Fairly new here... Trying to figure out dose

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BanditsMom

BanditsMom

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Hi All,
BACKGROUD:
I'm pretty new here. My cat Bandit was just diagnosed on Friday 8/30. Bandit's BG was 480 at the vet and I could hearing him yowling about them taking the blood. He has a tiny meow and usually doesn't make a peep, so I know he was stressed. I discussed this with the vet and they acknowledged a significant rise in BG could occur from stress. The vet prescribed Bandit 3U of Prozinc (U-40) every 12 hours with feeding. I had done a little research and expressed my desire to home test, change his diet, and be very proactive. When I asked about this, they told me to come back in a week to see how things were going and that we would go from there.

I didn't feel very comfortable leaving it like this and so I decided to check his BG myself after a day of shots (no testing) and after some more reading. I took his BG before his 3rd shot. It was 75. I thought this was good and that the insulin must be working. The vet said that normal was between 70 and 100. So I fed him and gave him his insulin thinking that the food would raise the BG and the insulin would regulate... I know now that it doesn't quite work that way and how dangerous that injection was.

To my horror when I checked again a few hours later it was 46. Needless to say, I had a very long night and butchered my poor baby's ears in between feeding him syrup. I am so thankful that he didn't have any fatal complications from the first 3 shots. Luckily, I found this forum and have had so much support and information provided to me. I can't thank you all enough.

QUESTION:
I took him off of the insulin yesterday and tracked his BG.
I decided to try giving Bandit insulin this morning. I was feeling pretty confident that I would be able to treat any low BG without help, especially since I gave him only .5 U as opposed to 3 U. So far, his BG seems pretty stable.
Here are the results:
AMPS 201 .5U
+3 184
+5 180
+7 167
*9 151
+11 165

If it stays this fairly stable this way throughout the day on .5 U, I have a feeling that I should move it up to 1 U starting tomorrow morning. If I get good results from 1U, no major/scary dips, I think should leave it that way for a little while so his body gets used to it. I will be testing about every 2 hours throughout today and more if I up the dose tomorrow.
Any thoughts / advice?
Thanks so much. All of the information here is so valuable. I have spent much of my free time reading this forum this weekend. I hope one day that I am able to pay it forward. I'm sure Bandit would love you all up to show his gratitude if he could.
Best,
Samantha
 
Thanks. I am so grateful for this forum.
I just finished all of that up.
Here are the numbers for today so far:
AMPS 201 .5U
+3 184
+5 180
+7 167
*9 151
+11 165
PMPS 176 .5U

I figured it was okay to give him the second dose of insulin for today. It looks like there's a little bit of wiggle room for him to go a little lower without too much danger. I know to watch him and keep checking him. Unfortunately, I think I will have to set an alarm for the rest of the night. I won't be able to sleep anyway after all we've been through so far.
I think I should wait and see how tonight goes and keep it the same tomorrow too just to be sure. If it stays under 200 with the dose as it is, it's not harming his kidneys... right? I'm still a little confused about where it starts to cause damage on the higher end.
He seems to be way less hungry than he used to be which is great! I am a bit afraid that he'll stop eating as much and then his BG will get too low, especially with the insulin... He's 13 lbs (down from about 17). The cans of food I am feeding him say to feed about 1oz. per pound of cat. The cans are 5.5 oz, so I am giving him one in the AM and one in the PM. He will leave his dish pretty full, then I take him back to it and he'll eat some more. He's not eating it all, but most of it. I can't leave him to free feed as my dog and the kitten will come eat it.
Thanks for all of your support and advice
 
We think their kidneys can heal if they stay under the 250-270 range. Yes, I'd watch tonight. Sometimes they are more sensitive to insulin after a hypo
 
The feeding amounts on the cans are often overstated. A good amount is about 15-20 calories per pound. So 13# * 20 = 260 calories.

Figure a 5.5 ounce can of cat food is around 170 -200 calories, depending on the food. So 1.5 to 2 cans a day. Especially with a newly diagnosed diabetic, may be especially hungry and can't process all that food properly so needs to eat up to 50% more.
 
Hi Everyone!
A little update which makes me hopeful that I am on the right track... Fingers crossed.
AMPS 201 .5U
AM+3 184
AM+5 180
AM+7 167
AM+9 151
AM+11 165
PMPS 176 .5U
PM+3 177
PM+5 163
PM+6.5 152
Will keep an eye on it.
 
Looking good. So wonderful that you were testing and caught those low numbers! We usually suggest starting at .5 or one unit and slowing increasing, if needed, relying on home testing numbers. Your vet did start on a big dose - he/she might learn something from your experience that will help the next diabetic in the practice?
 
Yes, I am definitely going to speak with my vet about my experience and the resources I have found here. I just hope that they will listen to me and not get jumpy over the fact that I am trying to teach them something. After all, if I had continued the way they suggested, my friend would mostly be dead right now.
 
