feeding times and testing and painful shots

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

I saw in another post that timing of meals affects bg.

Shadow is used to getting breakfast when my husband gets up which is generally 6 am. I'm getting up at 7:15 ish NOW so I can get her amps and give her her shot between 7:30
and 8 am .
How much is that affecting our numbers?

Shadow usually starts howling for breakfast about 10 minutes before he gets up.
I am already sleep deprived since before diagnosis and I have been getting up to do nadir for the pmps. I also get up several times in the night to find where Shadow is
and make sure she's okay.
I intend to migrate her amps/pmps to the 8 oclock hour.

Is there a link somewhere for what time periods are best for testing? How much time should lapse between food and testing?
And I've seen it mentioned several times now that changing their diet has an immediate change in numbers. How big a change?
Shadow wasn't eating much dry food before diagnosis but she was getting many many treats like pounce and greenies and crave and so on.
I figured they were just as bad, enough to cause the same effect as a dry food diet.

I bought her the raw stuff but she only liked it on the first day. I may have to try bonito flakes on it but I expect she'll just lick the flakes off.

I also saw mention elsewhere that the shots don't hurt.
Shadow cries out when I stick her. I am trying to just pull up her skin behind her neck and I go at a slight angle and she often cries and flinches which is why I think my average
is half success and half furr shot.

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

We generally think that food can influence numbers up to two hours after eating. So, if you can figure out a system that will work with that, it would be best. Feed her and then test after 2 hours and shoot? You might want to give her a little food after the shot also.

Tell us more about the shot. What size needles? Do you warm the insulin by holding it for a few minutes before shooting? (cold insulin can sting). We had success by shooting Oliver while he was eating. Have you tried that?

 

[squeem3]

I saw in another post that timing of meals affects bg.

Shadow is used to getting breakfast when my husband gets up which is generally 6 am. I'm getting up at 7:15 ish NOW so I can get her amps and give her her shot between 7:30
and 8 am .
How much is that affecting our numbers?

It's recommended not to feed 2 hours before the Lantus insulin shot. Doing so will cause blood glucose levels to rise. I think you want a "fasting blood glucose level" for the PS test. There's more info about this in one of the Lantus stickies: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Is there a link somewhere for what time periods are best for testing? How much time should lapse between food and testing?

AMPS and PMPS are the most important. Do random testing whenever you can. Lantus usually peaks around +6 for most cats so that is an ideal time to get a test.

One of the Lantus stickies has an explanation of what happens in a 12 hour period:

0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

And I've seen it mentioned several times now that changing their diet has an immediate change in numbers. How big a change?

Some cats can drop over 100 points just from a diet change. This is why hometesting is important if you do a diet change. You need to catch any drops in blood glucose levels and reduce the insulin dose to prevent a hypo.

Shadow wasn't eating much dry food before diagnosis but she was getting many many treats like pounce and greenies and crave and so on.
I figured they were just as bad, enough to cause the same effect as a dry food diet.

Many commerical treats are just as bad with all those grains and fillers. You can feed your cat healthy low carb treats: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

I bought her the raw stuff but she only liked it on the first day. I may have to try bonito flakes on it but I expect she'll just lick the flakes off.

Freeze dried treats or actual raw pet food? Many cats like freeze dried treats, some may prefer one brand over another.

Many cats don't like raw food at first. They're so used to commerical dry and canned foods that they just don't know what raw food is. I got my rescue cat to eat raw food by first giving her freeze dried raw as treats and then slowly mixing it into raw food.

What brand of raw food did you try? Nature's Variety has a new kibble-shaped raw food you could try. It's the same as their regular raw, just in kibble-shape. You could give one kibble-shpaed piece for awhile and slowly increase the amount. Stella and Chewy's makes a freeze dried raw cat food you could try as well. It can be fed as is but you should rehydrate it so your cat gets essential water into her body.

I also saw mention elsewhere that the shots don't hurt.
Shadow cries out when I stick her. I am trying to just pull up her skin behind her neck and I go at a slight angle and she often cries and flinches which is why I think my average
is half success and half furr shot.

What guage needles are you using? 30 and 31 guage are really thin and most cat's don't notice it. Try inserting the needle bevel side up to minimize any pain.

You cat may be crying out in surprise or just gnerally complaining and not crying from actual pain.

 

[MelanieP and Ninja]

I would echo what Squeem3 said about inserting the needle with the bevel side of the needle up, that made all the difference with Ninja. In my syringes, that means holding it with the largest markings are on the top. Here is an illustration showing this:
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Injecting_insulin

I mistakenly did it the other way, and Ninja was none too happy. I also don't inject into the scruff as I read that this is not the best place for absorption, but others can speak to this. I typically try to find some loose skin -- in Ninja's case on her left or right side (more toward the top though) and make the "tent" as shown above. She really doesn't feel it. I get my syringes at Walgreens and I believe they are 31 gauge, 5/16" needle and 30 unit max capacity. They are about $16 for 100. PS: I do not warm the insulin before injecting.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

We have 31 gauge ultra comfort u-100 needles.

I saw on felinediabetes.com on the injecting insulin information about the bevel. I did just do that with her last one. I think maybe I'm too slow with the stick and the push.
I just have to practice on other objects to get a lighter touch, I think.

I have purebites shrimp for her treats which do get her attention ( shrimp and crab meat are her favorites) the chicken flavor isn't as attractive so I save it for non sticky
occasion treats .

So... to get a fasting type bg I will have to get up with my husband at 545 am. I have been getting up at 1:30 am to get her nadir for her evening shot. No sleep for me.

How much difference will I have in bg waiting for 2 plus hours after he feeds her at 545 am?
My own health is already compromised and this new lifestyle and lack of sleep are going to wreck havoc. I will have to balance that problem in the decision of whether or not to
focus on getting a fasting type morning reading vs waiting a little over 2 hrs after shadow's breakfast .

Shadow is 12 and she has lived longer than any other pet I have ever had. I will make whatever sacrifice I have to not to lose her any sooner than I have to.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xVmc#gid=0

 

[squeem3]

So... to get a fasting type bg I will have to get up with my husband at 545 am. I have been getting up at 1:30 am to get her nadir for her evening shot. No sleep for me.

How much difference will I have in bg waiting for 2 plus hours after he feeds her at 545 am?

I think it might be a 50 to 100 point difference but every cat is different.

You don't need to get the nadir after the evening insulin shot. The nadir is after the morning insulin shot is just fine and you can do this on a weekend.

 

[nwnews]

HI Rhiannon, I agree with Squeem - I just do two tests a day AM pre-shot and PM preshot - then feed and shoot. On my days off (if her #'s look wonky) then I might do a daytime nadir test or a full curve (every 3-4 hours). I wouldn't continue to have sleep deprivation by doing nadir tests at night - especially if she is reasonably regulated. Just my 2 cents worth. Jan