might help. - I’m also home more now, so I’m able to monitor him a lot better.
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I think you were right to increase. Mc is medium carb 10-14% .
First step is to get tightly controlled. He’s bouncing now. I bet it will be cleared tonight or tomorrow. Then it’s time to decide if an increase is needed.
 
Felixkitty said:
Yep, I’ve posted quite a bit recently. I wouldn’t say I’m entirely a newbie, more so new to the tight regulation. I’ve been home testing since he was diagnosed 2017 but have followed a more conservative approach. I’ve noticed quite a bit of muscle loss & thought tighter regulation might help. - I’m also home more now, so I’m able to monitor him a lot better.
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I'm glad to hear that your circumstances will allow you to be home more for Felix :) That's wonderful!

Looking forward to seeing your new post tomorrow and your updated signature - I know it's a lot of details...but oh so helpful when it comes to people looking at your condo/thread and then not having to ask you the same questions over and over :)

Have a wonderful evening!
 
Hello and welcome to LBL. If you haven't already, I strongly recommend reading the yellow starred Sticky Notes at the top of this forum.
Felixkitty said:
I know it’s common for a cat to bounce some initially when you increase their dosage.
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Cats don't bounce after an increase. They bounce either because they get to a lower number than they are used to, or do a steep drop in numbers. There is a phenomenon that we call New Dose Wonkiness that happens after increases, but it's only in the beginning of an increase.
Felixkitty said:
Anyone have this happen - if so, how long did it take?
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Pretty much all new cats do it, and many continue when they are no longer new. One just hopes the height of the bounce slows down. I was thrilled when after a year Neko stopped bouncing to red and bounced to pink instead. :rolleyes: The solution is more time in normal numbers, achieved by getting to a good insulin dose, in combination with feeding strategies to prevent fast drops and encourage time in good healing green numbers. In the PM of the 28th, he went from 251 to 81 in 3 hours, probably a fast drop somewhere in there. If you can get a few more tests in early in the cycle and see when he onsets, you might be able to be more strategic about feeding. Giving him some food a half hour before onset gives fresh carbs in his system and can help slow fast drops that can happen at onset. This post may be of interest to you: Using Food to Manipulate the Curve
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome to LBL. If you haven't already, I strongly recommend reading the yellow starred Sticky Notes at the top of this forum.

Cats don't bounce after an increase. They bounce either because they get to a lower number than they are used to, or do a steep drop in numbers. There is a phenomenon that we call New Dose Wonkiness that happens after increases, but it's only in the beginning of an increase.

Pretty much all new cats do it, and many continue when they are no longer new. One just hopes the height of the bounce slows down. I was thrilled when after a year Neko stopped bouncing to red and bounced to pink instead. :rolleyes: The solution is more time in normal numbers, achieved by getting to a good insulin dose, in combination with feeding strategies to prevent fast drops and encourage time in good healing green numbers. In the PM of the 28th, he went from 251 to 81 in 3 hours, probably a fast drop somewhere in there. If you can get a few more tests in early in the cycle and see when he onsets, you might be able to be more strategic about feeding. Giving him some food a half hour before onset gives fresh carbs in his system and can help slow fast drops that can happen at onset. This post may be of interest to you: Using Food to Manipulate the Curve
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the information! I’ve already read all the sticky notes at the top of the forum & the new dose Wonkiness, which I found very helpful. The last article/postings about feeding the curve is interesting, I know at least in the past HC food (specifically dry food) raises his bg within an hour (even a very small amount). He’s primarily been in the 100-300’s the last 3.5 years.

He dropped to 90 last night & then was in the 500’s this AM (Yikes) - he jumped from 390 to 543 between +10 & AMPS (No food since PM +3). I’ll start testing at +1 & +2. I’ve been feeding LC at +3.

I switched food mid February as well to EZ Complete with cooked chicken (from Tiki) & he has gained some weight (9.5 to 10 pounds). I’m wondering if that might be effecting all this as well?
 
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Starting tomorrow, it'd be great if you could start a new post. Due to the number of kitty's posting here, it's easier if we have a new post per day that you post, with a link to the previous one: POSTING GUIDELINES PLEASE READ

Sorry about last night's bounce. Could have been the unfamiliar green or a fast drop again. Maybe try feeding at +2 and see if that helps more than the +3 feeding.

The Tiki Cat and EZ Complete shouldn't be that far apart in % carbs, both are low carb.
 
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