Dude has now decided he doesn't like the litterbox

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occhi

occhi

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Hi everyone,

Quick question about Dude urinating in the wrong places. Very recently he has decided that the bathroom rugs are better for going to the bathroom than the litterbox is. Its odd because both of the rugs he's used so far are seriously right next to the litterbox so I'm a bit confused about why he has chosen them. We are still in the process of trying to regulate his BG and we haven't really been able to get him anywhere near where I'd like him to be. We are going to raise his dosage from 3 to 4BU tomorrow night depending on what his testing results are tonight and tomorrow morning. He acts like he feels perfectly fine. He played all night long last night with his catnip ball (I mean aaaaaaall night) and he has decided in the last couple of weeks that he actually likes food so we're getting a couple of cans of wet food a day into him now (one in the morning and one at night). He's putting weight on nicely and I can tell that he feels really good these days. So what could be the reason for the suddenly strange choice of bathroom?

Thanks!

Temujin

PS i need to update my spreadsheet with the numbers from the last few days but they really aren't that different from what is here now.
 
Sudden changes in bathroom habits = vet visit

- bladder stones hurt, so may be avoiding litterbox 'cause it hurts to go
- arthritis - ditto
- something startled him in the box
- he wants one box to pee, one box to pooh.
 
Hi!

We just took him to the Vet yesterday and he's been doing this for about a week. I forgot to talk to the Vet about it but he gave Dude a vvvveeeeeeery thorough exam as it is his yearly and he's my sugar baby. If he was acting sick I'd agree, I think he's just mad about something maybe. I'm interested in the one box to pee and one box to poo theory. Does that happen much? He's been fine using the same box for almost 8 years so it's a little odd, but he is a really odd cat to begin with I guess so maybe this is just in keeping with the rest of his mood. Any ideas about how I can get him to change his mind?

Tmjn
 
re: vet exam - the vet only finds what he is looking for, and he isn't looking if he wasn't told. Some of the clues are very, very subtle and easily missed.

There are litter additives to encourage use - sorry, can't remember the name. Think I saw some at a Columbus, OH PetSmart.

Vets recommend 1 box per cat in the household ... PLUS 1 more.

And of course, the proverbial:
When was the last time the box was throughly scoured out with a very mild cleanser and filled with fresh litter?
Have there been any changes in litter?
Has the box been moved?
Is there more traffic around the box now?
Did he get startled at the box?
Have you thoroughly cleaned the soiled objects with a product like Nature's Miracle? KOE (http://www.thornell.com)?
- it can take repeated treatments to fully eliminate odor which can trigger repeat events.
Have you protected against further soiling by putting down plastic or tarps?
 
Hi again :)

Now that is exactly what I am looking for, a list of things I need to do that I may not have thought of along with cleaning solutions. Here are the answers to your questions:

When was the last time the box was throughly scoured out with a very mild cleanser and filled with fresh litter? I don't think we've ever taken a cleaner to it, we will give that a try.
Have there been any changes in litter? no changes to the litter
Has the box been moved? the box has not been moved
Is there more traffic around the box now? no more traffic than previous
Did he get startled at the box? this i do not know, its totally possible
Have you thoroughly cleaned the soiled objects with a product like Nature's Miracle? KOE (http://www.thornell.com)? we used something on one spot (we only just discovered the second spot) but we didn't really do a very thorough job, I will look at what we used when we get home from work and see what it's called
- it can take repeated treatments to fully eliminate odor which can trigger repeat events.
Have you protected against further soiling by putting down plastic or tarps? we did put a training pad down that we had still from when our dog was a puppy and he peed on it as well.

We thought if we moved the rug out of the room completely that would help but he just moved to a different rug. We've moved the second rug out (there is a third in there) but I would almost rather he use the rugs than my carpet ya know? I mean at least I can throw those in the washer.

Thanks so much for your help!

tmjn
 
Ah, scatter rugs.......some cats just love them to pee on. Also, because there was rug outside his litter box he connects rug with peeing. Try pulling up all the rugs and maybe add a box. Baby(GA) wanted one extra also.......one for pee, one for poop, and she told me by pooping outside the box. If the rug has rubber backing on it sometimes the odor can change with washings and attract them. There is also Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract you add to clumping litter.......maybe try some of that.
 
I will try all of those things as well Hope and babyGA :) Thanks to you and BJM both sooooo much!
 
while this isn't an answer to your question, you may want to purchase a box of puppy training pads and put them in the area where he is peeing. This will save on laundry and floor washing at a minimum.

My non diabetic Sydney, started peeing and pooping in my bed. After I finally removed her stairs so she couldn't come to bed, she moved into my office and started peeing there. She now spends a lot of her time on my laptop (it's warm) and while she will use the litter box and stopped peeing on the sofa in the office, she also will pee and poop where she sleeps. Training pads have become a life saver.

