Eyes Please - Video of Tessie Lou's Strange Leg Spasms

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tessielou

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Hi everyone,
I usually post in the Lantus forum, but my cat, Tessie Lou, has been displaying some strange movements for several weeks now, and I don't know what it is.
Could I get some feedback from anyone who thinks they have seen this before, or have some idea what we're looking at? The link has two videos. One shows the strange spasm up close on her back area (up from her haunches) that was taken a few weeks ago. The other one, I took today. She was clearly in pain, and when I tried to move her, she actually growled at me--something she has never done before. I gave her bupe, and she is ok now. What could it be?

To view the videos, please go here: http://fototime.com/inv/3704B06883CB4C9

Thanks!
 
Hi.

It's late and I'm not too coherent, but I watched your videos - has your cat had surgery, or is her abdomen hairless because she licked off all the fur? Has your vet seen her? Did anyone mention feline hyperesthesia to you? Google it and see if there are more symptoms mentioned that you may have missed.... I think that the growling might be another possible symptom of it - irritability is a characteristic because all of the sensations/reactions typically seem to be exaggerated. (Hyperesthesia is treated with phenobarb as first treatment, usually pretty successfully.) I think I read somewhere that the Winn Feline Foundation is doing research on Feline Hyperesthesia now, too; there might be more information on their website, if you think it sounds like what's going on with your cat.

She's a little "fluffy" - does she walk okay? My first thought was that maybe she's having a disc issue of some sort. Is there an holistic vet/chiropractor in your area, perchance? Were the videos taken when she was under the influence of the bupe?

It does appear that periodically her eyes don't seem to be focusing, and small seizures might be occurring.

It will be interesting to hear with your vet has to say. I hope she is okay.
 
I agree with everything Lynda has said. Tessie Lou looks uncomfortable. Did she have surgery recently?
I don't have any experience with anything like this. So the rule is usually when you have something new going on you probably need to see the vet. Keep us posted please.
 
lynda and scruffy said:
Hi.

It's late and I'm not too coherent, but I watched your videos - has your cat had surgery, or is her abdomen hairless because she licked off all the fur? Has your vet seen her? Did anyone mention feline hyperesthesia to you? Google it and see if there are more symptoms mentioned that you may have missed.... I think that the growling might be another possible symptom of it - irritability is a characteristic because all of the sensations/reactions typically seem to be exaggerated. (Hyperesthesia is treated with phenobarb as first treatment, usually pretty successfully.) I think I read somewhere that the Winn Feline Foundation is doing research on Feline Hyperesthesia now, too; there might be more information on their website, if you think it sounds like what's going on with your cat.

She's a little "fluffy" - does she walk okay? My first thought was that maybe she's having a disc issue of some sort. Is there an holistic vet/chiropractor in your area, perchance? Were the videos taken when she was under the influence of the bupe?

It does appear that periodically her eyes don't seem to be focusing, and small seizures might be occurring.

It will be interesting to hear with your vet has to say. I hope she is okay.

First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my question. I'll try to answer your questions:
She has not had surgery; her abdomen was shaved for an ultrasound last week, which revealed pancreatitis. That's why she gets bupe now.
No, vet has never mentioned hyperesthesia. I googled it, and I can see where you might arrive at that possibility. I watched some disturbing videos of cats being really agitated and agressive. That is not Tessie. Her growl was just for a second of two. Still, I suppose she could have a mild form of it?
She is obese - 17 1/2 lbs. She waddles, and prefers to just sit or lay around. I don't know about a holistic vet/chiropractor, but that is something I'll check in to.
When I took both videos, she was NOT under the influence of bupe. She was lying on the couch both times. I gave her bupe right after yesterday's incident, and it helped in about 20 minutes she was much more relaxed. I had not noticed the eye focusing thing at all--interesting.

I have a call into the vet, who is in surgery most of the day, so I won't hear back from her until this evening.

My only other thoughts are: 1) I just started her on Pepsid AC, bid, on Monday. Could it be a reaction to that? and 2) I just started her on the bupe last Saturday. She got two doses of .15ml on Sunday, then none on Monday. I wondered, can there be withdrawal symptoms after such a few doses?
Otherwise, everything is the same. No diet change, no vomiting, diarrhea, no other symptoms. And today, she hasn't had any "events", just listless.

Thanks again!
 
She had an ultrasound, any xrays? I agree about the hyperesthesia, although on the milder side, but I'm also thinking about athritic pain. Xrays could show if athritis was starting. Second thought is adding an egg crate mattress or ortho bedding for her. Wondering if blood flow to her legs is not great. That tingly feeling you get when your foot starts to fall asleep.

You have the pancreatitis dx, so adding some injectible B12 for overall health would be a nice idea. I don't think you would see withdrawal symptoms from the Bupe after only a few doses. To answer your question on the meds, I have not seen that reaction with Pepcid or Bupe and Tucker(GA) took those all the time.
 
