Erica and Tigger, new post from Community

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Hi Erica & Tigger,
I agree that most vets are out to get your money. Call me cynical. Most of them don't even tell people that hometesting glucose levels is an option. that's because they want to do the curves cuz they cost a fortune, as you have discovered. It is so cheap to treat diabetes at home, on your own. You will test glucose levels using a human meter and do your own curves. You will even learn to adjust his dose all by yourself. Hometesting is very important because testing prior to each shot is the only way to know if it is safe to administer the insulin. No need for a vet, except for annual exams/ vaccines/ problems. I use the Walmart Relion Micro meter ($10). The strips are $20 for 50 strips. If you are in the US, this is a great option because it's cheap and uses a very small amount of blood. To get you started, you can request a "newbie kit". Lori includes a meter & some strips, rice sock (for warming up the ear, making testing much easier--just heat it in the microwave till warm), lancet, and a toy. Just pay shipping (usually around $5), although donations are alway appreciated ;-) Then when that supply runs out, you can replace it with a meter that uses cheaper strips if you like (the ones in newbie kits usually use expensive strips). Here's a link for that http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19541.

another way to save money: ditch the prescription food!!!! We all feed pate style, low-carb wet food (friskies, fancy feast, 9-lives, special kitty). So much cheaper, and way better for diabetes. here is a list of the carb counts in popular foods. We try to stay below 10% for diabetic cats. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Please come back and tell us more about what kind of insulin your kitty is on. Your Tigger, and your sister's poor kitty, deserve better tahn to be taken advantage of by the vet. We can help!
 
Hi Erica,
How are you and Tigger?
Hurry back and post what insulin you are using, what food Tigger is eating and the BG readings.
There is endless help here 24 hours a day.
 
TIgger is on Lantus, and Sasha is not diabetic. She is doing better and is home. Her levels all went down to normal, cause is still unknown. They are waiting for some test results, for the thyroid and some other things. I hope that explains the why, cause the only other answer they had to say was it could be stress. I am not sure with Tigger's levels and am thinking of starting this new way of treating with help from a new vet, instead of just on my own? Does that make sense? Also, I work at Walgreens and the pharmacist says lancets hurt a bunch and I should stick myself before I consider sticking my cat. Is it really that bad, if it was and needed to be done, I would do it, to take care of him. Oh and I got Sasha some better food, the wellness brand. What do you guys like for food? Since she is not diabetic and considering her recent trip, I figured a good wet food would be best. Can I have my vet release Tigger's records to me to look at or only have them transferred to another vet? I also have never tested for ketones, is that strange? I think I will pick up a kit because I have not heard of it. Sasha went to a different vet because she went to the Emergency Animal Hospital and the doctor there thought it was strange and recommended seeing a vet that I could test the cat myself and send my results.
 
LOL, your pharmacist is a wimp.
Seriously, poke your finger with a lancet. It doesn't really hurt. And your finger tip has more nerve endings that kitty's ear does. Bob disliked it at first, but I think more to the fact that he didn't like someone holding his ear than to the "pain" of the poke. Now he doesn't even flinch. Because he knows as soon as dad is done, he's getting a treat!
Most cats don't like testing at first. The overwhelming majority of them quickly learn that testing means treats, and it means they are going to feel better soon. Your kitty will eventually come to you asking to be tested. Bob hears the zipper on the meter case open, and he walks or runs over and lays on the floor at my feet. A minute later, he's eating shrimp. And purring.
As for canned food? Bob eats Fancy Feast Classics and Friskees Pates. All low-carbs. My non-diabetic eats the same thing. No dry food in the house any more. Both of your's will be better off eating nothing but low-carb canned, and Wellness is one of the brands lots of people here use.
All you should have to do is ask your vet for a copy of all the records. Some might charge a small fee for running copies, but you shouldn't get any resistance if you ask for them.
Testing for ketones is also a good idea. And a vet that will encourage home-testing and just let you email or fax the numbers is a vet worth dealing with. I used to fax Bob's every week to ten days, then she'd call me to discuss them.
Absolutely the BEST thing you can do for Tigger is to home test his BG every day, at least twice. You should test him just before giving him any insulin so that you can be 100% sure that it is safe to do so. So yes, definitely consider home testing. It also means you will never have to bring him to the vet for BG testing again. That will save you a bundle of money.
Carl in SC
 
Hello Erica and Sweet Tigger,

Wanted to say welcome to you!!! This is the best place you will find! It will offer you not only great advice and support but will give you the confidence you will need to do this!!! PROMISE!!