I took her to the vet and she does have very severe arthritis which didn't help matters and mild hyper-T. As I am now treating her for both, the peeing on furniture stopped and she will use the box in the room as well her the pads (where she also sleeps). I've just learned to live with this.

Now I'm not saying you have to in your case, but it sounds to me as if something else is going on physically that needs to be more thoroughly examined.

Maui, has had pooping problems and doesn't also make it or choose to poop in the boxes. Like your cat, she uses the throw rugs and towels in her bathroom. But I know she isn't happy when she has these accidents because she tries to bury it and folds over the rug or towel so it is hidden from sight and smell.

I've just learned to live with it and wash the towels a lot, with bleach.
 
And ... the search function in the upper right of the page may bring up lots lof links on inaapropriate elimination of various sorts

Like this one There's a long list of things which may be tried on that post.

Note that you always should rule out a physical problem before you assume it is behavioral or you may actually stress the cat further and make the problems worse.
 
Hello Hillary & Maui,

Thank you for the encouragement. We do have some puppy pads and Dude will use them since they are in the new spot he apparently likes.

@BJM, I did try doing a search on the boards for that but there were more posts about frequent urination (makes sense since sugar cats pee alot) than anything else and I didn't really want to spend my day going through all of them. I will absolutely read the one you linked to, and thank you again!

tmjn
 
BJM said:
re: vet exam - the vet only finds what he is looking for, and he isn't looking if he wasn't told. Some of the clues are very, very subtle and easily missed.
Click to expand...

VERY true! We can't be expected to find every abnormality in a patient with just a basic exam. We need to rely on detailed information from the owner since our patients can't speak for themselves.

Please see my Litter Box From the Cat's Viewpoint webpage at catinfo.org linked below.

Are you using UNccented clumping litter?

How often are you scooping the box?
 
Hello Lisa,

I will go read your page as soon as I get home from work, thank you so much for providing it to me.

I have no idea what kind of litter we are using to be perfectly honest, but I believe its non scented clumping, clumping for sure. Sorry, I don't clean the box myself and I'm not very observant sometimes but I can look and let you know. We don't scoop the box enough I DO know that, again though its not me that cleans it. If I did it would get done every time one of the cats used it. The thing is we've had this setup for over 7 years and its only the last month that Dude has decided its not good enough. I am trying to gently persuade the cat box cleaner (aka my husband) to do it more often, hopefully that will help but I kept reading that once a cat goes outside the box the area gets marked and he'll go there all the time etc etc so was really looking for some advice on how to get him back into the box. I will try all the great advice given so far, including what I read in the link BJM gave and the one you have given.

Thanks again!

tmjn
 
I have one more thing to add. How high is the litter box side and how long are the cat's legs?

I ask this question because Shadoe has very seldom peed in the box, but always just outside the box. I have been laying newspaper and pee pads for her for almost 2yrs.

She was fine until her dx; she suddenly started peeing out of the box, on rugs and other places, so a vet visit found diabetes. As she became regulated, she began to pee by the boxes, never in them or rarely in them.

Now it bothered me that she always did all bowel movements in the box, so I started to put her in the box at certain times, like first thing in the morning, and found that while she acted indignant, she DID pee in the box right away.
So then it dawned on me if she may be waiting to the point where her bladder was full and it bothered her to rub her belly on the edge of the box getting in.

I turned over a plastic drawer that was half the height of the litter box side to see if she would like a step up to make getting in easier. It worked. She now uses the step all the time and no longer pees outside the box.

What an idiot; it took me only 2 yrs to figure it out but it makes perfect sense now. She has short legs and getting in the box must bother her with a full bladder.

ETA:
As I am home all day, I literally stock the cats and am standing close by with scoop in hand.... it's the only way I can tell who is using the box and when. Keeping the box clean is most important; I do believe cats appreciate it as cats seem to be quite fastidious beings.
 
occhi said:
Hello Lisa,

I will go read your page as soon as I get home from work, thank you so much for providing it to me.
Click to expand...

Please have your husband read it also...or whoever is supposed to be providing a *sanitary* and *VERY inviting* (read: VERY clean and proper substrate) litter box for the cat.

We don't scoop the box enough I DO know that
Click to expand...
,

Then that really needs to change - to be fair to your cat. I pull out all the stops to keep a spotless litter box for my cats because what people call "inappropriate elimination"...which is NOT inappropriate if the cat is not provided with a sanitary boxy....will ruin a home in a heartbeat.

It honestly amazes me that cats use boxes that are as dirty as many people allow them to get. This got to be a very hot button of mine after spending 15 years in rescue work and seeing cats abused, thrown outside, dumped at shelters, etc., because they finally "had had it" with using a dirty litter box and started going elsewhere.

