Excessive reaction to insuline

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Veronica & Babu-chiri

Veronica & Babu-chiri

Member Since 2016
I'll try to resume what has happened to my 13 year old Himmalayan about a month ago he had an urinary infection (he had had this kind of problem before when he was about 1 year old) but it is was not really very bad and it seemed to be control after some antibiotics but he kept acting kind of depressed and started loosing weight and didn't wanted to eat.

The vet ran a set of analysis and his glucose levels came of 456, so the vet started him on insulin, 1/2 unit he administered at his office, and gave me all the instructions seringes and insulin so that I could administered him 1/2 unit the next day (his dose was to be 1/2 unit) so next day I over came all my fear and gave him the shot and almost literally had to force him to eat afterwards, but he started acting more depressed and lethargic so I ran to the vet and It turned out that 3 hours after the shot he was at 106 not to make the story to long the vet stabilized him and I took him home with a regime of food and water every two hours and he more o less went for 3 days when we got back to the vet

By now he was at 360 and still depressed I with not much appetite so we gave it another try with 1/2 unit of insulin but 3 hours after his levels were at 80 (spite of the very small dose) after that the vet stabilized him and he stayed for 3 days at the vet were they administered fluids vitamins and food he actually recovered some weight but his glucose level is around 350 and he is still with little appetite and kind of depressed

Has anyone encountered something like this for what I have read they're usually very hungry ?
Any suggestions of what to look for?
 
Veronica Hernandez said:
I'll try to resume what has happened to my 13 year old Himmalayan about a month ago he had an urinary infection (he had had this kind of problem before when he was about 1 year old) but it is was not really very bad and it seemed to be control after some antibiotics but he kept acting kind of depressed and started loosing weight and didn't wanted to eat.

The vet ran a set of analysis and his glucose levels came of 456, so the vet started him on insulin, 1/2 unit he administered at his office, and gave me all the instructions seringes and insulin so that I could administered him 1/2 unit the next day (his dose was to be 1/2 unit) so next day I over came all my fear and gave him the shot and almost literally had to force him to eat afterwards, but he started acting more depressed and lethargic so I ran to the vet and It turned out that 3 hours after the shot he was at 106 not to make the story to long the vet stabilized him and I took him home with a regime of food and water every two hours and he more o less went for 3 days when we got back to the vet

By now he was at 360 and still depressed I with not much appetite so we gave it another try with 1/2 unit of insulin but 3 hours after his levels were at 80 (spite of the very small dose) after that the vet stabilized him and he stayed for 3 days at the vet were they administered fluids vitamins and food he actually recovered some weight but his glucose level is around 350 and he is still with little appetite and kind of depressed

Has anyone encountered something like this for what I have read they're usually very hungry ?
Any suggestions of what to look for?
Click to expand...
What has he been eating? Sometimes the diabetes can be controlled with low carb canned food alone. Do not give him any dry food unless your cat refuses to eat anything else. Do you have a meter so you can test him at home? You can use an inexpensive meter made for humans. You can save a lot of money because the meters made for pets cost a lot for the strips. I'm not technical, but if you look around you can find some stickies that tell you how to handle hypos and how to test. I am sure someone more experienced wil be by soon to help you out.
 
Actually he is on a tuna and some hills w/d canned food (mostly fed by force) since he refuses any other kind of food .

Haven't gotten a meter yet since he has just been diagnosed and spent a few days at the vet
 
O
Veronica Hernandez said:
Actually he is on a tuna and some hills w/d canned food (mostly fed by force) since he refuses any other kind of food .

Haven't gotten a meter yet since he has just been diagnosed and spent a few days at the vet
Click to expand...
Once you get a meter, you will know where his numbers are and be able to manage things better and kitty will be much safer. His numbers at home will be lower than at the vet because going to the vet is very stressful.
 
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Welcome to FDMB. Sounds like you've been having quite the time with your furry fellow. :(

There are several different kinds of insulin that can be used to treat cats and their action and timing of maximum effect can be quite different so please let us know what kind of insulin you are giving and we will be better able to assist you.

When your cat had the urinary tract infection, what kind of antibiotic was given?
Was/is your cat drinking copious amounts of water and peeing a lot?
Did the weight loss start before or after the urinary tract infection and antibiotic treatment?

Glucose levels in cats can be elevated by infections and stress. Vet visits cause stress and some cats can have an elevation of their glucose by 100 points or more as a result. I presume the vet checked his urine for glucose and/or ran a fructosamine test to confirm the diagnosis?