How much pepcid are you giving each dose? I give 1/4tab of Pepcid AC 10mg, the regular strength BID. I think the daily max is 5mg. The bupe dose you mention should not cause a problem, but I am not sure why you stopped the bupe, as pancreatitis is very painful. The pepcid is going to settle some nausea, but the bupe is for the pain, so you would give the bupe for longer than one day's worth of 2 doses.
Another important part to treating pancreatitis is fluids; you did not mention if you are giving fluids at home. Normally for pancreatitis, you will give pepcid for nausea, bupe for pain, and fluids once a day at the least.
My Shadoe does some small growls when touched during her pancreatitis attacks.

Did your vet give you the number from the fPLI test results?
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
How much pepcid are you giving each dose? I give 1/4tab of Pepcid AC 10mg, the regular strength BID. I think the daily max is 5mg. The bupe dose you mention should not cause a problem, but I am not sure why you stopped the bupe, as pancreatitis is very painful. The pepcid is going to settle some nausea, but the bupe is for the pain, so you would give the bupe for longer than one day's worth of 2 doses.
Another important part to treating pancreatitis is fluids; you did not mention if you are giving fluids at home. Normally for pancreatitis, you will give pepcid for nausea, bupe for pain, and fluids once a day at the least.
My Shadoe does some small growls when touched during her pancreatitis attacks.

Did your vet give you the number from the fPLI test results?

Gayle, I started giving her 1/4 tab of Pepcid AC 10mg, bid, on Monday. The reason I stopped the bupe was my vet said she did not want me to give it unless she was noticably in pain, like with the spasms, because it is so addictive. Unfortunately, she had a bad reaction to Tramadol, so that's not an option. As far as fluids, Tessie does not have diarrhea, nor has she ever vomited, and she drinks well. So again, the vet did not think it was necessary at this point in time. Tessie's fPLI test was 6.3, which I understand is not that high. I think top of normal is 3.4?

tuckers mom said:
She had an ultrasound, any xrays? I agree about the hyperesthesia, although on the milder side, but I'm also thinking about athritic pain. Xrays could show if athritis was starting. Second thought is adding an egg crate mattress or ortho bedding for her. Wondering if blood flow to her legs is not great. That tingly feeling you get when your foot starts to fall asleep.

You have the pancreatitis dx, so adding some injectible B12 for overall health would be a nice idea. I don't think you would see withdrawal symptoms from the Bupe after only a few doses. To answer your question on the meds, I have not seen that reaction with Pepcid or Bupe and Tucker(GA) took those all the time.

Tuckers Mom, she did not have any xrays. I wonder, too, about arthritis pain. I love the egg crate mattress idea. I'm going to go buy one asap, as I really think it could help her circulation if that's the problem. I also wondered about a pinched nerve? When it's happening, she will switch from side to side, to get comfortable. But both sides appear to be equally affected. Her weight has got to be a factor. I desperately need to get weight off her. I am reducing her food intake again today. She will be down to 7 oz/day. Good idea, too on the B12. I will ask for it.

Dianne, lab work was sent to TAMU to confirm the pancreatitis diagnosis and all the other things they check for were normal. Ultrasound showed normal liver, bladder, no tumors. She is a good drinker, so I don't think dehydration. Don't know if bloodwork covered pottassium --I will ask vet.

Thanks so much!
 
There are two folks on here that I know of who have done really well with feline weight loss, just off the top of my head. "Steph and Cuddles" with her cat Cher and "Dale" with ??? I wish I could remember the name, but I'm at a loss. Dale is also using a special bed to help with circulation because the kitty could not walk well when adopted. I want to say a magnet bed or a heated bed.

I could PM them and ask them to peak at your thread if you'd like.

You could get a human egg crate mattress, probably much cheaper at a Walmart type store and cut that to size, cover with a pillow case. Buying an egg crate mattress for a cat or dog will be much more expensive. Using the human one, you could have extra to replace if it ever gets soiled or just too flat over time. If you think pinched nerve or arthritis, you might want to add a step or box near the couch to help with getting up and down. Less stress on the joints. For my Henry(GA) we added ramps and steps in different locations for him.

ETA: I think Dale's kitty is Silci
 
A good way to test whether or not a cat is in pain is to treat for pain and observe the results. If Tessie Lou does better after receiving Bupe, there is a strong suspicion that she is in pain. If you can keep a record of this the vet may be able to work with you to prescribe a low dose of Bupe that works for her pain.

I am also wondering how her skin is on her haunches? She is probably not able to groom herself due to her weight, so she may be feeling icky or itchy, and is flicking her skin because of that. Will she allow you to gently comb or brush her in areas that she can't reach? That might help her feel better.
 