Sometimes cats step in their waste one day and are so turned off by the filthy box that they just do what a smart cat *should* do and go elsewhere. They should not have to ever navigate around their own 'land mines' in a litter box.

Ask the cleaner in the household to not flush their own toilet for few days...take off their shoes and sock and then walk around in it but...first...figure out how to escalate their smell acuity to the level of a cat's VERY sensitive nose....and then see if they understand the need for keeping a very clean litter box.

again though its not me that cleans it. If I did it would get done every time one of the cats used it.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why you can't scoop the box also? Team effort!!! :-D

The thing is we've had this setup for over 7 years and its only the last month that Dude has decided its not good enough.
Click to expand...

I understand but, again, sometimes cats just get fed up with being asked to use a dirty box - especially if they have stepped in something that has upset them.

I am trying to gently persuade the cat box cleaner (aka my husband) to do it more often
Click to expand...
,

Why not double team the effort?

It takes 2 seconds to scoop a litter box and I can't imagine why anyone in the home would walk by the box and not simply bend down and scoop it. Team efforts are always a good thing! :-D

hopefully that will help but I kept reading that once a cat goes outside the box the area gets marked and he'll go there all the time etc etc so was really looking for some advice on how to get him back into the box.
Click to expand...

Proper cleaning of the area (lots of products...I like Anti-Icky-Poo) and Cat Attract as discussed on my webpage.
 
Well Hello!

I sure do appreciate all your thoughts, and I tried all night to come up with a good way to respond to this but I really couldn't think of anything. I have muscular dystrophy and I am in a wheelchair. I can't even comb my own hair let alone clean the litterbox. I prefer NOT to announce that everytime I come with a question but so far everytime I say I can't help with this or that, the inevitable question is 'well why the heck not?!' I know no one here knows me so why would you know that. I just think if someone says they can't do something, take into consideration the fact that they may not be telling a story just to get out of doing what some people consider to be a chore.

With that said, this is 100% a team effort, Lisa. I ask questions we don't know the answers to, I do the research that needs to be done, I try to come up with ways to make it easy for everybody INCLUDING my children (4 cats and a dog). Please don't assume that I have no interest in 'helping' because I do.

I did take your advice and purchased some Dr Elseys and that has worked like a charm so I thank you for your assistance.

Have a great week!

tmjn
 
Hi again!

I meant to reply to Gayle Shadoe & Oliver as well and totally forgot. Dude's legs are suuuuuuper long but I will take a look at how he gets in and out of the box. You just never know, he could absoutely be rubbing on it too. Very good catch!

Have a good day!
 
I understand about physical limitations - every time I turn around, something breaks. I have a arthritis, and at least 7 other chronic conditions - doing lots of physical maneuvers results in pain, either immediately, or the for the next few days.

Hang in there.

((hugs))
 
Hi again BJM,

Thank you so much for your understanding. It is very much appreciated. Don't you just love gravity? :) It is currently my mortal enemy :)

tmjn
 
occhi said:
Hi again!

I meant to reply to Gayle Shadoe & Oliver as well and totally forgot. Dude's legs are suuuuuuper long but I will take a look at how he gets in and out of the box. You just never know, he could absoutely be rubbing on it too. Very good catch!

Have a good day!
Click to expand...

hey it's worth a try.... I do feel like an idiot that it took me so long to think of it, but there you have it..... after 2yrs of urine just outside the box, she is now using the box all the time!

I wanted to mention that I got a heavy duty long handled litter scoop... it cost a bit more, but I needed it as I got a litter box that is 35inch long and it's not easy to reach the far side....and naturally, somebody has decided to use the far side. The long handle is very helpful for reaching.

Best of luck sorting out the problem
 
Hi Everyone,

Quick update and then I will let this thread die.

@Lisa, after watching your amazing video I think we finally have a system that will work for everybody! The bucket idea next to the litter so we can clean quickly and move on is awesome. So far, the litter box is cleaner than it has ever been so I wanted to thank you one last time for providing that.

All Hail the Bucket!

tmjn
 
Hello Hilary and Maui,

Yep he hasn't gone outside of the litterbox for about a week now. So far, so good :)

tmjn
 
that is really good news. if it happens again, it is possible that a vet visit may be necessary as something else could be going on from a physical aspect.
 
occhi said:
@Lisa, after watching your amazing video I think we finally have a system that will work for everybody! The bucket idea next to the litter so we can clean quickly and move on is awesome. So far, the litter box is cleaner than it has ever been so I wanted to thank you one last time for providing that.

All Hail the Bucket!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update and the great news! Nuthin' better than getting a cat back to his proper bathroom. :-D

Also.... gotta love plastic buckets. :-D
 
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