Feeding routine

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smiley747

Member Since 2015
So i have an appt with another vet this weekend. I the meantime my cat brandy is not on insulin. Her numbers were about 304 with twice a day canned only but i spoke to a different vet who recommended more regular feedings including dry (that shot her number up to 443...so much for that vet)...anyway since feeding her wet food three times a day (not huge qty) her numbers have dropped to 280. What is the range she should be in without insulin and with?
Will adding another feeding help too?
 
Normal blood sugar is about 60-120. This is the goal and not on insulin would mean remission/diet controlled. <200 is where complications are less likely. >250ish is where the cat is at higher risk for both acute complications like dehydration and DKA, as well as long term complications such as neuropathy and kidney disease.

Just a thought, If you happen to know any people with diabetes, they get new bottles of insulin every month and if they are on a low dose, they often will throw away a lot of insulin. You might be able to find someone on insulin that will give you their "expired" vials.
 
Can you tell us which canned food (both brand & formula) you're giving Brandy, and how many oz. per day? (Some canned foods are much lower carb than others ...)
What does she weigh now; and what should she weigh? Here's a handy chart to help you assess Brandy: body condition chart
 
About the glucose reference ranges below: The first set of numbers is the range as it would appear when using a human-type glucometer (with the second set in metric #s); the numbers shown in blue {curly brackets} are the range as would appear if using an Alpha Trak (pet-specific) meter.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {71-83 to 186-217 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers.

Just so you know: The reason I've asked the above questions (in my previous post) is that some cats are more "carbohydrate-sensitive" than others. And while we generally recommend that diabetic cats be fed canned foods containing less than 8% carbs, you'd be amazed that - with some cats - by using a canned food that is only 3% to 4% carbs versus, for example, 7% to 8% carbs can actually make a HUGE difference in blood glucose levels! It is very helpful, when treating a diabetic cat, to think along the lines of food being "medicine," too - just like insulin is medicine. Having the right kind and amount of food (for your diabetic cat's optimum weight) is crucial - whether a cat requires the addition of insulin shots to control his diabetes or not.

Another question I have is whether the blood glucose #s you've reported are tests you took at home? Or were those taken at the vet's office?
As a cat's blood glucose level (from the stress of being AT the vet's office) can register as much as 100 points higher at the vet's office than they might at home where he feels more relaxed.
 
About the glucose reference ranges below: The first set of numbers is the range as it would appear when using a human-type glucometer (with the second set in metric #s); the numbers shown in blue {curly brackets} are the range as would appear if using an Alpha Trak (pet-specific) meter.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {71-83 to 186-217 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers.

Just so you know: The reason I've asked the above questions (in my previous post) is that some cats are more "carbohydrate-sensitive" than others. And while we generally recommend that diabetic cats be fed canned foods containing less than 8% carbs, you'd be amazed that - with some cats - by using a canned food that is only 3% to 4% carbs versus, for example, 7% to 8% carbs can actually make a HUGE difference in blood glucose levels! It is very helpful, when treating a diabetic cat, to think along the lines of food being "medicine," too - just like insulin is medicine. Having the right kind and amount of food (for your diabetic cat's optimum weight) is crucial - whether a cat requires the addition of insulin shots to control his diabetes or not.

Another question I have is whether the blood glucose #s you've reported are tests you took at home? Or were those taken at the vet's office?
As a cat's blood glucose level (from the stress of being AT the vet's office) can register as much as 100 points higher at the vet's office than they might at home where he feels more relaxed.

Brandy weighs about 10 pounds..about right for her. I take blood at home. I'm feeding 9lives beef dinner and super supper pate and friskies various pates. I would like to get the lowest carb food possible. She was getting 2 cans a day (5 oz can) now she gets abit more at lunch. Checked her blood just now exact same time and routine as yesterday..267. That's almost a 20 point drop (not sure if that's significant) but its her lowest ever. First time at vet (straight ftom dry food humane society) she was 467. I adopted her not knowing she's sick. Immediately switched to canned only. But she does sneak an occasional dog kibble. If i could get her below or close to 200 without insulin that would be great.
 
