Feeding questions

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Ben&Squirrel

Ben&Squirrel

Member Since 2022
I'm not sure if I am supposed to link any previous conversations I have been in; if so, my apologies!

Our new vet has put Benny on glargine 2u/twice a day. I'm testing in between. It is only day 2. I am also wondering whether my feeding habits are making things worse for the numbers.

We have free-fed for all of Benny's 15 years. They (Benny and his sister,Squirrel,who has kidney disease) get dry food, currently SC w/d. In time I intend to have no crunchies at all.

The rest of the time, I am feeding them cans of Fancy Feast and other wet food which is moderate in protein and low in carbs and phosphorous (in part for Squirrel.) They split a can multiple times a day--maybe 4 or 5 times--usually upon their request. Most of it gets eaten.

I don't give food right before a BG test or shot, but...is it messing with Benny's numbers that he is getting multiple meals? 1. What should the schedule be in terms of feeding/testing?

The vet wants me to feed them only twice a day and I'm not sure that will work for them both. Squirrel needs to eat whenever I can get her to; I've got to get calories in these guys!

2. Have others had success going to twice-a-day feeding?

3. How does it work for the small-meals multiple times a day households?

4. Any experience with feeding both a sugarcat and a cat with kidney disease? She gets suspicious if she has to eat separately.

I welcome any tips and appreciate your experience and knowledge.
 
Hi Katherine, You only withhold food 2 hours prior to AMPS and PMPS
We feed our cats multiple times a day. I am going to tag a few members for you
One thing if you can go to your spreadsheet and make a blank line above the day you switched to glargine and just note that, it's important for members to see that if you don't know how to do that Bhooma can do it for you , thanks Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom

@FrostD
 
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Ben&Squirrel said:
4. Any experience with feeding both a sugarcat and a cat with kidney disease? She gets suspicious if she has to eat separately
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I had mentioned this on a previous post of hours you can both feed the same thing
TikiCat makes a pate line of foods. As does Weruva.
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com
You can feed them both the same food
When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pic of the food , click in Detailed Nutrition information

For Ben you might want to look for the carbs to be under 5 or 6% when you look at the Weruva Charts

You can also look on our food chart
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
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We really need to know what day you switched to glargine?
One thing if you can go to your spreadsheet and make a blank line above the day you switched to glargine and just note that, it's important for members to see that if you don't know how to do that Bhooma can do it for you , thanks Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom
You need to do a lot more testing than you have been doing after AMPS ,you have only 2 tests at PMPS. I'm going to tag some members for you but we need to know the day you switched to glargine, I assume you switched on 3-25 by looking at your spreadsheet
Keeping him in all those black numbers is not good
Have you tested for ketones yet?

@tiffmaxee

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Bandit's Mom
If you read her previous posts above Benny was getting 4 units of PZI once a day
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
We really need to know what day you switched to glargine?
One thing if you can go to your spreadsheet and make a blank line above the day you switched to glargine and just note that, it's important for members to see that if you don't know how to do that Bhooma can do it for you , thanks Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom
You need to do a lot more testing than you have been doing after AMPS ,you have only 2 tests at PMPS. I'm going to tag some members for you but we need to know the day you switched to glargine, I assume you switched on 3-25 by looking at your spreadsheet
Keeping him in all those black numbers is not good
Have you tested for ketones yet?
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The vet tested for ketones, and they were okay. While I am not good enough yet to add blank lines to my spreadsheet, I included "2 glar" as the first dose of glargine. That was 3/25. Sorry if I am re-asking questions; I'm reading the stickies but am a bit overwhelmed.

Thank you for the information on Weruva; I got some and am introducing it to them both.
 
Ben&Squirrel said:
The vet tested for ketones, and they were okay. While I am not good enough yet to add blank lines to my spreadsheet, I included "2 glar" as the first dose of glargine. That was 3/25. Sorry if I am re-asking questions; I'm reading the stickies but am a bit overwhelmed.

Thank you for the information on Weruva; I got some and am introducing it to them both.
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Hi just take your time reading the sticky's ,if you have any specific questions just ask
I asked Bhooma @Bandit's Mom to add the line for you

Are you still feeding any kibble
You forgot to fill in how many units you gave this morning 3-27 in the AM
@Ben&Squirrel
 
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Ben&Squirrel said:
Sorry if I am re-asking questions; I'm reading the stickies but am a bit overwhelmed.
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Feel free to ask as many questions as you want. It is very overwhelming at first and there is a LOT of information on this site. Too much to take in at once. We are here to help. :-)

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Bandit's Mom
Hi Bhooma do you think you can put a line above 3-25 this/would be when she switched to glargine. Thank Bhooma
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Will do it. :-)
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Bandit's Mom Hi Bhooma I'm just really concerned about all the black numbers on her SS
Before switching to glargine she was shooting 4 units of PZI once a day
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Hi Diane, I have been wondering about that as well.

@Ben&Squirrel Catherine, could you get a test before bed every night? Some cats go lower at night. It does look like he needs more insulin, but if you are transitioning him to a low carb food, we might want to see how that plays out before increasing the dose.

Tagging a few others for dose advice:
@tiffmaxee
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
 
Usually when you switch insulin you give the same amount or a little less. It looks like you were giving 4 units once a day. While it’s true that if transitioning away from dry we need to be careful with increasing with only high numbers I am more concerned about that. It’s been only 3 days so the depot needs to build for 5-7 days. See if there’s any movement in the next two days I think. Let’s see if Wendy thinks differently.
 
