Feeding Concern

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DianeD

DianeD

Member Since 2013
My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes last week. The vet was excellent and provided me literature and showed me how to do the shots (she needs two a day) and he started her at 1. I am taking her in this Friday to get her blood sugar checked. My question is this. My vet told me to feed her two 5 oz cans of a high protein, low carb wet food, one in the morning and one at night and waiting the 20-30 minutes after I feed her to give her the dose of insulin. But, in the morning, she doesn't always eat all her food at once - sometimes she eats about 1/2 the can and then I give her the insulin. Is it okay for her to eat the remainder of the can later on in the day?
 
Hello and welcome to the board!

Yes you can leave the food out, or give it to her again through the day -especially 4-6 hours after her shot as that is likely when ( Depending on what type of insulin you have? - let me know) the insulin hits its maximum action.

What kind of food is it? Purina DM? Its expensive.. Fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates and Wellness grain free are just as good.

The switch to wet canned food scan reduce the blood sugar levels and if this happens the need for insulin drops. But if you still give the same dose.. your cat can have a hypo. Thats why we strongly advise testing your cats blood at home to ensure you keep her safe. You can do this with or without your vets support but maybe talk to your vet first. Home testing also eliminates the need for expensive "curves" at the vet.

Here is some reading - maybe do this before Friday and ask questions of your vet, and us.. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rd6sMfsrNB41yQVEqpyjlHrJsDIbGEhbRIWR4QAwu3c/pub

Wendy
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much!! "Jezzy" is currently on Novolin N and I am feeding her Fancy Feast Classic. I've always fed my cats dry cat food but would give them canned food in the morning but would just split a can between the 3 of them - it was more like a "treat" for them. Now it is their diet and I've pulled the dry. Jezzy usually will come back a couple hours after she's eaten in the morning and want some more of her food, but I wasn't sure about leaving it out. She has always been a very good eater and is a bit overweight - about 4 pounds, so we are working at getting her down.

I've not gotten to the point where I would even begin to understand testing at home, but I am going to read the info you provided before Friday and talk to my vet. He is all about helping me to keep my costs down as I told him that was a big concern for me. He was the one who recommended Fancy Feast and sent me to Sam's Club to fill my scrips as he said that was the cheapest and no membership is required - $28 for her insulin (8 week supply) and 100 needles!

I started her on the insulin on Sunday, so she's had 4 doses so far and it seems as though I do see a slight improvement - would it work that quickly? She still drinks a lot but seems to be just at one time and it's after she eats. She doesn't seem to be running to the fountain all the time and I only had one huge pee clump from her as of this afternoon. I'm anxious for her to quit walking on her haunches - that hurts me so much to see her like that. She also doesn't seem quite as ravaneous (sp?) as before but still maintains a healthy appetite! Used to be she would even eat the dog's kibble and now she seems to be leaving that alone, but I do pick it up at night just to be safe!

Thank you again and I am sure I will be posting after I read the info! I need this help and this board/site is amazing!
 
Fancy feast classic is a great choice of food! Because its low carb it may reduce her need for insulin though so testing is very important as you dont want to shoot when she is too low. You might be able to get freebies of test kits and stuff from the supply closet on this site http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=15 or from the DCIN group which are also at that link.

Also make sure you are prepared for a hypo since you arent testing - check the link for what to buy for use in an emergency, get your emergency vet phone number and map and stick it to your fridge, and read and print out on what to do if you think your cat is having a hypo.

Insulin works pretty fast, especially if you have the right dose.

Her haunches walking is called neuropathy, many people here give their cats zobaline which is a form of vitamin B12 for cats (methylocobalamin) which is supposed to help, especially when they are regulated.

Let me know if you have any more questions and how the vets visit goes.

Wendy
 
Hi Diane,
Thanks for telling us what kind of insulin she's on. Just want to make sure, the vet prescribed two shots a day, and 1u of Novolin N per shot?

It is important, given the way that Novolin works, that you encourage her to eat before the shots. It tends to work more quickly than an insulin like Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc.
The basic way this works is that food will make her BG rise, and insulin will make it drop. They sort of work together, but as "opposing forces". Feeding her will make her numbers come up to a level where the insulin would be working against it. If she doesn't eat, the insulin could push her BG level lower than you want it to.
That's another reason that home testing is so important to us. If you test before feeding, you'll know for sure that it's a safe enough number to give insulin. After the shot, you could test to see how low it goes. If you see it dropping too fast or too far, you can deal with that by using food, karo syrup, whatever is needed to slow things down.

