Drinking and going to the bathroom

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jamies

jamies

Member Since 2016
Today was not a good day.
My daughter came home and Willy had diarrhea all over him. All over her bed and the carpet. I don't know if he just went or didn't make it to the bathroom it never happened before.

He ate fine and I gave him his shot I think because I had to clean the whole carpet and when I came back down to give him something to eat before I went to bed, he drank a whole bowl of water and urinated a lot.

I did not test him tonight. It took my two hours to clean everything and it's
Still there.

is it abnormal for him to be drinking this much? I know it could take a while to regulate and it is only two weeks but it makes me feel like I'm not doing something right.
 
Hard to know what's going on. You said he ate fine. Was he acting normal as well except for the drinking and urinating? The excessive drinking and urinating are typical signs of an unregulated diabetic cat. As for the diarrhea, it might be have been associated with a hypo episode. They can lose control of their bladder and bowels along with other symptoms. The only way to know is by testing blood glucose. It could also possibly be an odd reaction to being on insulin.

It's a rare cat that would be anywhere near regulation after only two weeks. You've just begun and had a rough start with Willy being ill recently. Are you still giving 2 units of insulin twice a day? How often have you been able to test his BG? If you would consider posting those numbers here we could give you more advice. The whole point behind testing BG before each shot is to be sure the dose isn't too high and we advocate setting up the spreadsheet you see here because it allows other experienced people to see your data. They can then help you with advice on dosing or tell you what they think is going on.
 
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you're having with Willy. I would at least call your vet and let him know what has happened. I know when I post later at night a lot of people are in bed already. I'm sure you will hear from other members soon. I know you must be very frustrated right now.:banghead: sending hugs :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
It is impossible for me to test him during the day except on weekends.

I feed him when I get home from work so I'm not sure how I'm going manage this

If he was hypo I guess I would have no way of knowing then:(

I attach a spreadsheet?
 
jamies said:
It is impossible for me to test him during the day except on weekends.
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I know that it's impossible to test through the day when you have to go to work. Our suggested way of monitoring is to do a BG test just before you feed then give give his shot a short while after. You need to delay shooting a little after eating when you use Vetsulin because they need food on board before this faster acting insulin kicks in. So the routine would be: test/feed/short delay/give insulin.
If you could do one more test before you go to bed then you'd have some extra data on how he reacts to the insulin.
jamies said:
I feed him when I get home from work so I'm not sure how I'm going manage this
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The routine I described above is repeated. When you get home, get yourself calm and collected, test his BG, then feed him, wait a short while, then give him his shot. Aim to get a late evening test in.
jamies said:
If he was hypo I guess I would have no way of knowing then
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Unfortunately, unless you start keeping track of BG numbers on some sort of schedule and always test before feeding and injecting you're essentially in the dark about how his system is handling the insulin dose you're giving him. I know you're just getting used to treating Willy and feel a lot of worry and anxiety about testing blood glucose and injecting insulin. I promise that it gets MUCH easier over time. Try to spend more time when you can in your treatment spot with him, petting, scratching, handling his ears, talking to him, giving low carb treats but not doing any procedure. It will get both of you used to it. In the beginning give yourself extra time before doing the ear pricking so you don't feel nervous and rushed. You need to develop confidence doing this for Willy's sake.
jamies said:
I attach a spreadsheet
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There's a lot of information on the main page about the spreadsheet we use here and how to set it up. There are techies on the forum (@Marje and Gracie ) who will help if you need it. Here's one of the SS links:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
You have a ton of helpers and cheerleaders here to help and encourage you as you treat Willy. Your worry and nerves will subside a whole lot once you tackle the testing and tracking of his numbers. You'll feel more in control and your confidence will increase by leaps and bounds. Every one of us here was similarly blindsided when our kitty was diagnosed. :bighug:
 
Ok thank you
I got the reli on meter from Walmart.
Is there a difference with the lancets because jk not sure I got that part right.
 
jamies said:
Ok thank you
I got the reli on meter from Walmart.
Is there a difference with the lancets because jk not sure I got that part right.
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You can use any lancet you like. They don't have to be the same brand as your meter. Many of us just freehand the poke with the lancet because we can see more easily how it's going into the ear. You can freehand by holding the little lancet cartridge itself or you can put it into the trigger device to have something larger to hold onto. Some cats don't like the sound of the spring mechanism so freehanding works better for them.

I'm so glad you're going to undertake BG testing. You can do this and we will help you every step of the way. :)
 
jamies said:
Ok thank you
I got the reli on meter from Walmart.
Is there a difference with the lancets because jk not sure I got that part right.
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The lancets differ in size so the 28g are the largest and 31g are smaller. Most new members start with the 28g until they are reliably getting a drop of blood and then they switch to a 30g or 31g. I always liked the BD lancets because I thought they were a bit sharper and I liked the ease of holding them. But it’s personal preference.