I have not told my story of my Sugar Bean in a while but wanted to share.... She was dx around 4/21/11 with numbers in the 300's.... Curve done at the vets 1 week and a day later and she was reading in the 500's. He started her out on 1 unit and increased to 2 units.... I did not increase much because of this site.... I had not started my home testing yet... I received my test kit from wonderful Lori and we started trying to pokey poke. Mommy was not that great and Sugar Bean knew it, so neither was she (at first). I probably tried testing 4-5 times and was not getting it! But, I was still shooting insulin.

This is our story: One evening about 2 hours after her shot, I did get a reading!!! YEA MOMMY AND SUGAR BEAN. EXCEPT........... Her number was only 27!!! OMG.. I posted on the site, and spoke to wonderful Lori for 4+ hours trying to increase Beans' numbers and keeping her alive! It worked, thank gosh!
It was that evening that I promised Bean to not ever shoot again unless I tested first and she does thank me everyday that I see her beautiful eyes and when she tells me goood morning and where is my food. :razz:

Bean is now in remission and I believe this site is 100% responsible for that. We changed the diet to all low carb food, and low carb treats! Her last shot was 5/15ish!!!! We still test but just not that often. Her water intake is normal and so is her peeing. I am sooo happy she is in remission and not eating high carb food... She is back to being my Sweet Bean but just not as sweet (lol).

Good luck to you and Tigger, I just know you can do this too!!!!
 
iluvtigger said:
TIgger is on Lantus, and Sasha is not diabetic. She is doing better and is home. Her levels all went down to normal, cause is still unknown. They are waiting for some test results, for the thyroid and some other things. I hope that explains the why, cause the only other answer they had to say was it could be stress. I am not sure with Tigger's levels and am thinking of starting this new way of treating with help from a new vet, instead of just on my own? Does that make sense? Also, I work at Walgreens and the pharmacist says lancets hurt a bunch and I should stick myself before I consider sticking my cat. Is it really that bad, if it was and needed to be done, I would do it, to take care of him. Oh and I got Sasha some better food, the wellness brand. What do you guys like for food? Since she is not diabetic and considering her recent trip, I figured a good wet food would be best. Can I have my vet release Tigger's records to me to look at or only have them transferred to another vet? I also have never tested for ketones, is that strange? I think I will pick up a kit because I have not heard of it. Sasha went to a different vet because she went to the Emergency Animal Hospital and the doctor there thought it was strange and recommended seeing a vet that I could test the cat myself and send my results.
Click to expand...

About your records at the old vet, just ask to get copies because you paid for the tests and should be given the copies of the results, all of them. Tell the vet you have started up a binder so you can keep track of the health issues and testing for your cats. Seriously, all test results are yours to have on paper. The vet may not want to give you copies of their scribble notes in the cat files, but items for which you paid are yours.

With foods for cats, it's not a bad idea to feed a healthy wet food, even if not diabetic.
Go to catinfo.org for lots of good food/feeding advice for your cats.

With testing a cat's blood sugar with a lancet on the tip of the ear - if it hurts, then how come my two pretty much sleep through their tests? It all depends on how you adjust the depth of the lancet device. Start shallow and it may not even pierce the skin, so dial and try again. When you get to a number that's good enough to just pierce the surface and give you a spot of blood, it's good. my two are set at 3 and 4; a cat that I petsat had his device at 2.5.

Some vets are quite good in other areas, like keeping up on meds and doing dentals and setting broken bones, but for diabetes, many don't know much at all. There is nothing to stop you from home testing because it is much safer for your cat, and feeding better food than your vet may suggest.

The people here can give you lots of support and help you along to get set up and taking charge of your cats' health and care.
 
I would like to state that most vets are not in it for the money. Many people would rather euthanize than treat diabetes, let alone test blood glucose levels at home, so vets have to walk a very thin line when advocating treatments. Further, not all vets have learned how easy and helpful hometesting is. Mine had been to a seminar by a 'specialist' who told them to use fructosamine to base doses...

Jen
 
Well I went to the new vet today, and it went pretty well. Tiggers blood sugar is low now, at 70, which is probably a high read. This vet seems to fit with what I want. They do not do curves because they are inaccurate due to stress. He doesn't recommend home testing because of errors, it seems more like at first. He wants to check him every week for a while to see where he is at. He said it would be great to check him myself and compare , that way I would now where Tigger is at on a regular basis. He said that wet food is better, especially for older cats. The price was very reasonable as well. I think I am going in the right direction here. He also gave me some cans of purina dm and said it is a good food, but if Tigger doesn't like it another low carb food would be just as suitable.
 
