Duke Updates 2

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B

Bone Daddy

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6/2

AMP 215 1.5 u

Spreadsheet updated.

This was actually a PM +10. I took the reading at 5:00 AM. Shot was administered at 7:00 with feeding. Next reading will be at 3:30 after work. I don't have a report yet on how much he ate. Ne nibbled at food for me, but usually eats much better for H.

Duke looked pretty good this morning. Eyes were clear. No visible weakness in the hind legs. Felt strong when he decided we should wait a bit to do the reading and I had to reposition him. He remains well groomed, although the backsid eof the hind legs needs a little work. He was near the water bowl when I woke up, but not hanging over it. Just lying normally on the floor. He was tempted into the bathroom with treats.

Found a local shop selling EVO. Will pick some up on my way home. Also looking for freeze dried chicken. It seems pretty popular wit the cats around here.

Hope your day is going as well as mine.
 
Good for you and Duke BD. Are you starting to feel comfy with your dose reduction?
Seems Duke is showing signs of getting all healthy again. are you using the fancy feast too?
 
That's a great # for a +10 (no sign of extreme zoom) and lower than some of the mid-cycle #s yesterday.... lovin' it!!! Still room for improvement, but I think it's a good # for where you are in the process. When you shoot early like that some times you will want to reduce the dose. You probably need to just be collecting data at this point to help make those decisions. Some cats will get a dramatic drop early in the cycle on an early shoot, but others will see little difference in a +10 vs. a +12 shot. If you end up at any point shooting earlier than +10 though, then I definitely would recommend a dose reduction. If you shoot early again and cat get a spot check at something like +2 or +3 that can be good data to see how they are reacting to the early shot.

The +10 being lower than the +5 overnight is a bit of a red flag to me - it could be a sign the dose is still a little high, though that's not the only explanation. The higher +9 today also makes me wonder if the dose may be too high, or perhaps was too high for that PS on an early shot. If tonight's PS is lower than the +9, that may be a sign of Somogyi and would be an indicator to lower the dose again, either to 1.25u or maybe even 1u. With regular ketone checks.

btw, I would add something in your spreadsheet by this morning's shot to make it crystal clear it was early. I used to put something like "+10" in the box immediately to the right of the AMPS and unit columns. Although it's in the notes, that is easy for someone to miss.

Nice to see the improved #s though - you almost got a bluey this morning, yippee! And if he is acting well, that is even better news!
 
AM + 9 387

spreadsheet updated.

Duke is in good spirits. He's getting his appetite back and followed me into the bathroom for what was in the bowl in my hand. Duke ate some turkey bits and some gerbers turkey while I got everything together. After test I gave him the bowl back and he ate quite well.

I'm considering buying a small scale so I can empirically determine how much he eats rather than just describing the amount. Is this more information than is needed?

Lori and Tom, I am comfortable with the 1.5 dose. So far so good.

I went to Walmart and they had the syringes calibrated to .5 units, but only with the short needle. We tried the short needles before and didn't like them. I'll check another Walmart and see what they have.
 
Hey J and B

Although I tested this morning early, he still received his shot at 7:00 as he usually dose. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I need to streamline my spreadsheet and keep the comments to a minimum. It looks like the wild swings have moderated at least, unless it's too early to tell?

Tonight the kittens and I are celebrating H's birthday. Mongolian ribs, chicken low mein, champagne, fortune cookies and baileys for her and I think a tad of vodka for me. I think I need it :-)

L and T

We do feed the fancy feast appetizers. We try to avoid gluten, grain, beef and artificial color so it limits our choice a little bit. This in response to what appeared to be a food allergy out pretty little Tatiana has, anecdotally at least. She was having problem with recurring inflammation in her ears. We read that food coloring is a possible cause so we cut it out. It has made a big difference. We stopped beef because it too was listed as a possible allergen, especially if grain fed.

No more itchy ears for Tatsie. And when Tatsie's happy we're happy. She's such a Daddy's girl that one. And loud and insistent when she wants to be petted.