The glucose readings of 106 and 80 are perfectly normal so when you say the vet was stabilizing him, was that to treat the lack of appetite and dehydration? Did the vet say anything about ketones? Did the vet prescribe any medication for nausea and/or an appetite stimulant?
 
Hi Veronica :bighug:
It's a really difficult time when your kitty is newly diagnosed and it sounds as though you have had a rough time already.

Can you answer a few more questions, there are a lot of experienced people on this board who have faced similar and can help you through this.
Have you changed his food since he was diagnosed?
Do you know what tests he had at the vet and do you have the results? (if so can you post them as there are people who can help interpret them for you)
Are you feeding before giving insulin?
How is he otherwise? Peeing, pooping, drinking, energy levels?
Does he sit hunched over his food or water? Any vomiting?
It he on any other medication?
Apart from the urinary infection has he had any other health issues?
Which insulin are you using?
Whereabouts are you located?

Most people on the board home test using either a pet meter or an inexpensive human meter, also check urine testing for ketones. Don't worry we can guide you through how to do this and get you all set up. There are plenty of lovely people here who can help you.
 
First of all thanks for your kind words and all the help you can give me, and yes it's been a though couple of weeks. I'll try answering all your questions, as a matter of fact we spent most of the morning at the vet again, he ran a whole bunch of tests again so the results that I'm posting are from earlier today.

We are located at Mexico City in Mexico so there are limited resources as far a food ( purina does not have DM here, royal cannin only dry glucobalance), meters ( have tried to get pet meter with out any success)and even vets do not have much experience in felines, let alone feline diabetes.

That been said I'm going trough your questions

Have I changed his food since he was diagnosed?
Yes mostly because he does not want to eat, he was on royal cannin Mature dry food but as I mentioned he is mostly on canned tuna ( on water ) and hills w/d

Are you feeding before giving insulin?
No I actually fed him about 30 minutes after giving him the insulin

How is he otherwise? Peeing, pooping, drinking, energy levels?
He is very depressed, peeing and drinking more than usual and pooping a lot less than usual

Does he sit hunched over his food or water? Any vomiting?
No

Is he on any other medication?
Yes he is taking 0.625mg of ramipril daily ( for the past 3 years ) and the vet instructed this morning that I give him 17 mg of Legalon (Silymarin) daily but he hasn't taken it yet.

Apart from the urinary infection has he had any other health issues?
He was diagnosed whith hypertropic cardiopathy but his condition hasn't worsened since the diagnose 3 years ago ( the vet did an eco cardiogram, took him an electrocardiogram and blood pressure when all of this started and he ok and stable ), and sufered a lot of urinary infections for a period of about two years when he was young until I neutered him

Which insulin are you using?
The two times we injected him was with Humulin 100 Ul/ml we gave him 1/2 unit

Do you know what tests he had at the vet and do you have the results? (if so can you post them as there are people who can help interpret them for you)
The vet did some labs that I'm posting here and also and ultrasound and Xrays, which he said look ok in general, his liver seems a little enlarged but not much.

Hematocrit 3.5%
Hemoglobin 12 g/dl
MCHC 33.7 g/dl
Leukocytes 11 x10(9)/L
Neutrofilos 6.6 x10(9)/L
% grans 60%
lymhocytes 4.4 x10(9)/L
% L/M 40%
platelets 188 x10(9)/L

Glutamic pyruvic transaminase (GPT) 438 U/l
Glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase (GOT) 154 U/l
Alkaline phosphatase 528 U/l
Albumin 3.8 g/dl
Total Protein (TP) 7.4 g/dl
Globulin 3.6 g/dl
Total bilirubin (TBIL) 0.6 mg/dl
Direct bilirubin (DBIL) 0.2 mg/dl
Indirect bilirubin 0.4 mg/dl
Triglycerides 125 mg/dl

Blood urea nitrogen (BUN) 24.9 mg/dl
Creatinine 0.8 mg/dl
Inorganic phosphorous 4.2 mg/dl

Amylase 1108 U/l
Cholesterol 241 mg/dl
Glucose 421 mg/dl

Calcium (Ca) 11.0 mEq/l
Sodium (Na) 136 mEq/dl
Potasium (K) 3.3 mEq/dl
Chloride (Cl) 100 mEq/dl
 
A warm Welcome Veronica & Kitty
Is someone in here helping you with kitties results? If not we can tag some of the more experienced to help.
I did notice you are feeding kitty a lot of tuna, Im not too sure thats a balanced diet. I see kitty is not wanting to eat. Have you tried some of the baby foods witout onions or garlic? Would kitty eat any if the Fancy Feast Classic canned food? Or boiled chicken breasts? @Doodles & Karen would you mind looking at the lab results?
 
