Doubling Morning Dose Scares Me!!

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Blamethecats and Hannah

Blamethecats and Hannah

Member Since 2014
This concern was mentioned in a post I made yesterday, but it is buried somewhat deep in that post, and I am hoping this new post will make it more visible. I apologize for the repetition.

On her current dose, Hannah's numbers have been way too high for way too long -- please reference her spreadsheet. She is currently on 0.01 ml, twice a day. Yesterday, talked with her vet and he wants to increase her morning dose to 0.02 ml and leave her evening dose at 0.01 ml. That morning increase scares me a bit, as it is doubled, so hope and pray it will be okay. What do you all think?? Am not sure I want to go for that much of an increase but don't know if I can "eyeball" a smaller increase. Our syringes have only 1 unit marks. I just know she can't successfully go on with such high numbers and we have to do something else. The current plan isn't working. I trust and appreciate the advice given on this forum, as know so many of you have been where we are. Waiting to hear from you. confused_cat
 
I am confused. Yo say you are using ProZinc insulin with U100 syringe and giving 0.01 ml. That is 1 unit of a U100 insulin. But Prozinc is a U40 insulin and 0.01 ml (1 unit in a U100 syringe) is 0.4 units of a U40 insulin.
I would only increase by no more than 1/2 of present dose. That is to 1 1/2 unit markings on a U100 syringe.

Also please specify the units of insulin your are using, not the volume in your signature and on your SS.
 
Hi,

I am also confused about the dose you are giving. Are you giving one unit of U40 Prozinc, but in a U100 syringe? (So, in a U100 syringe that would look like 2.5 units (but would still of course be one unit of Prozinc)). Are you using the U40 to U100 conversion chart?

We usually suggest that increases are made in half unit, or .25 unit increases (and sometimes less than that), but only very rarely in whole units.

I agree with Larry that you could possibly increase your dose by 50% (or even 25% and then increase more if you need to)- as long as you can be around to monitor the effect of the increased dose.

Edited to add: FAO anyone reading this thread,
here is the previous thread where dose increase is mentioned:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=122627&p=1274618#p1274584

My understanding from reading the above thread (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that BlameTheCats is using U100 syringes with full unit (not half unit) markings, and measuring insulin to the first line in the syringe.
If so, then maybe smaller doses can be achieved by the 'drop method'?
Or by using half-unit U100's to make measuring easier?

I've edited this post 3 times now I think. Sorry if I've confused anyone. I think I've even managed to confuse myself. :lol:

Eliz
 
I agree with Eliz and Larry! Basically, we need to know what dose you are giving in units since that's all we deal with here. Are you saying one unit? Are you using the conversion chart for u 100 needles or just telling us the amount you are using on those needles without the conversion chart?

Don't worry we can help! Just need some info. :-D
 
I am glad to see that tohers are confused too. :-D I raised this question yesterday,

Until we figure out your syringe and actual dose, the basic advice would be NOT to double a dose. I think it could definitely be increased, but by .5 units at most. And then careful monitoring. We don't like jumping that far - because you might skip over an ideal dose, it might lower the numbers more than you want, and it is just not necessary to take that risk. If, in 3 cycles, you don't see a change with the half unit increase, then raise again.

Please describe your syringe, what your bottle says (U40 or U100 insulin) and the markings on the syringe.
 
Thanks, all, for trying to figure this out. I am so confused about this entire thing and don't know at this point if I can even explain it, but will try, for sure. We previously used U40 syringes with the ProZinc, filled to the first line. That, I assume, was 1 unit? That was the prescription given by Hannah's vet. We shot once a day. Then she had 2 episodes of hypo, very low numbers, one resulting in a trip to the ER on a Saturday afternoon. The following Monday, her vet changed her over to the U100 syringes, filled to the first line, twice per day. That is where we are, currently. I am only following what has been advised by the vet. I don't understand the conversion but certainly hope he has done the proper one for us. Our current syringes are Terumo U100 and have 1 unit marks, no 1/2 unit marks. The bottle of ProZinc says 40 units per mL. So it looks like I am not giving one unit of ProZinc after all, as Elizabeth and Bertie say that would look like 2.5 units in our syringes, and it does not. They also have it right when they say we are "using U100 syringes with full unit (not half unit) markings, and measuring insulin to the first line in the syringe." Right on, Elizabeth and Bertie! Thank you for understanding! You are very good at wading through my confusion! And if you did confuse anyone, you didn't confuse me! What is the drop method? Could someone please, again, direct me to the U40 to U100 conversion chart. I have got to try to figure this out. I have a lot of trouble with this type of thing. It is all so new and so very scary!
 
Glad you found the chart. So, it looks like you are actually giving .4 units of ProZinc and the vet wants you to increase to .8. Is that how you see it? It looks like she had one low pmps early on, but has had yellow nadirs and higher preshots since then?

If so, I do think your vet's advice is reasonable. There is a huge difference between moving from one unit to two units (which is what I thought it was at first) and from .4 to .8. I think an increase to .8 is a good idea. If you are worried, test her around +2 to see where the cycle is headed and at +6 or so to see how low she went. If you see a number in the 50 range, ask for help in bringing her up. I don't think that low is likely, but with cats, you never know.
 
Sue, thanks for your opinion on this. Glad I was finally able to find and understand the conversion chart. That certainly does clear things up for all of us, especially me. Currently, Hannah is taking a nice nap, totally clueless about conversion charts and all that her mommy is experiencing. She just trusts me to do what is best for her and I trust the good advice given here. Hugs to all. :YMHUG:
 
You're doing fine! It takes time to get used to this sugar dance and our kitties love to throw curve balls. It's a steep learning curve but you'll get it!
 
The difference between a U-100 and a U-40 insulin is the concentration of units per mL.
U-100 has 100 units per mL.
U-40 has 40 units per mL.

When you use a U-100 syringe for a U-40 insulin, you just multiply the value on the syringe by 0.4 (ie, you get 40% of that value in U-40 insulin).
U-100
Tick
Mark * 0.4 = U-40 dose
0.5 * 0.4 = 0.2
1.0 * 0.4 = 0.4
1.5 * 0.4 = 0.6
2.0 * 0.4 = 0.8
2.5 * 0.4 = 1.0
3.0 * 0.4 = 1.2
Etc
 
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