If he still has diarrhea, you might want to get some Florastor at Walmart and give him 1/2 capsule twice a day mixed in his food until the diarrhea stops. The Florastor contains Saccharomyces boulardi probiotic and is great at getting diarrhea under control. When it stops, decrease to 1/4 cap twice a day for a few days.

If you would like me to do a spreadsheet, please send me a private message by clicking on “Marje and Gracie” to the left and then “Start a Conversation”.

As far as testing goes, if you can move your schedule (e.g. maybe get up a little earlier) so you can test/feed/shoot as Kris recommends and then still have time to get a test before you leave for work, that would be helpful. Also, if it’s possible, grab a test as soon as you get home from work. A test an hour or so after he gets his nighttime shot and/or a before bed test will then give you some extra data.

Vetsulin is a harsh insulin that can drop them very suddenly into very low numbers and if you aren’t testing before you shoot, you could be shooting a dangerously low number.
 
@Marje and Gracie -

Is there any chance you might please have a look at this link to see whether it's the Florastor you've used, Marje? Lúnasa's having major GI problems and I'm struggling to feed her. I've had her on Proviable but it hasn't done much to help. (Her system is so stressed at the moment it triggered a bout of cystitis. Vet doesn't think infection was present; just treated with NSAID. Home urine test 2 days ago was OK but waiting to hear back results of lab urinalysis to confirm it was a sterile inflammatory problem.) I'd be grateful for your help in identifying the right product to try next for her.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Biocodex-u...50mg/dp/B000NB1OMO/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
@Marje and Gracie -

Is there any chance you might please have a look at this link to see whether it's the Florastor you've used, Marje? Lúnasa's having major GI problems and I'm struggling to feed her. I've had her on Proviable but it hasn't done much to help. (Her system is so stressed at the moment it triggered a bout of cystitis. Vet doesn't think infection was present; just treated with NSAID. Home urine test 2 days ago was OK but waiting to hear back results of lab urinalysis to confirm it was a sterile inflammatory problem.) I'd be grateful for your help in identifying the right product to try next for her.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Biocodex-u...50mg/dp/B000NB1OMO/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20


Mogs
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That's it. It does contain lactose. If you think lactose will be an issue for her, let me know because the same company makes several brands but Florastor is available in the US and U.K. And works great.
 
@Marje and Gracie - Thank you! :bighug:

I'm really worried about her at the moment; if you do know of a lactose-free version I'd be grateful for a link to what the pack looks like so I can see if I can get it in the UK.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
@Marje and Gracie - Thank you! :bighug:

I'm really worried about her at the moment; if you do know of a lactose-free version I'd be grateful for a link to what the pack looks like so I can see if I can get it in the UK.


Mogs
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You can try Bioglan. It’s not straight S. boulardi but should help. The dosing on it is one capsule twice a day for therapeutic and 1/2 cap twice a day for maintenance. Many vines and prayers for her.
 
@Marje and Gracie -

Thanks again for your help. I really am worried about her; her current GI issues are worse than Saoirse's ever were. I'm seriously thinking of asking the vet to put her on a course of steroids. :(


Mogs
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Marje and Gracie said:
Perhaps try budesonide first....
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I'll be sure to ask the vet about it, Marje. Today I was so desperate I resorted to giving her Hill's i/d pouches. :( Despite the results from her allergy blood tests (came back clear bar a mild sensitivity to beef) I think there's some allergy basis to her problems now; a few times lately she has been shaking her head and she had a coughing bout after eating earlier today. :(


Mogs
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jamies said:
He didn't poop today :(
Hope that doesn't become an issue.
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He might have emptied himself out during yesterday's bout of diarrhea. I always add extra (warm) water to all of Teasel's meals. You could try that with Willy to keep him well hydrated and maybe lessen the chance of constipation. There are many here who add a little pumpkin to the wet food for constipation. If you post a question about it they'll be able to tell you how much to give.
 
He still isn't eating enough. Had to cut his shot today. Couldn't get a reading. Tried for about 1/2 hour just was not working.

Slowly running out of food choices, it's embarrassing to keep returning stuff.

I'm just at a loss. It's getting harder and harder every day
 
jamies said:
He still isn't eating enough. Had to cut his shot today. Couldn't get a reading. Tried for about 1/2 hour just was not working.

Slowly running out of food choices, it's embarrassing to keep returning stuff.

I'm just at a loss. It's getting harder and harder every day
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Not sure if I understand. Did you mean you couldn't give him his insulin or you had to reduce his dose? To what dose? Did you mean you couldn't test his BG? Have you tried warming up his ear before poking for a blood sample? It can be very hard to get blood if the ear is cold. Also, their ears get easier to bleed over time because they grow more tiny blood vessels. Give it time.