Well, it sounds like you have a nice vet, but I am afraid most cats don't like that DM food. There are plenty other wet foods that are low carb and Tigger will like.
It could get pretty expensive having to visit the vet every week; did the vet say how much each visit will cost you?
If it's just to check his blood sugar, what about if you tested at home and sent him a copy of Tigger's spreadsheet with all the numbers?
 
It is only $20 for the glucose and i think he just wants to see him until it is closer regulated, probably because of human error. But I will try other foods, cause I remembered Tigger had the DM before and I don't think he really liked it. After I start testing, I will talk to doctor more about that.
 
I just want you to know, you don't need your vet's permission to test Tigger at home. As often as you want. A vet tech at my 1st vet told me I was mutilating my cat's ears by testing, and "driving myself crazy". Well, I am certainly not crazy, and my Charlie's ears look as cute as ever. That office really made me mad, so I switched to a new vet and that one INSISTED on home testing. I loved them!! But then I moved, but found another awesome vet. Hometesting is their protocol as well. When your vet does testing in the office, is he doing a blood draw? Using a handheld glucose meter? Testing urine? Most use a handheld meter. That is no more accurate than the meter you can buy from walmart. Many beans have taken in their meter and compared it with the vet meter on the same drop of blood, and gotten virtually the same number. There is no human error when a meter is used properly. Thousands upon thousands of humans use those meters, and rely on them with their life. There can be meter error, which is a margin of error that we all factor in to our readings. But you will get much more accurate readings at home, under zero-stress conditions, than the vet will. You will never catch a hypoglycemic episode without a meter, and those can kill. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but hypoglycemia can and does happen to cats. My first vet actually told me that it couldn't happen. Thankfully I knew she was wrong. I just want Tigger to be safe.
 
Erica,
Just wanted to let you know I am sending your newbie kit out in the morning. a freestlye with 50 strips should get you off to a good start. Also included all the extra's and goodies. Let me know if you have any questions once you receive it k? Priority mail should arrive by Fri., Sat at the latest.
Lori
 
Yea I will start checking him at home because I dont want to blindly medicate him anymore. The vet said something also about doing a curve on your own would be illogical because of the time it takes, basically it seems like most people stay away from that option. It basically seemed like if I wanted to test him at home to keep track better, more power too me. So I think I am going in the right direction. Another thing, I worry about food with Tigger and giving him insulin. He is a big cat, 17 lbs and he used to be 20 lbs, yet he doesn't ever seem to eat a lot. He is more of a grazzer and only eats like a teaspoon or two at a time. I used to free feed him with the dry food because when I measured it, he never ate anywhere close to the amount per day he is allowed with hi weight. Does eating so little and giving insulin bad then? Is there a way to get him to eat more at a time? My other cat is so different with eating habbits, he eats about twice as much at a time, I find Tigger's eating habbits weird.
 
iluvtigger said:
Yea I will start checking him at home because I dont want to blindly medicate him anymore. The vet said something also about doing a curve on your own would be illogical because of the time it takes, basically it seems like most people stay away from that option. It basically seemed like if I wanted to test him at home to keep track better, more power too me. So I think I am going in the right direction. Another thing, I worry about food with Tigger and giving him insulin. He is a big cat, 17 lbs and he used to be 20 lbs, yet he doesn't ever seem to eat a lot. He is more of a grazzer and only eats like a teaspoon or two at a time. I used to free feed him with the dry food because when I measured it, he never ate anywhere close to the amount per day he is allowed with hi weight. Does eating so little and giving insulin bad then? Is there a way to get him to eat more at a time? My other cat is so different with eating habbits, he eats about twice as much at a time, I find Tigger's eating habbits weird.
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Doing a curve would be illogical to the vet because he would prefer that you bring tigger into a vet office, spend the whole day there for a curve to be done that will give you useless numbers because of stress and cost you a pocket full of money.

Better for you to be at home one weekend day and test Tigger every 2 hrs while he is in his own home, relaxed, and you are already there anyway. Stick to your own home testing and you will know exactly how he is doing. You will also know if it is safe to give insulin or not.

For the food, it is better for your diabetic cat to be a grazer and spread the food out because the alternative would just cause food spikes. There are some people who feed 1tsp an hour to try and spread out the food intake to slow their BG dropping alot and fast. Once you have done a few curves, you will see how Tigger reacts to the insulin and his eating, then you can try your own manipulation if needed.

One of my acros weighs 17.8lb and she eats like a bird, little nibbles; my other acro eats maybe 3 bigger meals with the odd visit for a nibble between them.

Just keep food out for grazing and keep track approximately of the amounts he is eating. He will eat when he feels the need to eat.
 
