Extreme sugar dancing = extreme frustration

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Laszlo

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Migs is doing better toilet-wise, still on antibiotics, however.

But ever since he got antibiotics and is feeling better we have black preshot numbers. Not always terrible mid cycle (sometimes massive swings).

To add to frustration, he has got in the habit of jumping as soon as the needle is inserted so we are getting fur shots all over the place. I'm not convinced he can actually feel it since he will do the same thing when you grab skin. I will have to try and work on training him with treats?

We are feeling extremely frustrated.

Do you think we are seeing bouncing? Too soon to say?
 
Lots of people give the shot while the kitty's face is deep in their dinner. Would that work? If not, then yes, I'd try a few treats before and after the shot. If it really becomes a problem, you can try the kitty burrito - wrap him up in a towel.

I wonder how much the recent levels reflect a little bit of a fur shot. If so, I'd get some more data on a cycle when you're sure the dose went in. His amps wasn't bad and he dropped to a nice blue today. I'd see what things look like going forward.
 
We are doing much better on the shoots - the training is working very well. Basically, I prepare treats during the day, grab some skin like I normally would for a shot, hold it long enough and then treat.

Completely change shoot times! He now purrs and stands very still waiting for it!

Still great weirdness going on with his numbers which is frustrating, but at least we can now trust the figures from Friday 14th onwards. It might be he needs an increase in the next few days if we can't get any lower for blacks?
 
Great work on the treat training! Your numbers since you raised the dose to 2.5 units look like bouncing to me. If that's the case, raising the dose would only make it worse. You had some nice blues on 10/15 and the PM increase seems to have sent him into high bounce values. He might be very reactive to dose changes in which case holding doses longer and making only very small changes might give to better results.
 
Thank you, that is an interesting interpretation that I hadn't considered. My mental thoughts on the 10/15 were 'oh, weird low value, he needs less this morning, then we'll get back to our normal dose'. But looking more objectively, bouncing could definitely be the case.
 
Laszlo said:
Thank you, that is an interesting interpretation that I hadn't considered. My mental thoughts on the 10/15 were 'oh, weird low value, he needs less this morning, then we'll get back to our normal dose'. But looking more objectively, bouncing could definitely be the case.
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Glad to help. My cat is very reactive and I can't change his dose in response to every number or he'd be everywhere in BG values, even worse than what you see on his SS. What works a little better for him is keeping AM and PM doses the same, focusing on AM dose and mid-cycle numbers to gauge how he's doing and essentially ignoring PM BG. What I think happens in the short term is that rather than his insulin need changing, his response changes. I'm trying to control those jumpy responses by avoiding any quick "moves". All the while, I recognize that his "good" dose fluctuates over time.

Maybe Migs shares some of those tendencies. Very slow, small, deliberate changes might be something to try. :)
 
Congrats on the testing arrangement! I agree with Kris. It looks like he went low a few times, and the preshots may represent a bounce from those lows. I'd suggest giving 2.75 a few more cycles, get some data when possible. Getting a number a little later in the cycle - like 8/9 - might let you see if there is a low closer to +12.
 
Good plan, I'll try to get more data.

Other good news - I've just spoken to the Royal Veterinary College, and I have an appointment next week for them to do a battery of tests to assess him for inclusion in the Exenatide trial they are running at the Diabetic Remission Clinic. Worst case he gets a battery of tests next week and they find something more serious, or best case he gets to help a good cause and some specialist oversight to try and get him regulated.
 
Cappuccino is in the trial and they are super helpful, the first visit is long - so be warned but there is a decent enough pub in the next village for lunch, she had her first injection on the first visit, I get copies of all results sent to me and e mail contact as well. Have a look at her spreadsheet if you want to see how she is doing - I am very happy so far.
 
Cappuccino is doing very well. Congrats to her and yourself!

I had a good conversation with Katarina there yesterday who explained the process. I figure we should at least try, and perhaps Migs can contribute to making this disease more treatable in the future, something positive to come out of the stress and 6am wake up for feeding and injecting!
 