I am guessing the Humulin is Humulin N? (there are different types of Humulin insulins available). This is an intermediate acting insulin so it works quickly and then clears from the body within 12 hours. You should feed before giving the insulin as it can drop blood sugars quickly and make your kitty feel unwell so they do need to have some food for the insulin to 'work on'. As you have changed his food you should monitor his blood glucose, because a change from a dry food can drop the glucose levels.

If pet meters are difficult to find don't worry, an inexpensive human meter is fine and a lot of the guidance on the site is around readings on a human meter as the pet meters are expensive. You will need one which takes a small drop of blood and which has cheap strips as these are the main cost of testing. While you are out shopping you should also buy some urine testing strips for ketones. Don't worry, there is lots of help on the board to get you started with testing! Usually it is done from the ear but you can test the paw pad. We chart results on a google drive spreadsheet, the regime is test, feed, shoot. We also recommend getting some mid cycle tests, again don't worry we will guide you through this.

Many commercial canned pet foods are low carb - what are the main brands available to you?

There are plenty of experienced people around to help you get started and help you take best care of your cat.
 
The insulin you are using is short term. So when you give it , glucose is dropping quickly to a low number your cat is not use to. Then the body reacts and releases glycogen (so??) To raise his glucose back up. This is called a bounce. But then he isn't getting another dose until the following day. So there 12+ hours for his glucose to climb.

Can you ask your vet for a better insulin? Giving every 12 hours is the best even if you have to stay with humulin on a smaller dose though.

Not giving dry food could possibly rid the need of insulin but you HAVE to home test before eliminating dry food if giving insulin.

If food options are limited would you be willing to home cook or give raw diet?
 
DebG said:
A warm Welcome Veronica & Kitty
Is someone in here helping you with kitties results? If not we can tag some of the more experienced to help.
I did notice you are feeding kitty a lot of tuna, Im not too sure thats a balanced diet. I see kitty is not wanting to eat. Have you tried some of the baby foods witout onions or garlic? Would kitty eat any if the Fancy Feast Classic canned food? Or boiled chicken breasts? @Doodles & Karen would you mind looking at the lab results?
Click to expand...

I'm sure is not a balanced diet too , but I got to the point where I tought that was better than no food, since the lack of appetite started even before he was diagnosed and not as a result of trying to change his diet, he does not wanted his regular food .

So I started trying canned food that by the way for what I 've read seems to be better for his condition but I tried all the different recepies of Fancy Feast with no luck, currently I'm trying to convince him of eating natures valley instinct (it's the brand that I found within no grain and apparently a high value of protein) but gotten to a few licks only which is more than I got with hills w/d
 
If he likes tuna, maybe mix some with the Fancy Feast or NaturesVariety canned food. Start with more tuna and less cat food, and slowly increase the cat food while decreasing the tuna.
 
Woodsywife said:
The insulin you are using is short term. So when you give it , glucose is dropping quickly to a low number your cat is not use to. Then the body reacts and releases glycogen (so??) To raise his glucose back up. This is called a bounce. But then he isn't getting another dose until the following day. So there 12+ hours for his glucose to climb.

Can you ask your vet for a better insulin? Giving every 12 hours is the best even if you have to stay with humulin on a smaller dose though.

Not giving dry food could possibly rid the need of insulin but you HAVE to home test before eliminating dry food if giving insulin.

If food options are limited would you be willing to home cook or give raw diet?
Click to expand...

I'm searching for the meter right now, any suggestions for a human one that works better with them?

And for eliminating the dry food, well the problem is he already eliminated the dry food since he refuses to eat it

As for the insulin we are not giving him any right now as a result of his reaction to the very low dosis
 
Woodsywife said:
The insulin you are using is short term. So when you give it , glucose is dropping quickly to a low number your cat is not use to. Then the body reacts and releases glycogen (so??) To raise his glucose back up. This is called a bounce. But then he isn't getting another dose until the following day. So there 12+ hours for his glucose to climb.

Can you ask your vet for a better insulin? Giving every 12 hours is the best even if you have to stay with humulin on a smaller dose though.

Not giving dry food could possibly rid the need of insulin but you HAVE to home test before eliminating dry food if giving insulin.