BD
 
There are some who have weighed food, especially for cats who vary a lot in appetite due to other illnesses, if the changes are significant it can affect the dosing decisions. Most don't track it that exactly, but you should do what feel right to you to do. The information certainly isn't needed for your spreadsheet or for advising peeps here, it would be b/c it's something you personally want to track.

I'm not sure if they make the 1/2 unit syringes with the longer needle. You might look it up on Hocks.com (our Walmart has a pretty limited selection), or if no one here chimes in with an answer, you could ask on Health. Gator will know, but I'm not sure if he is around at the moment.

I get it now on the +10 - in that case you would put the 212 in last night's cycle in the +10 column, and then leave the AMPS box blank, since it isn't really a PS when it's that far away from the test. The wild swings are definitely improved, but as you get into more blue & green #s they may come back - often their livers over-react to good #s and will trigger rebound when it really isn't needed (try telling THAT to a cat's liver!).

That sounds like a nice b-day feast! Hope you have a great time, and yes, you have earned the right to sling back some vodka!!! :mrgreen:
 
BD altho the fancy feast appetzers do look and sound good they are not nutritionally sound and i don't think we have a carb count on them. the chicken, either chunky or classic or actually a whole list of others are listed here on Janet and Binky's food chart.
Would someone who knows how maybe link it for him.
 
PMPS 512

PMPS 512

spreadsheet updated.

Duke's BG is up there, but he looks and acts fine. Eating well. I'll test + 3 and + 5. There is only 2 more days of school left so I won't have to leave the house so early starting next week. I can get his AMPS right before his shot.

We use the Fancy Feast appetizer as an occasional treat, not as a meal replacement. Although, as much as they all like boiled turkey, I'm going to boil up some chicken and see if they like that also. This might end up being our go to treat.

Thanks as always everyone for looking over us.

BD
 
So glad to hear that Duke is feeling/acting better. Again, forgive me for not knowing why you are feeding the Gerber turkey with gravy. I have not had time to back track all the postings. I would assume that the gravy is sending Duke into high numbers? I really don't know. You're the BD, haha but I am adding the links that Lori suggested. Heck, you may have already read this?

Wheat Gluten Free Fancy Feast http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
Janet & Binky's Cat Food Nutritional Information Page http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html
Diet and Feline Diabetes http://felinediabetes.com/diet.htm

Joanna had a good suggestion as far as logging certain ways on the SS if you shoot early. You can also look up Prudence's SS... I believe on 4/16 you see how I did it. Just some ideas. ;-)

Have a wonderful evening and hugs to Duke! BTW, there were many nights I wished I could of made myself a Absolute & Tonic. :lol: Enjoy!!!! drinking24
 
I screwed up big

Hi M and P as you were typing, I was typing.

This was added in an edit:

"It's been an old trick to use baby food to get cats eating. At one time I lived with a great friend and 13 cats (that's a story for another night). Various issues crop up from time to time that needed assisted feeding and baby food was a first line of temptation. However, none of them were diabetic (at least at the time, since Duke was one of the 13)."

PM +2 Hi

spreadsheet updated

I used Gerber's Turkey and Gravy to tempt Duke into eating. Unfortunately it worked too well. He's been eating it all day. With Duke's reading going up instead of leveling off or coming down, I researched the nutritional breakdown and it doesn't look good in the carb department. My guess is this is causing the bump?

Gerber's Turkey and Gravy

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size Standardized to 100g
Amount Per Serving
Calories 80
Calories from Fat 41
% Daily Value*
Total Fat 4.5g 7%
Sodium 35mg 1%
Total Carbohydrates 2.0g 1%
Protein 7.0g
* Based on a 2000 calorie diet

A jar has approx 75 grams and Duke ate a whole Jar today.

So it's off the list and we're going to ride this one out. Next BG at + 5. No food being offered until morning.

Also looked at ingredients in Fancy Feast Appetizers as per L and T's suggestion. Not good either: guar gum and xanthum gum. Scratch them from the all the cat's diets. I'm sure they are used as a thickener, but my guess is the sugar gives it a sweet taste the cats like. It' s a shame because Duke was eating this tonight also.