Fancy Feast classics are a great choice for diabetic cats, because it's very low in carbohydrates. It is likely that the food switch has already had a positive impact on her numbers. Sometimes just the diet change can reduce their insulin requirements.

And yes, sometimes the results can be immediate. Small things like less drinking and peeing can be positive signs that she's already improving. Same with a "less than ravenous" appetite. As their condition improves, their body can metabolize the food more efficiently, so it takes less food to fuel the body.

And yes, you want to make sure she stays out of the dogs kibble. That's most likely pretty high in carbs content, and it will raise her BGs.

The biggest recommendation I would have is for you to think seriously about home testing her blood glucose, using a human meter. If you were to get a Relion meter from Walmart and some test strips, you could test her several times a day for less than a dollar a day. Other meters are available, but the cost of the Relion strips is about the lowest available as far as I know. Home testing is the #1 thing you can do in order to treat this safely. A buck a day is not a bad price for safety and peace of mind!

Ask any questions you can think of. That's why we're here!

Carl
 
The vet did prescribe the Novolin and this is her 5th day on it. I am taking her to the vet this afternoon - he said to bring her in 6 hours after her dose, and he will test her blood sugar. I was going to wait until Friday but I am anxious to hear how her numbers are doing.

I am so new to this and it is most definitely a bit overwhelming, but sometimes when it seems too much, I look at her sweet little face and feel like I have to keep trying for her sake - she has been with me through so much - when my son was in Iraq and when my daughter got caught up with drugs (all is good in that area now!). Anyway, she is very special to me, as I know your pets are to you.

It seems like Jezzy can't walk that far - she will walk a little ways, then lie down - almost like her back legs her. Is that from the haunches? Will that go away when we get her blood sugar regulated? How would the vet know if Jezzy would no longer need insulin? I mean, if she is on it on a regular basis, how does one know what her counts would be without it unless she was off of it?

I apologize, I'm really not an ignorant person, but this diabetes stuff is a bit hard for me to grasp! Would I begin testing her at home this early - before we are sure what dose she needs to be on. I can say, that 1 unit doesn't seem quite right - just judging by her behavior, unless she wouldn't need it and I should quit giving it to her, but I would never stop doing that without the vet's instruction. On Wednesday night, it did seem like she had an overdose as she acted very lifeless shortly after that dose. I got my paperwork and re-read it to ensure I know how to handle. I tried to see if she would eat before giving her the honey, and she gobbled up almost a whole can of Fancy Feast and was fine after that! I've kept a diary of sorts and will share with my vet today.

Gosh, I hope and pray we can get her regulated! Here's hoping for the best...and I'll be back! :)
 
One of the absolutely the best way to tell if Jezzy needs insulin or how she is doing while on it is to just go get a human glucometer and test her yourself at home, just like a human diabetic would. This would also tell you within seconds when she is acting off if she is too low and you need to feed up her numbers to prevent her going hypo.

We can even teach you how to do it...we've taught thousands of people over the internet. Heck the folks here taught me and I'm in the middle of Nowhere. :-D Now I have 2 diabetic cats that I adopted as diabetics while still having 12 other healthy and happy kitties.

However I would talk to your vet about a change in insulins for her as N isn't the best insulin out there for kitties, works great in humans and dogs but cats metabolize insulin twice as fast as either humans or dogs so with N is hits pretty hard but by the nature of cats it wears off too soon. We have seen fantastic results in cats with Lantus, Levemir and PZI. My diabetic boy went into remission and off insulin on Lantus and has remained there for 2+ years now and my diabetic girl is on Levemir and is trying very hard to also go into remission as well.

I also feed all of mine 4 times a day, they eat basically breakfast, lunch, dinner and a before bed snack.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
No, you are not ignorant, just understandably overwhelmed like the rest of us were. It gets better, honest. The more you learn, the more confident you feel.

It may be that your vet didn't want to overwhelm you in the beginning and didn't address testing at home. Our idea is that we would never give our 2 legged child an insulin shot before testing to find our what their sugar levels are, so we treat our 4 legged children the same way. We test before each shot to make sure it is safe to give the dose we have planned. And then mid cycle to see how low the insulin is taking him. (this is why your vet wants that midcycle test. The problem is that most cats are stressed at the vet and stress raises sugar levels. That's why we trust tests at home where the kitty is calm and feels safe. Tests at the vet can be artificially high and then too much insulin can be prescribed based on those stress induced numbers)

You don't need your vet's permission to test. You are your cat's best advocate and this is the best way to keep him safe. (his lethargy after the shot is worrying; you did exactly the right thing by feeding to bring his numbers up. It certainly is possible the insulin took him low.). If you want to learn how, we would be happy to teach you. We've taught thousands of people how.
 