Also she no longer drinks tons of water but floods the litter box and is hungry alot..i know she shouldn't be doing either. Just saying those are current symptoms. Otherwise she's happy plays like a kitten follows me lol she's seven years old
 
I think reducing carbs overall will help somewhat with sugars, there are several food charts floating around here (anyone have a link) where you can find the carbs in popular foods. The friskies pates are pretty low already though.

I have heard a few people here using small amounts of coconut oil in food that helps lower sugar. I'm not sure the mechanism of this, and too much can lead to litter box issues.

I know we've hashed the insulin issue in another thread, so I don't want to keep bugging you with it, but I just wanted to make you aware of a possible cheap solution that may or may not work for you. Generic NPH insulin ("N" insulin) is available in some states over the counter. You need to ask the pharmacist for it, and walmart carries vials for about $20. A vial likely would last months. N-insulin is a little tricky to use because sometimes you have to dose it 3 times a day to keep the blood sugars flat. Sometimes twice a day works. Also, hypoglycemia is more likely because it drops the blood sugars faster. Even still, there are some old school vets that do still use N-insulins, and even though it's not the best, it's an option if its OTC in your state. You may want to ask the vet about it if you're interested and you are seeing one soon.

The sugars are headed in the right direction with the food changes, and that is great! Hope it continues to improve.
 
Looks like the canned food you're giving in the 9 Lives group is about 4%-5% carbs, so that not bad. I'm not well-versed in raw diets; perhaps someone else here can address that. Here's a food chart for many canned & raw food brands, showing carb content, that you may find helpful (just click the blue link).

Even a few bites of dog kibble can affect your cat's blood sugar, but I think you're already aware of that ...

A few thoughts, for what it's worth:
- 10 oz. + of food is quite a bit for a 10 pound cat. (Example: My 11 lb. cat maintains her current weight at 7 oz. on a Fancy Feast Classic pate.) Seriously, 1 to 2 extra oz. of food per day - above what's needed to maintain healthy weight - can wreak havoc on blood glucose, just like a half-pound of extra weight can help keep BG levels higher. (She will continue to be extra hungry as long as her diabetes remains uncontrolled.)
- Regardless of playfulness, even a BG level of 200 - (test taken at home @ any time) - is not normal for a cat; if that's your BG goal, it's just not a healthy one for any cat. As you have already been feeding her a lower-carb diet, it's probably not all that realistic to expect you'll be able to get your cat's blood glucose under control with diet alone; I base this assessment on your report that she's still peeing and drinking water to excess. However, if you think you may, in fact, be overfeeding her, and/or she is regularly sneaking into the dog's kibble, and/or is allowed to be outdoors unattended for any length of time (where she can catch a mouse or something else to ease her hunger) it MAY be possible that with strict diet control her BGs could come down further. But also please note: the top end of "normal" cat BG range using a human glucometer is around 130 - that's a far piece from the mid 200s.

BUT ... here's the good news: Because you've already got her on low-carb food and you report she's running BG# in the mid-200s (rather than, say the 400s), it's likely she will not need a really large dose of insulin - and with careful BG monitoring, adjustment of insulin dose as required along with her diet control, you may actually get her regulated fairly quickly.

But I must say this: The longer you wait to get her regulated (the longer you allow her to go on drinking & urinating excessively) the worse her diabetes can become ... and you risk her developing some major complications down the road.

While I realize insulin is not inexpensive, two in particular - Lantus & ProZinc - have proven very effective - often with cats going into full remission. And there are other, less-expensive insulin options, too. You do not have to buy your insulin directly from the vet (they usually charge more than what you'd pay at a pharmacy or by ordering online with a valid prescription), and you can even order Lantus from Canada to save money. (Some of our members have done that, I understand.) In-clinic blood glucose testing & fructosamine tests are generally not necessary as long as you are willing to be vigilant about home BG testing. You can do the BG curves, when needed, yourself - usually much better for the cat, not to mention that it cuts veterinary expenses considerably.