Duke's Menu as it stands now:

Wellness wet
Wellness Core wet
Wilderness
Boiled turkey.

I found a local vendor for Evo which look's like a good choice from the lists I've seen. I'll pick some up tomorrow on my way home.

Duke looks fine and is acting fine. Active, talking and interacting with the peeps.

H and I look fine, are acting fine and are interacting with the kittens.
 
We feed Wellness Healthy Indulgence because its stated on their website that:

Wellness® Healthy Indulgence® recipes contain no wheat or wheat gluten, no corn or soy, no artificial colors or flavors.

This is important with Tatsie suspected food allergy and the reason we originally switched over to a Wellness diet.

However it looks like that's not good for Duke either:

It's listed as low carb, but has potato starch, sweet potatoes, Guar gum, blueberries, cranberries, yikes.

Is this one more to take off the list?
 
;-) gottcha on the baby food. I know this food thing can drive you crazy at times. I think I've bought every cat canned food known to man. However, I did not try the Evo. I just saw a posting where someone is trying the Evo dry for her FD. Again, Have no idea about that one except Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM, JD says, "Stay away from any dry food". nailbite_smile http://yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html

I will tell you what seem to work for us. I tried the FF, Friskies blah blah, but once I started feeding the Walmart crappy Special Kitty... everything changed for us. I did get a bit anal with logging EVERYTHING down, so I could rule out what worked etc. I know every kitty is different, but I just wanted to share what worked for us. Although FF or Friskies brought Pru down into the blues... I wasn't seeing greens like I wanted. That Special Kitty plus Sophisticat Adult Supreme did the trick. I felt like I was a bad mama for buying the cheapest cat food out there... but it was working. Just figured that cats love to hunt and eat birds, mice etc, haha Special kitty probably had all that crap in there. :lol: Anyway, Pru is just over 3 weeks OTJ and I've started feeding Friskies working my way back up to some better canned foods. Her numbers have been great, so I dunno, maybe that Special Kitty is Special kitty food. :-D

Just so you know.... Special Kitty is great for Pru, but my other 4 babies do not like it. This whole FD is still a challenge when other furballs are in the picture. I have to feed one of them in the bathroom because he's losing weight. ohmygod_smile I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to handle all of this.
 
The guar gum and potato stuff isn't as bad as you think since it is usually in such small quantities. What is important is that less than 10% of the calorie content per can is from carbohydrates, preferably around 5% or less. I know many of the Fancy Feast flavors (if not all) contain guar gum and many people here on the board feed it just fine. What is most important is to see meat as the first few ingredients, little to no grains, and very low carbohydrate percentage. When you start looking at Wellness, EVO, and others, you start paying for 'human grade ingredients' (basically food that is deemed human consumption worthy by the FDA/USDA). For Oscar, we feed a combination of Nature's Variety Raw Chicken medallions (human grade chicken) and Fancy Feast grain free since I can't afford to go completely raw, or completely human grade food. In the end, it is always a balancing game, but I didn't want you to freak out about the guar gum. It is actually a natural plant derivative used for thickening from what I have researched (used instead of wheat gluten).
 
EVO dry - I would stay away. Not sure if you are looking at wet or dry? There has been discussion about whether the 7% they claim is really true. I think from what I read it is more like 11% or something, and then the whole dry food factor makes it a no-no.

Baby food - I'm thinking maybe the straight ones (Gerber chicken or turkey, always be sure no onions/onion flavor added) are ok? I have never seen discussion of it, but I can't see where carbs might come in, unless from the corn starch they use in?

Eating - especially with a ketone-prone kitty, eating trumps most other things, including BG #s and food choices. If something higher carb is the only thing he will eat, that is still better than nothing.

BG numbers - Definitely *something* is going on that you got a really improved cycle last night, that 212 is awesome, and then #s really going high again now. Could be due to several things, but if you think some of the food has been higher carb, I would pursue that as the first probable reason. But again, eating enough food, regardless of carb level is #1 priority. If he isn't liking the lower carb things exclusively, people may be able to share tricks on making it tastier - there are low-carb things you can sprinkle on top, etc. that might help.