Hi Sandy,

I'm so sorry Tessie Lou is still not feeling well and having spasms. As previously mentioned, Pancreatitis is very painful. We treated Witty with Bupe for 5 days (until the bupe prescription was gone) when she would have a pancreatitis attack. I truely do not want to be disrespectful, but you must treat pain, addictiveness is not a reason not to treat pain. Addiction in humans is obviously caused by continued overuse. An animal can not overuse a medication, the human could continue to give the medication, but I do not think a 4 or 5 day course is going to cause serious withdrawl. ECID. As Linda mentioned a good way to treat pain is to observe after medication, if there is improvement than the animal is probably in pain (cats are very good at hiding their pain). As you mentioned Tessie Lou improved after about 20 minutes. I certainly wouldn't rule out twitching or spasms for reasons other than pain, but pain could possibly cause it. I also like holistic or Chiropractic care. I am sure your vet only has Tessie Lou's good health as their top priority. I hope I have not overstepped. I will continue to send loving thoughts and prayers for you both. It is clear how much you love her. Hang in there. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: . You are doing everthing you can for Tessie.
 
I just wanted to say that the chiropractor I work for does adjustments on animals. He is primarily a human chiropractor but does animals for free if their beans are patients. Maybe something you can look into in your area. Good luck!
 
tuckers mom said:
There are two folks on here that I know of who have done really well with feline weight loss, just off the top of my head. "Steph and Cuddles" with her cat Cher and "Dale" with ??? I wish I could remember the name, but I'm at a loss. Dale is also using a special bed to help with circulation because the kitty could not walk well when adopted. I want to say a magnet bed or a heated bed.

I could PM them and ask them to peak at your thread if you'd like.

You could get a human egg crate mattress, probably much cheaper at a Walmart type store and cut that to size, cover with a pillow case. Buying an egg crate mattress for a cat or dog will be much more expensive. Using the human one, you could have extra to replace if it ever gets soiled or just too flat over time. If you think pinched nerve or arthritis, you might want to add a step or box near the couch to help with getting up and down. Less stress on the joints. For my Henry(GA) we added ramps and steps in different locations for him.

ETA: I think Dale's kitty is Silci

Tucker's mom: Yes, that would be great if you could PM them for me! Any ideas from anyone who has been successful would be much appreciated. Rats, I ran out last night and bought an ortho bed at Walmart. It's one of those memory foam mattresses, and so far, it seems to be helping! She got right up on it, and slept soundly without any leg movements! She is lying on it right beside me now, and she is sound asleep, except for her front paws are moving (dreaming of running, I think. :smile: ). I love the human egg crate mattress idea though! I may still pick up one. I could cut it down to fit on her porch chair, where she spends lots of time in good weather. I've been looking for the pet stairsteps, and just found one in Pet Edge catalog which I'll probably buy. Thanks so much!

Jill, that's an idea--I'll have to look into it locally. Amazing that they can do that to cats and have it help them. Someone else on Lantus forum uses a chiro and swears by it.

(((Cheryl))) No, you haven't overstepped at all! I really appreciate your concern and your input. I am conflicted by the vet's opinion on bupe, too. I don't want an addicted cat, and she said only use it when she's obviously in pain, but we all know how they mask pain, so ...? I don't think giving it for 5 days is a bad thing either, especially during a flare up. My problem is, like today, she seemed really, really good. Spent almost the entire day on the porch (her favorite spot), and not once did I see any leg problems. Also, her PMPS was only 223 tonight, which is quite low for her, so it makes me think she was not in pain today. I won't hesitate to use it when I can see that she's hurting, but it is tricky to see sometimes. When I said she was better in 20 minutes, I mean that she relaxed, and just seemed more comfortable. Obviously if she was having muscle spasms, or just arthritis flare up, it helped. The pancreatitis is more difficult to tell, other than high BGs. I just don't want to give it if I'm not sure she needs it. It's also kind of expensive--$45 for 6 syringes of .15ml.

My quesiton is: Do people whose cats have p'titis really give bupe on a regular, ongoing basis, even when there's not a flareup?

Linda, thanks for asking about her fur. She does let me brush her every day, even the haunches, very gently, so her fur is in pretty good shape. Her backside, now that's another issue! :roll:

Thanks for the links, Gayle. I had read them after someone on Lantus had given them to me after Tessie was dx'd. Both are good, esp jojo's.
 
tessielou said:
My quesiton is: Do people whose cats have p'titis really give bupe on a regular, ongoing basis, even when there's not a flareup?

I can only speak for what has worked for my cats. Emily gets bupe on a regular ongoing basis. She started taking it for her severe arthritis pain. I had tried just about everything else with no success. The bupe made a huge difference in her comfort and ability to walk. She is currently very ill with IBD and pancreatitis, among other things, and I am certian that it is making her comfortable. Bear Man also took Bupe for his severe IBD toward the end of his life. I start with a low-ish dose (for example, an 8 hour dose for the cat's weight, given every 12 hours) and taper down to a level that seems to keep them comfortable without being overly sedating.
 
Tucker(GA) got bupe only when it was needed. During a flare and the signs for me was his head would scrunch or he would sit in the meatloaf position. When that happened, he got subq fluids, a B12 injection and bupe for about 3 days. There were times his BGs spiked and it was necessarily a CP flare. He had airborne allergies so at times it was his itchy ears that made BGs go up, I did not give Bupe for that.

We kept injectible pepcid on hand, but Tucker rarely vomitted.
 
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