I think I would get rid of the W/D before I increased the dose. We don’t want to be increasing the dose while the W/D is being reduced. The dry W/D is 37% carbs so I think we will see an improvement in the BG when it is stopped.
How much of the W/D are you feeding now Catherine?

Squirrel will benefit greatly if you can get her off the dry food. Kidney disease cats need wet food not dry food and I can never understand vets who prescribe cats dry food to kidney disease cats:banghead:
If you look at THIS FOOD CHART you will see a column for phosphorus. Look for canned foods that are low carb (under10%…..best around 4-7% carbs) and with phosphorus levels that are 200 to 250 mg phosphorus/100 kcals. You will be able to feed both cats that food.
 
Bron and Sheba, If he is getting a dose at 7:30 p.m., would a 10 p.m. test be useful?

I have not been taking his food up for 2-2.5 hours before I test. Not sure if that is exacerbating his numbers or not. Starting yesterday I've been doing that and am eager to see if that helps a bit. Does anyone have any tips about how to do that in the morning? I got up at 5 to pick up their dishes so he could get a 7:30 shot and that was rough. :facepalm:
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I think I would get rid of the W/D before I increased the dose. We don’t want to be increasing the dose while the W/D is being reduced. The dry W/D is 37% carbs so I think we will see an improvement in the BG when it is stopped.
How much of the W/D are you feeding now Catherine?
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Combined, maybe a cup a day. I don't know how to get them all the calories they need; that's a lot of Fancy Feast and they don't actually eat all the solids from it.

How do people handle the nighttime wake-ups from the cats when they are hungry and have nothing to snack on? They will not allow human sleep!

Squirrel will benefit greatly if you can get her off the dry food. Kidney disease cats need wet food not dry food and I can never understand vets who prescribe cats dry food to kidney disease cats:banghead: If you look at [B said:
THIS FOOD CHART you [/B]will see a column for phosphorus. Look for canned foods that are low carb (under10%…..best around 4-7% carbs) and with phosphorus levels that are 200 to 250 mg phosphorus/100 kcals. You will be able to feed both cats that food.
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The vet who gave us the W/D food wanted Squirrel to keep eating so she did not lose a lot of weight, and she will definitely eat the W/D even when refusing other food. (They would not eat the SD dry kidney food.) He also gave us W/D wet food but they aren't fans of it.

Should she be having more carbs and less protein, in general? I've started working on the low phosphorous issue for them both.
 
My cat had both diabetes and kidney disease (and later other conditions too). She got low phosphorus raw food, some I made at home with the EXComplete premix. Just add it and water to the meat. You can also precook the meat if you want to. But she also occasionally got canned food, and there were lots of options out there for her that worked with both conditions. And yes, as others have said, multiple meals during the day or night are fine.

From the spreadsheet it looks like your cat was started on 3 units of Prozinc?!! And only got one shot per day? With dry food in the picture, we would have started your kitty on just 1 unit. I really can't tell if this is too much or too little insulin without night time tests. If you could get that test 2.5 hours after shot time, if that is just before you go to bed, that would really help us by telling us if there is an active cycle happening at night. The later the better. I used to do the blood test the last thing before turning out my light.

Ben&Squirrel said:
How do people handle the nighttime wake-ups from the cats when they are hungry and have nothing to snack on?
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I fed before going to bed, about 3-4 hours after shot time, and had an automated feeder that would open later on if I needed to use it. Another alternative is to add water to the wet food, and freeze it in ice cube trays. Pop out some and put it in the dish, it will thaw for later, keeping the food cool and adding moisture which is good for both diabetics and cats with kidney disease.
Ben&Squirrel said:
Should she be having more carbs and less protein, in general? I've started working on the low phosphorous issue for them both.
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No, you want less carbs. Cats are obligate carnivores and don't process carbs well. The "low protein" is only for cats in later stages of kidney disease. Has your vet mentioned anything about stage of kidney disease? Some vets suggest low protein well before it's needed. If you have lower carbs, then either the fat or the protein goes up. They are the three major components in food. Fiber makes up a smaller amount.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
From the spreadsheet it looks like your cat was started on 3 units of Prozinc?!! And only got one shot per day? With dry food in the picture, we would have started your kitty on just 1 unit. I really can't tell if this is too much or too little insulin without night time tests. If you could get that test 2.5 hours after shot time, if that is just before you go to bed, that would really help us by telling us if there is an active cycle happening at night. The later the better. I used to do the blood test the last thing before turning out my light.
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Okay, I will get the test right before bed.

He was started on 3u of Prozinc once a day. My vet wanted to put him on 5u once a day. I changed vets, and the new one prescribed glargine twice a day.

This might be a stupid question, but--since his values are always hi, does that not equate to his needing a higher dose, period?
 
A cat's has an internal protective system that can dump sugars to counteract what it sees as too low a blood sugar numbers which could just be lower than they are used to. I'm oversimplifying a bit. We call this a bounce. Something similar can be seen if the insulin dose is too high. However, it doesn't last forever and we would see some evidence of numbers going down low, followed by high numbers again. Testing at night will tell us if that's when the low is happening. It is also possible his dose is too low and he needs more insulin. Time and data will help us determine that.

I saw in one of your previous posts that you got the ketostix. Have you been successful in testing with them? Presence of ketones can also be an indicator of too low a dose.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I saw in one of your previous posts that you got the ketostix. Have you been successful in testing with them? Presence of ketones can also be an indicator of too low a dose.
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No, not yet. The new vet did test him on March 25 and there were no ketones.
 
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