I certainly think the hypo could have been deadly if you can not caught the low number and started feeding him. Your vet should realize that. You might ask why he started with the dose he did. Felines are not usually dosed on weight like dogs, but even a hugely overweight cat shouldn't start out on 3 units

You recently changed to low carb, right? If so, I think it wise to stay with the .5 for a few more cycles. On the surface, it looks like the nadir is high enough for a tiny increase but sometimes the lower carb food takes a week or more to do its work lowering the numbers. Better safe than sorry. His numbers are still in a nice range
 
BanditsMom said:
Yes, I am definitely going to speak with my vet about my experience and the resources I have found here. I just hope that they will listen to me and not get jumpy over the fact that I am trying to teach them something. After all, if I had continued the way they suggested, my friend would mostly be dead right now.
Click to expand...


I had a similar situation with my vet. Told me to dose 1.5 unit twice a day and only needed to test before shots. Well.......Rumpelteazer hypo'd. Good thing I was on FDMB before the vet visit and was home-testing. Members helped me through the hypo incident....had called vet's office...was not available...didn't call me back until the next day!! My RumpelT would have died if not for the awesome members here and all of the excellent info available.

RumpelT has not been to the vet since she was diagnosed in February 2013. I only go there when I need syringes. With the help of FDMB members on dosing/food/etc., RumpelT is down to very low doses (0.2 unit today) .... a far cry from the 1.5 units vet told me to do.

I may not be good at dosing advice for you, but will try my best (have goofy work schedule) to help whenever I can.

BTW....you did an awesome job dealing with the hypo the other night. :smile:

When RumpelT's PS number seems a 'little' lower than usual, I know food will bring it up somewhat. This might help you with deciding on a dose. Food brings number up....insulin brings it down.

Feel free to check out RumpelT's ss. Waht a sugardance it is. ;-)
 
Yes, I think I am going to stay at .5 U. I just checked his BG and it's at 162. I think we are out of the woods for now and I can check around +6 or +9 as those seemed to be the lowest and check before feeding / medicating. Bandit will be so happy that I am leaving his ears alone for most of the day :smile:
Now I just have to figure out school for my stepson. It starts tomorrow and I've been extremely fur child focused...
 
Hi Samantha,

Just noticed you put Boston as your location. I'm up on the north shore, Newburyport area.
 
Welcome Samantha & Bandit! I have to tell you Samantha that you are doing a fantastic job with Bandit's diabetes right out of the starting gate! Bandit's numbers are really looking good and with the great job you are doing its possible that he could get regulated and get what we call OTJ (off the juice) Keeping those numbers low like you are doing will give his pancreas time to heal and start working again! Keep up the good work my friend! \M/
 
Welcome! You are already very in tune with your kitty's cycles and what is needed. I am so happy that you found this place! I think dosing based on weight is crazy. My vet upped my kitty to 3 u bid the first week after starting him on 2 u . He has been a little wonky lately, but that dose was way too high at 3u. Any questions, feel free to PM me as I now have a decent amt of experience with ProZinc and am happy to help. Welcome Samantha!

PS Just took a good look at your spreadsheet and I am thinking that after holding .5u for a few more days, you could try a tiny bit more...maybe .75 of a unit and see if you can get some green numbers if you are comfortable with that after the hypo. Let the hypo clear first and wait at least until Thurs or Friday and then maybe up a bit if you will be home to monitor. I am thinking Bandit has a great chance at an early remission with numbers like that right out of the chute. :-D
 
Hey Everyone! Thanks so much for all of the encouragement and support. It really helps! I must say that YOU ALL are doing a fantastic job as well! In fact, you are AMAZING! Bandit says thank you too! He's definitely starting to feel alot better. He's been cleaning himself so much. His fur had gotten kind of gross. The litter box only has to be scooped twice a day again! He was peeing and drinking so much that I was changing the entire thing everyday. He was chasing a bug just before dinner! How playful. I think in the time that he was sick and I didn't know that I may have forgotten how playful he could be. He's even stopped begging for food in the middle of the night! YES!
Early remission is definitely what I am going for, but I want be careful. I did change his food from dry to wet. Hopefully my vet will exchange my syringes for ones with .25 marks. I am supposed to make an office visit for Friday. I don't know if it's even worth it except to ask them write me a prescription and give me a copy of his blood work results. :?

Yes Deb, I am in Roslindale. We're practically neighbors :lol:
 
Hey Neighbor Samantha!

There are not insulin syringes with 0.25U markings on the barrel. The smallest that is made are the 3/10cc syringes and some of those have 1/2 unit markings on the barrel, not all but some. For instance, I know the Walmart Relion ones do, Terumo, some BD's, some Monojects. But those are U-100 syringes. I'm not sure there are any U-40 insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.

That is why some people use a conversion chart, so they can use the U-100 syringes with a U-40 insulin.

You are using U-40 strength insulin, correct?

Isn't it wonderful when some of their old behavior returns and you just KNOW they are feeling better? From what you are describing, Bandit is showing some wonderful improvement already.
 
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