? failed reductions vs. bounce clearing / failed increase?

[Si am cat mom]

I don't post a lot because my sugar kitty guy never read the FD rulebook and just does whatever he likes, but I was wondering if we could clear up somethings. Not to further confuse folks- but here goes.

I have seen the terms failed reduction and failed increase be thrown around here. I thought a failed reduction was when you give a reduction and the numbers act like you never did- they continue to drop to an unsafe range....fail, right? Now, I understand that it just means that you gave the reduction hoping that the cat would return to previous BG range, but then are a bit higher than before the drop occurred. Confuses me , but okay
(it's explained well here)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...amps-292-11-196-pmps-218.223067/#post-2494677

My question is ...how do you differentiate clearing a bounce from that failed reduction? Also, if there is a failed reduction, why can't you have a failed increase- where you up the dose and after maybe giving you one numbers in the range you were aiming for, the BGs climb to numbers that were higher than before the increase? Seems like it would be possible on both ends, but I am likely overthinking.

My guy seems to have NDW when we change doses in general so determining bouncing from just weird numbers has never been my strong suit with him, but I was just curious in regards to the reductions that don't hold or increases that are not quite enough...
Sorry for the novel I can post this in the think tank if that would be more appropriate too

 

[Darcy and Jonesy]

I don't post a lot because my sugar kitty guy never read the FD rulebook and just does whatever he likes, but I was wondering if we could clear up somethings. Not to further confuse folks- but here goes.

I have seen the terms failed reduction and failed increase be thrown around here. I thought a failed reduction was when you give a reduction and the numbers act like you never did- they continue to drop to an unsafe range....fail, right? Now, I understand that it just means that you gave the reduction hoping that the cat would return to previous BG range, but then are a bit higher than before the drop occurred. Confuses me , but okay
(it's explained well here)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...amps-292-11-196-pmps-218.223067/#post-2494677

My question is ...how do you differentiate clearing a bounce from that failed reduction? Also, if there is a failed reduction, why can't you have a failed increase- where you up the dose and after maybe giving you one numbers in the range you were aiming for, the BGs climb to numbers that were higher than before the increase? Seems like it would be possible on both ends, but I am likely overthinking.

My guy seems to have NDW when we change doses in general so determining bouncing from just weird numbers has never been my strong suit with him, but I was just curious in regards to the reductions that don't hold or increases that are not quite enough...
Sorry for the novel I can post this in the think tank if that would be more appropriate too

Well . . . you lost ME at "failed reduction". Not a clue. But I'm also interested to hear the answers!

 

[Si am cat mom]

Well . . . you lost ME at "failed reduction". Not a clue. But I'm also interested to hear the answers!

That post explain it well....it just means you reduced and lost some of the momentum so you should not wait to increase again once the bounce clears. Often a reduction will take you out of those dangerous numbers that caused the reduction, but should not necessarily bump up your normal range of numbers. Once the bounce clears they should settle to the range they previously were in- not look higher cycle to cycle then they were before that reduction number popped up.
Make a little sense...?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

With a failed reduction, you reduce the dose but the numbers go back up and stay up. Think of it like what the numbers would be if the drop that caused. you to reduce the dose never happened. With a bounce, the numbers drop, go back up in response to a stored form of glucose and counter regulatory hormones and the numbers come back down to their original level within a few cycles.

Realistically, it can be challenging to figure out whether it's a failed reduction or a bounce.

 

[Si am cat mom]

With a failed reduction, you reduce the dose but the numbers go back up and stay up. Think of it like what the numbers would be if the drop that caused. you to reduce the dose never happened. With a bounce, the numbers drop, go back up in response to a stored form of glucose and counter regulatory hormones and the numbers come back down to their original level within a few cycles.

Realistically, it can be challenging to figure out whether it's a failed reduction or a bounce.

Makes sense kinda... I always felt like if a reduction " failed' than you shouldn't get out of the danger zone but I see what it is supposed to mean. So, essentially, you would either rule out the bounce from the failed reduction after seeing that the numbers don't really return to the previous range.
So, why isn't there a failed increase or and increase that doesn't hold.... you start to see lower numbers that aren't maybe too low for a reduction, but then they level out ( maybe after a bounce-maybe not) and it's still higher than before you increased?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Have you seen this post on bouncing and failed reductions? Know how long it takes your cat to clear a bounce. The larger depot can influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction. After the larger depot is gone, and the bouncing is over, you can see what the new dose is capable of. If the nadirs aren't where they should be, the reduction failed.

There is no failed increase. It could be you held a previous dose too long and got some glucose toxicity and the increase doesn't give you the numbers you need. Or one of a zillion other things could be happening with your cat that means they need more insulin. Just follow the dosing method for increases.

 

[Si am cat mom]

Have you seen this post on bouncing and failed reductions? Know how long it takes your cat to clear a bounce. The larger depot can influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction. After the larger depot is gone, and the bouncing is over, you can see what the new dose is capable of. If the nadirs aren't where they should be, the reduction failed.

There is no failed increase. It could be you held a previous dose too long and got some glucose toxicity and the increase doesn't give you the numbers you need. Or one of a zillion other things could be happening with your cat that means they need more insulin. Just follow the dosing method for increases.

Yea, it wasn't specific to my guys numbers.. I was just trying to wrap my head around a failed reduction but there being no such comparison of a failed increase. I also was having a hard time in looking at the SS of others in telling the difference between breaking a bounce and a failed reduction so I figured I'd ask