Sorry this is long - I hope this is somewhat helpful to you.:) (Again, you're already miles ahead in that you know how to test at home and you have already switched her to low-carb food! So ... good job there!)
 
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I think reducing carbs overall will help somewhat with sugars, there are several food charts floating around here (anyone have a link) where you can find the carbs in popular foods. The friskies pates are pretty low already though.

I have heard a few people here using small amounts of coconut oil in food that helps lower sugar. I'm not sure the mechanism of this, and too much can lead to litter box issues.

I know we've hashed the insulin issue in another thread, so I don't want to keep bugging you with it, but I just wanted to make you aware of a possible cheap solution that may or may not work for you. Generic NPH insulin ("N" insulin) is available in some states over the counter. You need to ask the pharmacist for it, and walmart carries vials for about $20. A vial likely would last months. N-insulin is a little tricky to use because sometimes you have to dose it 3 times a day to keep the blood sugars flat. Sometimes twice a day works. Also, hypoglycemia is more likely because it drops the blood sugars faster. Even still, there are some old school vets that do still use N-insulins, and even though it's not the best, it's an option if its OTC in your state. You may want to ask the vet about it if you're interested and you are seeing one soon.

The sugars are headed in the right direction with the food changes, and that is great! Hope it continues to improve.

I don't remember with so many threads lol but Yes, a vet told me about Novolin insulin - is that what you mean? but then another vet said it sucks and wouldn't want to use it. They told me it was about $25 at Walmart so it was worth a shot for me,b ut the original vet said shed only prescribe if she could do an in office curve at a cost of $170 (with boarding) :/
 
Looks like the canned food you're giving in the 9 Lives group is about 4%-5% carbs, so that not bad. I'm not well-versed in raw diets; perhaps someone else here can address that. Here's a food chart for many canned & raw food brands, showing carb content, that you may find helpful (just click the blue link).

Even a few bites of dog kibble can affect your cat's blood sugar, but I think you're already aware of that ...

A few thoughts, for what it's worth:
- 10 oz. + of food is quite a bit for a 10 pound cat. (Example: My 11 lb. cat maintains her current weight at 7 oz. on a Fancy Feast Classic pate.) Seriously, 1 to 2 extra oz. of food per day - above what's needed to maintain healthy weight - can wreak havoc on blood glucose, just like a half-pound of extra weight can help keep BG levels higher. (She will continue to be extra hungry as long as her diabetes remains uncontrolled.)
- Regardless of playfulness, even a BG level of 200 - (test taken at home @ any time) - is not normal for a cat; if that's your BG goal, it's just not a healthy one for any cat. As you have already been feeding her a lower-carb diet, it's probably not all that realistic to expect you'll be able to get your cat's blood glucose under control with diet alone; I base this assessment on your report that she's still peeing and drinking water to excess. However, if you think you may, in fact, be overfeeding her, and/or she is regularly sneaking into the dog's kibble, and/or is allowed to be outdoors unattended for any length of time (where she can catch a mouse or something else to ease her hunger) it MAY be possible that with strict diet control her BGs could come down further. But also please note: the top end of "normal" cat BG range using a human glucometer is around 130 - that's a far piece from the mid 200s.

BUT ... here's the good news: Because you've already got her on low-carb food and you report she's running BG# in the mid-200s (rather than, say the 400s), it's likely she will not need a really large dose of insulin - and with careful BG monitoring, adjustment of insulin dose as required along with her diet control, you may actually get her regulated fairly quickly.

But I must say this: The longer you wait to get her regulated (the longer you allow her to go on drinking & urinating excessively) the worse her diabetes can become ... and you risk her developing some major complications down the road.

While I realize insulin is not inexpensive, two in particular - Lantus & ProZinc - have proven very effective - often with cats going into full remission. And there are other, less-expensive insulin options, too. You do not have to buy your insulin directly from the vet (they usually charge more than what you'd pay at a pharmacy or by ordering online with a valid prescription), and you can even order Lantus from Canada to save money. (Some of our members have done that, I understand.) In-clinic blood glucose testing & fructosamine tests are generally not necessary as long as you are willing to be vigilant about home BG testing. You can do the BG curves, when needed, yourself - usually much better for the cat, not to mention that it cuts veterinary expenses considerably.