As for food, what food have you tried feeding him? Sometimes you have to feed whatever they'll eat (preferably canned) until they perk up. I know your vet told you to take him off the extra meds because they were making him feel ill. The appetite stimulant cyproheptadine is one that's been mentioned by a number of people as working better than mirtazapine. Might be worth considering.

We all understand how frustrating and confusing it is, especially at the beginning when your kitty has been ill and you're still quite low down on the feline diabetes learning curve. Please don't give up hope. Post as many questions as you like about getting ears to bleed better, getting kitty to eat better, finding the courage to forge ahead - anything.
 
I reduced his dose to 1 unit this morning as he wasn't eating. Took about 45 to get even a half Can in.

Yes I read the directions. The lancets I bought I think are 28 maybe it's too small for me but it wasn't working and I was getting upset.

I have tried everything. He now won't eat his dry. I have tried every flavor of fancy feast he takes a bite and walks away. I have tried tiki cat won't even touch it. Soulitic he used to eat doesn't want it, natural balance, natures variety

Pretty much everything except his old ff medleys

I gave him anti nausea meds this morning. Guess its not helping. I am assuming he ate the last year or so from having pred.

I cannot spend an hour in the morning trying to get him to eat. I was late almost every day last week. If he doesn't eat then I don't really know what else to do.
 
jamies said:
The lancets I bought I think are 28
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Those are a good size. I think you'll have to warm his ear more. It can be very frustrating at first but staying calm is key.
jamies said:
Pretty much everything except his old ff medleys
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If that's what you think he might still eat, so be it. Feed him that.
jamies said:
I gave him anti nausea meds this morning.
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Antinausea meds are often combined with an appetite stimulant to get the best effect. Yes, steroids will enhance their appetite but right now he's probably not feeling well enough to have a good one. Poor diabetes control makes them feel ill.
jamies said:
I cannot spend an hour in the morning trying to get him to eat
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Is he your only cat? Do you leave food out for him around the clock? The only time you want them to be without food is for 2 hours before a blood glucose test.

You're still new at treating Willy's diabetes and he's still not feeling well. All of this is overwhelming and you don't have a routine yet that works well for you. Please don't give up.
 
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I do have another cat and oddly she never ever touched his food until he came home from the hospital. I never had to worry.

They don't even eat the same thing.
 
jamies said:
I do have another cat and oddly she never ever touched his food until he came home from the hospital. I never had to worry.

They don't even eat the same thing.
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Do they both eat wet food? Does he eat hers when he feels well? If it's wet food for both of them and if free feeding works better then do that.

Is it Cerenia he's getting for nausea? I think you commented on another thread that Cerenia made him fee ill.
 
Re home testing, I've never been great at it. just ask Angel, his poor ears are like a dartboard. I rarely get blood first go, however warm his ears are. I've become resigned to the fact that it's just something he and I are going to have to put up with, I wish I was more efficient. I feel so bad when I'm stabbing away at him but he treats it like a mild inconvenience and it doesn't seem to stress him at all. I said the other day look how far you've come and be proud of yourself, now I've noticed you're helping and advising other new people, if you're not proud of yourself I'm proud of youX
 
he does not eat her food.

I left food out all day he would Take a bite and make away.

I have him zofran not cerenia. I will not use that.
 
Yes way over a year.

And he would stop eating a certain food but would always eat another. So picky yes, not eating no he would always eat
 
jamies said:
Yes way over a year.

And he would stop eating a certain food but would always eat another. So picky yes, not eating no he would always eat
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I suspect his lack of appetite is directly related to unregulated diabetes and having been ill recently. He needs to be nudged into eating using meds as you are (with maybe an appetite stimulant added) and tempting him with anything he'll eat.

Not simple I know but what he needs is food and regular doses of the right amount of insulin. BG testing is essential in that second part.
 
What does Willow weigh and what dose of ondansetron are you giving?

jamies said:
I gave him anti nausea meds this morning. Guess its not helping. I am assuming he ate the last year or so from having pred.
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I would suggest you contact the vet on Monday morning and ask about whether going back on the steroids and managing the insulin around them would be better. Willow has to be able to eat.

ETA - or does the heart issue rule out the steroids?

I really feel for you, Jamie.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Mogs
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He was on the pred and does have heart issues.
They wanted to stop it because he started getting fluid build up and then he got diabetes

I have him mirtazapine last night. He still isn't eating correctly.
I bdidnt question if it was working, I didn't like how he acted so frantic on it but obviously there are some other issues going on that he is not responding well to anything. And really at this point I don't know what other options I have
 
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