This vet said they do not do curves at his facility because they are faulty and I don't think a lot of people around here would usually do one on their own, so that is why I think he didn't recommend that one either. I know too many people who would put a diabetic cat down and who wouldn't medicate their cat either. People tell me I am crazy for taking care of Tigger a lot too, but I never take what they think seriously. I think I will still do one on my own, once I get used to testing. And the food thing is good to know.
 
Wow...the next time someone tells you that you're crazy for taking care of Tigger and deciding to home test or treat his diabetes? Ask them if their kid had been diagnosed with diabetes if they'd consider putting him or her "down"! Diabetes isn't a death sentence for a cat or dog any more than it is for a human being. It is a very managable condition, and cats can live happy lives for many years with diabetes.

Doing a BG curve will give you a perfect picture of how food and insulin interact in Tigger's body over the course of any given day. It makes perfect sense to do one. Home testing puts you in control, and it will save you a ton of money because you won't be paying your vet huge bucks to do something that you can do yourself at home for a couple dollars.

What makes a curve "faulty" at the vet is that the cat is stressed out by being there, so his numbers would be elevated throughout the entire curve. It doesn't sound to me like your vet has very much experience with feline diabetes, which is understandable. My vet has only seen about 100 cases in the 30 years she has been a vet. I've seen at least that many "newbies" join this board in the three or four months I've been around. Unfortunately, vets don't have the "luxury" of being able to pick just one disease and specializing it just that one disease. They have to know a little bit about everything, or they can't make a living. It's just sad when they discourage people (who just want to do what is best for their pets) from doing things that make perfect sense.

Carl in SC
 
Well I wouldn't say he completely discouraged me, I just think he had other thinking based on what most people would rationally do. Not that those most people are what it should be, but I don't care about easy when it comes to taking care of my cat. He encouraged everything else I had learned about though, having the attitude that it is a great idea that I check him myself. I think vets seem to be worried about stupid people making mistakes by trying to treat animals themselves, but I am going to do what is best for Tigger. I think continuing insulin without checking him is a really bad idea, so I will go to the vet to have him tested once a week for now, until I get comfortable with testing him and see where he is at through a curve.
 
Just want to stick my two cents in, just my humble opinion.

Please don't bash vets in general. Most are hard-working and love animals. But, they do need to cover their costs and need to make a decent living relative to all the hours they put in.

There have been some papers in the veterinary research that indicate glucose curves are NOT helpful and one of the reasons is the stress they incur.

_Rebecca
 
I am new to the board and have gotten very much needed help here when my cat had low BG the other night and I did not know whether to give her the shot or not. Anyhow I did not give her the shot.
My current vet DOES not want me to home test my cat. The vet tech called here this morning and reamed me for ten minutes that they do not want me home testing my cat they will do a curve on her every two weeks or so. They would not show me how to home test and were not cooperative in any fashion.
I called another vet office today and the same thing they do not have their patients home test their cats either. I do not understand this for the life of me. So I called a cats only vet here in the city and she said they will teach if the patient asks them to and all their patients use Alpha Trak meter because the readings differ in cats than using human glucometers.
So is this a new practice that the vet practices are going to? I hate leaving my cat at the vet for anything because she gets so stressed and in order for them to do the curve I have to take her the night before and leave her.
 
Terri, treatment for diabetic cats has changed very radically in the last 10-15 years and continues to change and to have many debatable topics.

Just like your personal physician, you have to seek a vet who you eel comfortable with and who knows a lot about the illnesses most important to you. It must be really hard to be a general practice vet and have to know about all animals and to try to keep up with changing treatment plans. And, as we seem to find out from personal experiences here, there are still a number of vets that are behind on the latest in feline diabetes treatment. Some welcome patients helping to educate them, some do not. If you don't have confidence in a vet, change vets.

As far as home testing goes, that practice has been recommended over and over in the veterinary literature and I agree with that I just don't understand vets that don't recommend it.
 
terri1962 said:
.....their patients use Alpha Trak meter because the readings differ in cats than using human glucometers. .....
Click to expand...

While it is true that readings done at the same time with an Alpha Trak vs a human glucometer may differ, Dr Rand an international expert on Feline Diabetes, has a reference table of the values to use when testing felines with a human glucometer. I've included the link to file which is also linked on the University Centre for Companion Animal Health web site.
Dosing protocol for cats on glargine or detemir using daily home monitoring of blood glucose concentrations to adjust insulin dose
 
Tiggers kit came in and it is going ok so far. First day I couldn't get any blood. Second day, I got blood but not enough blood. Tigger is loving the extra attention and the catnip bag.
 
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