Michelle - I am so jealous about the Special Kitty! Bix throws up anything that isn't expensive - it's like he knows the price tag and sets his sights high. ohmygod_smile And ahhh, the bathroom feeding plan. Been there, done that, lol. I had one who never got enough (she was at the bottom of the totem pole, and her food was always getting stolen) and was losing weight. I started feeding her in the powder room, til one of the other kitties started lying in wait outside the bathroom door, and then tackling her when I would let her out! Kitty jealously I guess. Can't remember how I managed things after that, but I do remember the bathroom feedings, what a pain! I also had a counter feeder for a while - he would eat his special prescription food up on the counter while everyone else ate their regular food on the floor, and I stood guard during the whole thing for any jumpers. Ahhh, the good old days. :) p.s. if Pru's doing well on the one food, I wouldn't touch a thing! whatever works, works, right?
 
Numbers came down

Thanks everyone.

Busy day at school, so I'm late at posting the numbers.

AMPS 380

spreadsheet updated.

I'm pleased it's coming down. I didn't bother doing a + 5 because I knew it would be high and wanted to spare Dukie's ear an unnecessary poke.

Thanks for all the food suggestions. Since I have the summer to try things, I'm thinking of trying my hand at making food for the kittens. Sounds like it's worth a try.

Tomorrow I can start my AMPS at 7:00 before food. No mandatory 5:00 AM wake up calls for the summer.

Wohoo.
 
+ 9 304

AMPS 324 (this is a correction)

+10 304 (4:00 PM)

spreadsheet corrected and updated

4:00 Duke ate about 2.5 oz of EVO beef wet. So far he approves.
This will effect his 7:00 reading, but at least I now that if the numbers are a little higher than I want it would be due to Duke eating.

Duke continues to look good. I'd sure like him to gain a pound or two. We're also waiting for his ruff to grow back in. He always had a magnificent, full, snow white ruff. They shaved about half of it off when he was first hospitalized. I'm guessing his body has other things to take care of than growing back fur.

BD
 
That's great that he is looking good and eating well today. I have found sometimes when they have been ill the hair takes longer to grow back in :( I guess their bodies have to prioritize the resources or something, like you said.

On the threads, we don't have many (any?) daily posters at the moment (Bix's story right now is too boring to bother!), but what you can do is start a new thread each day with a title "6/3 Duke" for example, and include anything in the title that might be an important news flash you want to be sure people know about, so they'll peek in on your thread right away. Then you can just start a new thread each day like that.

On the EVO, if it's the 95% meat stuff, be sure you are adding whatever is needed to make it a balanced meal. I don't know what needs to be added, but I know that has come up before with other beans. I can't remember with 100% certainty if that's even EVO, but it rings a vague bell, so just wanted to mention it to be on the safe side.

If his #s don't come down further soon, I would consider raising his dose to 1.75u. That one lower +10 made me wonder if the 1.5 was still too high, but I haven't seen any further evidence to suggest that, although I'll be more comfortable commenting after the next nadir-ish spot check.

Continued nice day wishes!!! :)
 
BD,

I've not read your whole topic - I was just scanning quick and saw "scale."

This is the scale we used [and where we purchased it from]:
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-kd8000.aspx

Not sure how much your Duke weighs but I was also able to weigh H on it with a light weight cardboard filing box.

This one
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-wr-12k.aspx
[though 3 times the prices] will go up to 12Kg if being able to weigh Kitty and food on the same scale appeals to you and the KD-8000 will not do it for you.

If the weight of your kitty is important then I suggest weighing morning and night at least a couple times a week. This makes trending more valid and you are able to account for the natural swings/variation.

I suggest weighing everything in grams [even Kitty].

If you cook or do much USPS, these great for both too.

I did find a strong relationship between food in and insulin need. But not so much immediately - more of a 12-36hr lag.
 
Before we RAISE the dose can we be clear....is duke's amps and pmps ALWAYS before eatting? I know there was the tendency to feed first then test. Hope you undestand bone daddy that you cannot shoot based on the # you get that way. even a treat can raise the bg's 30-50 points.

P.S. Hi Gator...so great to see you!
 
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