Also, today we are 14 at +4 which is an improvement on yesterday. Sticking with 2.75 for the next few days.

Vet has done some follow up bloods today for potassium (which was quite low) and liver enzymes (which were ridiculously high previously). But importantly for me, he has actually put on 500g in 2 weeks!! I might need to back off on the food :)

He seems to be feeling a little better today as witnessed by a bit of quality time with his 'brother' (in reality they are cousins) - he's the one at the back.
 

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Laszlo said:
Also, today we are 14 at +4 which is an improvement on yesterday. Sticking with 2.75 for the next few days.

Vet has done some follow up bloods today for potassium (which was quite low) and liver enzymes (which were ridiculously high previously). But importantly for me, he has actually put on 500g in 2 weeks!! I might need to back off on the food :)

He seems to be feeling a little better today as witnessed by a bit of quality time with his 'brother' (in reality they are cousins) - he's the one at the back.
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Gorgeous kitties!! What breed?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Gorgeous kitties!! What breed?
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They are Burmilla (which was originally an accidental cross of Burmese & Chinchilla - but now a breed of their own). My partner always jokes that you get the worst of both breeds :) - but they are very lovely. Not great if you have allergies, short haired but double coat and they shed like nobody's business.
 
Laszlo said:
They are Burmilla (which was originally an accidental cross of Burmese & Chinchilla - but now a breed of their own). My partner always jokes that you get the worst of both breeds :) - but they are very lovely. Not great if you have allergies, short haired but double coat and they shed like nobody's business.
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I wasn't aware this breed exists. They are very beautiful!
 
The results from the bloods weren't particularly encouraging. ALT still high at 520, but Potassium is now in the normal range, and ALP has gone down.

Have started him on Ursodeoxycholic acid and Denamarin to try and support the liver, along with continuing antibiotics in case it's actually Cholangiohepatitis (even though they didn't find indications of this on his last ultrasound).

However, despite these values, I actually think he's feeling a bit better. His coat has become very soft in the last week, he seems to have more energy, and he is back to being super affectionate. Additionally, I think we are making some progress with the sugar dance. I stuck with 2.75 for a few more days with some monitoring. It seemed like we were in a pattern of having a low value, bouncing for 2 days then having another low value. Until yesterday, when he broke out of the bounce in 4 cycles then gave us our first greens yesterday. He bounced last night but surprised with reasonable value this morning and another blue. Slightly baffling as to how we should handle going forwards.....we shot 2.0 this AM as safety first, interesting to see if he bounces again tonight.
 
It is fine to drop a little low to be safe, especially if you won't be around. You can always increase; much easier than trying to decide how much to decrease. See how today does and if he is too high overall, increase to 2.25?
 
Bounced again tonight, but looks to be a lower bounce cycle - you never know what's going to happen! :)

Up to Potters Bar on Wednesday :) will be a slightly stressful day for all involved I think, he is thankfully actually quite a good traveler, more worried about the carry-on from lack of food in the morning!
 
I took a snack with us for the first appointment so she could have something after all the tests. The PMPS was predictably high but very temporary. Feliway spray applied to the carrier helped for the journey.
 
Good plan - I was thinking the same. He's usually very laid back and relaxed, but without food he can be incredibly cantankerous!

Did they have to sedate Cappuccino for the ultrasound? I think they did sedate migs for his previous ultrasound but he was in critical care at the time they did a bunch of things with the one sedation..
 
She did have very light sedation, but she had previously had an ultrasound with no sedation, and they said that in retrospect they could have done it with no sedation - she is a very laid back cat! She was fully recovered within a very short period of time and given her snack before I went to collect her. I just left it with them.


ETA Because we were travelling and the M25 is so unpredictable I also had her blood testing kit, insulin and needles and her food dish, dinner, water and a litter tray for the car. All we used was her snack! She had more luggage than I did - I just had the iPad to keep me busy whilst waiting in the pub.
 
PMPS 4.6???? I'm completely baffled! He was acting slightly differently - no obvious hypo signs but he was very affectionate. Oh dear, and no insulin tomorrow morning either. And I'm betting a bounce.
 
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