If food options are limited would you be willing to home cook or give raw diet?
Click to expand...

I could ask my vet for a better insulin is there one that you can suggest so that we can see if it's available here?

My vet tougt of a lower dosis but it's hard to go lower than 1/2 unit that is what he got

And yes if it works for him I could home cook, I wouldn't go as far as raw because I think It would be hard to find good and fresh quality food here
 
Lantus or Levemir are both good long lasting insulin.
You buy U100 3/10cc 31g x 5/16 with half markings so you can give smaller doses of insulin. You can buy calipers to measure small increments if insulun.
Relion meters from Walmart are inexpensiveinexpensive as well as the test strips.
 
If your interested in raw food you can order from wholefoods4pets rabbit or quail then you just add supplements Alnutrin to the food size in serving portions and freeze.
Do you have a butcher in your city? If so Venison, Chicken , Lamb or Buffalo might be good choices.
Does the vet have any suggestions as to why kitty won't eat? Pancreatitis? IBD?
 
Good advice from the others. Welcome to the forum. Diabetes treatment can be challenging at first, keep at it.
 
I am just wondering if the hospitalisation was for pancreatitis? Did the vet mention this as a possibility? If you have not given insulin then I think the priority is to sort out the feeding issue and to check the glucose levels, some cats do not need insulin after a diet change. As for meters - many users in the US use the Relion brand as it seems reliable and takes a small drop of blood, and is cheap. I use keto-diastix for urine testing.

If you can get some blood glucose levels before feeding this will help determine what to do about insulin. No point trying to change insulin until you know if he needs it and if so how much.
 
Alexi said:
I am just wondering if the hospitalisation was for pancreatitis? Did the vet mention this as a possibility? If you have not given insulin then I think the priority is to sort out the feeding issue and to check the glucose levels, some cats do not need insulin after a diet change. As for meters - many users in the US use the Relion brand as it seems reliable and takes a small drop of blood, and is cheap. I use keto-diastix for urine testing.

If you can get some blood glucose levels before feeding this will help determine what to do about insulin. No point trying to change insulin until you know if he needs it and if so how much.
Click to expand...

No the vet did not mention that, the hospitalization was more because of dehahidration an lack of food he was given IV fluids vitamins and food, as for the gloucose levels before feeding, the 421 mg/dl of the lab results that I mention in a previous post that the vet got yesterday morning was after not having eaten anything for 8 hrs
 
We are still strugling with the feeding, he still is not hungry, we are going to try
DebG said:
If your interested in raw food you can order from wholefoods4pets rabbit or quail then you just add supplements Alnutrin to the food size in serving portions and freeze.
Do you have a butcher in your city? If so Venison, Chicken , Lamb or Buffalo might be good choices.
Does the vet have any suggestions as to why kitty won't eat? Pancreatitis? IBD?
Click to expand...

The vet is also puzzled by the eating disorder, it seems is not Pancreatitis but he hasn't mentioned anything about IBD, I'll ask him about it.

I think that I will not go for the raw food options since wholefoods4pets does not deliver down here, and it's hard to stablish how fresh is the food we get, almost always has gone trough some proces for conservation either refrigeration or freezing probably for a few days (some of the disadvantages of living in a big city)
 
Thanks everyone for your help and advice, we are going to try with a small dosage of Lantus tomorow at the vets ofice, he wants to monitor Babu probably during all morning after he gives him the shot.

I'll located a glucose monitor that we will be getting tomorow to start monitoring him at home after that :nailbiting:, as for the ketose strips no luck finding them
 
Veronica - you are not alone. I have a similar story with a vet visit and urinary infection and a glucose of 468. It all started 10 days ago. My cat wouldn't eat and was hunched over and miserable. It's so much better now. If you want to see how those 10 days went and the great help I got from people on this forum (it's a long message string), go to the Prozinc forum under Also newly diagnosed.
 
It sounds like you have a good vet. Monitoring after the first few shots is important. Actually monitoring after all shots is important too. The good thing about diabetes is that it is treatable.
 
a
Debbie Gregory said:
Veronica - you are not alone. I have a similar story with a vet visit and urinary infection and a glucose of 468. It all started 10 days ago. My cat wouldn't eat and was hunched over and miserable. It's so much better now. If you want to see how those 10 days went and the great help I got from people on this forum (it's a long message string), go to the Prozinc forum under Also newly diagnosed.
Click to expand...

Im so glad your cat is feeling better I hope Babu-chiri does too soon
 
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