The walking issue will resolve a bit once her blood glucose is regulated but as I mentioned above, many people here use zobaline which is methylcobalmin form of vitamin B12 for cats which seems to help.

The vet will only know if she no longer needs insulin if he (or even better you) do tests of her blood glucose to see how she is doing and if she gets into normal levels. Until then, the key is consistent dosing and alterations to dose based on measuring her blood.

How long after her dose did she act lifeless?

Really, and I cant say this enough, to keep her safe you need to test her at home.

Let us know how she gets on at the vet!
Wendy
 
Thank you all so much for your advice - it is incredibly helpful! Her blood sugar tested at 324, which is down over a 100 from when I took her in. The vet is having put her insulin up to 1.5 starting tonight (7 pm is her shot time). I would love to get the other insulin that works better for cats, the vet tech was telling me about it today, but she said it was $150. She just found out her cat has diabetes, too, and she is using the same insulin as me and said her cat is responding very well.

Jezzy really is coming along better - her fur looks better, she is no longer acting like she's starving and she has nothing to do with the dog's kibble anymore. Before she started the insulin, she was eating everything in site like she was a starving animal!!! I can see progress in her and I would like to start home testing her.

Would I start something like that now, or should I wait until the vet has me on a fixed amount of insulin? I'm not sure how that works. It was only that one time where I could she didn't act right after the shot - and it was pretty much right after the shot, when she became sort of lethargic, but she got right up and gobbled up the food and then she was good.

What does testing mean, exactly, and what numbers should I be looking for - Jezzy weights 14 pounds (down 1/2 pound from last week). If the numbers are as they should be, does that mean I don't give her insulin, and, if so, how do I know her numbers might not raise up later? I am going to go to the link I was provided earlier and read more about home testing - I think I can soak it in now! :)

Actually, my vet was out ill today, so I met with another, but I go back on one week, unless I see problems before then, to get her sugar checked again.

Okay, I'm going to read up on home testing - is there any place else I can poke her other than the ear? She is not going to like that, though I have begun to touch her ears more and try and get her a bit more comfortable with it.

Bless you all for your help! I tried to post a picture of Jezzy but never could get the darn thing the right size for this site to accept!!!
 
Yep the Lantus is about $150 but it lasts six months.

I will let Carl talk about dose and what numbers you should be looking for. If you dont hear from him here in a day or so then PM him.

Sounds like Jezzy is doing better which is great. I would start home testing immediately. If her blood glucose is dropping then you dont want to shoot when she is too low and you wont know that unless you test. Plus it will save you $ having to get her tested at the vet.

You could try her paw pad - does she like her feet being touched?

PM me her picture and I can reduce it for you

Wendy
 
Finally! The light has come on and I get it. I understand the way the insulin works and the importance of testing! I've watched a lot of videos of folks testing their cats' BG and it looks to me like the best way is going to be in the ear, rather than the foot - Jezzy is not fond of her foot being played with and I'm a bit concerned it could get infected there. I am nervous to do the testing but Jezzy is a tough old girl and she takes the shots like nothing -- and I remember when I was nervous to do those and now I am very comfortable with it.

A few questions on testing. I know I should test before I give her insulin, but when should I test outside of that? Right now, she is eating a can of Fancy Feast before her insulin shot at 7 am, then she has another can around mid-day (if I am home) and then another at 7 pm before her insulin. How do I test around when she eats - the eating is surely going to affect the BG. Is it best to test her on an empty stomach at all times? If I test her before her regular shot at 7pm, and it appears I don't need to give her any insulin, should I go ahead and feed her and then assume all is good, or should I test her again after that and, if so, how long after that? I typically go to bed around 9 or 10. I reviewed the consumer report list for the best type of tester and found one I think I am going to get at Target. I want to get one that doesn't require a lot of blood! :)

Oh, I am now giving her 1.5 doses of insulin, twice a day. Started that Thursday night and she is drinking way, way less water and the pee clumps are normal size! And her fur looks good and I noticed her even cleaning herself! I have to remember the progress I am seeing because I can also see the little things that aren't yet to where I know they should be and that can become a bit disheartening!
 
Well with my Autumn the way the routine goes here is I test her at 7am, feed her and give her, her insulin while she is eating, then at her +6 I test, feed, then same with the evening shot...test, feed, shoot, then mine get a before bed snack at about 10-11pm and I test Autumn right before I feed her again then. Which is pretty much the least I feel safe testing, as it tells me if she is safe to shoot both am and pm as well as about where she is the lowest and how fast she is dropping before I turn in for the night.