Sorry this is long - I hope this is somewhat helpful to you.:) (Again, you're already miles ahead in that you know how to test at home and you have already switched her to low-carb food! So ... good job there!)

She doesn't drink water excessively any more. that stopped weeks ago. I can not afford Lantus. thanks for all the info. the amount of food she's eating is steadily dropping her numbers and she is not fat. I've only adopted her not too long ago.
 
Yes, Novolin N is the brand name for that type of insulin. It is not the greatest, as it is a little tricker to use, and will require careful monitoring/testing. However, if your choice is Novolin N vs no insulin, it's better to use the insulin. There's no reason to do the curve at the office. Some vets push a little, but will concede if you tell them you don't have the $ and you will perform the curve at home and send it to them. If you are lucky to live in a state where it's OTC, you don't need them to renew prescriptions either if they give you a hard time.
 
She doesn't drink water excessively any more. that stopped weeks ago. I can not afford Lantus. thanks for all the info. the amount of food she's eating is steadily dropping her numbers and she is not fat. I've only adopted her not too long ago.
Water-drinking is not the only sign of uncontrolled diabetes: "Flooding the litter box" means that excess glucose is now exiting her body via the urine stream; not a good thing (!), nor is her hunger - both are signs of uncontrolled diabetes.

You are keeping the vet appt. this weekend, I hope? The vet should be able to tell you what you should do regarding any need for insulin - there are other, much more economical choices than Lantus; only mentioned it because Lantus has a rather high rate of remission ...

Wishing you best of luck in getting your kitty turned around - and please let us know what you decide to do after you see the vet. We're here to help whenever you want it.:) - Robin
 
Water-drinking is not the only sign of uncontrolled diabetes: "Flooding the litter box" means that excess glucose is now exiting her body via the urine stream; not a good thing (!), nor is her hunger - both are signs of uncontrolled diabetes.

You are keeping the vet appt. this weekend, I hope? The vet should be able to tell you what you should do regarding any need for insulin - there are other, much more economical choices than Lantus; only mentioned it because Lantus has a rather high rate of remission ...

Wishing you best of luck in getting your kitty turned around - and please let us know what you decide to do after you see the vet. We're here to help whenever you want it.:) - Robin
yes, I know but that's what you wrote so I was just letting you know.
 
yes, I know but that's what you wrote so I was just letting you know.
Yes, I understand what you're saying: I accidentally mentioned excessive water-drinking in my earlier reply - when you'd already said she wasn't drinking tons of water anymore. Sorry about that; my bad.
 
Here's an idea (although I don't know how long ago it was that you adopted your kitty from the Humane Society): You might try geting in touch with the head of that HS & see - since they allowed you to adopt a diabetic kitty without your prior knowledge of her illness - if there's any way they can help you get insulin treatment at lower cost. You never know ... it might be worth a shot?
 
Here's an idea (although I don't know how long ago it was that you adopted your kitty from the Humane Society): You might try geting in touch with the head of that HS & see - since they allowed you to adopt a diabetic kitty without your prior knowledge of her illness - if there's any way they can help you get insulin treatment at lower cost. You never know ... it might be worth a shot?
It was only about 7 weeks ago. They only offered for me to bring her back to put her down. She would not have been adopted out at all if they had known. I tried that first. They gave me some low cost places, but none that supply cheaper insulin OR had any time to help. I've already spoken with diabetic cats in need, thanks. They've been great.
 
Adding 1 ounce of plain lean meat or poultry to 5 ounces of cat food will further reduce the carbohydrate and fat content while increasing the protein content.
 
Adding 1 ounce of plain lean meat or poultry to 5 ounces of cat food will further reduce the carbohydrate and fat content while increasing the protein content.
Great thanks for the tip! I will do that! Going to new vet today. Hoping. I appreciate you guys ..thank you
 
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