Now with a newly dxed kitty you will probably want to catch a few more 'spot checks' than I do with Autumn since Autumn and I have doing this dance for almost a year now and I pretty much know what she is going to do when, although she still throws me a curve ball every now and then. She is afterall still a cat...lol.

If you can't catch a lot of spot checks because well life happens then when you have a day off and can run a curve (testing every 2 hours) or a mini curve (testing every 3 hours) then try to get one of those in to help fill in the picture of how she is doing on the insulin.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Thank you so much, Wendy, for resizing my photo of Jezzy! It worked! :)

This afternoon I bought my test kit so tomorrow I can start testing Jezzy's BG. I have to tell you, I am quite nervous, but I have to do it for her sake. I want her better so bad. It pains me now to see her legs hurting so bad. However, I also ordered some Zobaline from Lifelink and am so anxious to get it and get her started on it! Poor girl tried to jump on the ottoman today and couldn't - just broke my heart and made me sick to my stomach. I so hope she gets better. But, I no longer see huge clumps in the litter box nor does she drink water like she used to. She does seem hungry more so than compared to my either cats but she has always been a big eater (part of her problem, I am afraid!). Also, she doesn't have the litter stuck to her legs and feet like she used to and bless her little heart, she is still making the trek down the basement to use the box. I thought about moving one of the boxes up here, but I do want her to get some exercise, she doesn't really play like I wish she would so at least that's a little something for now.

Since I'm going to start testing tomorrow, how should I begin - when should I best and how often and how in relation to her food? She usually eats 1 can of Fancy Feast around 6:30 a, another 1/2 can around 1 pm or so, another 1/2 can around 4 pm, then another can at 6:30 pm. If I'm not home, she will eat 1 1/2 can at 6:30 and 1 can at 6:30 pm and another 3/4 can or so around 8:30 or so.

One more thing, the vet said to make sure she doesn't lose weight too fast as we don't want to damage her liver - he had originally said a 5 oz can in the am and a 5 oz can in the pm with a snack. She isn't much for snacks - loves the Fancy Feast. Each can has about 85 to 90 calories and is 3 oz and she weighs 14 pounds. Is 10 oz really enough food for a diabetic cat?

As always, thanks for your help!

Diane
 
No worries.. she is a cute girl

Great that you have the meter but dont be nervous. Many people have issues the first few times but before you know it, testing becomes really routine. read the testing tips above first and be prepared to try a few different tips and combinations of them before you find something that works for Jezzy. And make sure you give her treats.

I understand neuropathy feels more like pins and needles and tingling... so not pain as such. But when you get her BG under control and with the zobaline, it should get better. I also read that exercise helps so I would leave the litter boxes where they are. Still would prefer she was on Lantus though.

Its great that you are seeing less clinical signs like peeing and drinking. The hunger is likely because she still isnt regulated.

Here is information on Novolin (Humalin N) http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303

Note that it says

Always make sure kitty eats about an hour before his/her shot. This will insure that kitty has food on her stomach to counteract the typical fast drop of the bg's caused by N (some cats do not drop fast on it, which is, again, why hometesting is so important!).
Feeding an hour ahead also leaves you relatively sure the cat is going to keep the food down. Warning: We are dealing with cats here, which means nothing is guaranteed.
Click to expand...


I would worry about getting her regulated first, then worry about her losing weight. But lets see what another member has to say.

Wendy
 
I sort of felt the same way in regards to getting Jezzy regulated first and losing the weight later - she has enough to deal with! :)

I am going to ask the vet about Lantus and see what he says. I told him I was concerned about the finances so I know he was thinking of that. The vet tech I talked to last time I was at the vet's said she has her cat on the Novolin and that her cat is responding fabulously after only a few days. I think that's great for her, but I don't want my Jezzy to have to keep going back and forth like a yo-yo; I want her to be regulated in the best and most efficient way possible!

Wish me well for tomorrow as we begin our testing! I pricked my finger and ran a test so I could ensure I knew how to work it and it was actually very easy and the prick did not hurt at all and required very little blood so I am optimistic!

I'll keep ya' posted, m'lady!
 
How did the testing go?

Can I ask how much the novolin is and how much do you get for that? People keep saying its cheaper but I would be curious to know how much. Maybe your vets cat is regulated, but your cat has a better chance of remission on lantus. Can you imagine how it would be if your cat went OTJ and the vets didnt? Your vet would be very interested in lantus then...
 
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