Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - 1/4 - 1/30

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Laura and Harley (GA)

Laura and Harley (GA)

Member Since 2011
The boys got into the dry food overnight. I must have really slept soundly because I didn't even hear them get to the top shelf of the cupboard and pull down the bag of Royal Canin Hypoallergenic dry. It's at least 24 or 36% carb. (too tired to look it up)

And here I was wondering why they didn't come running for food the second I got up. :shock: Harley was lying in the frontroom and he purred, looking awfully pleased with himself. Hadley was snoozing in my den and jumped up to chirp guiltily when he saw me. Molly and Princess were crunching food when I found them and the corpus delicti - now I have to test Molly too. ohmygod_smile

Even with 485 AMPS I held the 1u. I pitched the bag of RC dry. I just hope it doesn't upset anyone's tummy.

Another day in the life...
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485 :(

Oh gosh... I, too, hope it doesn't upset their tummies.

Reminds me of my own getting into the dinner rolls I had up on a shelf. I woke up to find Beau tearing in them on the floor. It bumped him out of remission for about 9 days...

I hope Hadley's BG comes down by tonight!
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485 :(

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
Oh gosh... I, too, hope it doesn't upset their tummies.
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Alas, there was smelly stool in the litterbox when I stopped by at +6 to test & feed. Just hope nobody vomits.

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
Reminds me of my own getting into the dinner rolls I had up on a shelf. I woke up to find Beau tearing in them on the floor. It bumped him out of remission for about 9 days...
Click to expand...

I'll bet that was a sight. So Beau is a Bread Boy too. I wonder how he got up there?

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
I hope Hadley's BG comes down by tonight!
Click to expand...

Hadley was 397 at +6, Harley was 370, and thank goodness, Molly was 49. Phew!
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485 :(

Laura and Harley said:
So Beau is a Bread Boy too. I wonder how he got up there?
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LOL! He didn't. It was either Leanne or Ariel, who were about 10 mos at the time. I very much suspect Leanne as she is a bread fiend. I can NOT leave ANY bread out. It has to go in the micro or a cupboard.

Big sigh of relief for Molly there! Whew is right. I would suggest checking her again tomorrow though (knock wood/anti jinx).

Beau was in the 300s a few hours later, but brought himself down to the low 100s be the evening (his normal off insulin is around 80-100). He just couldn't hold onto those lows. 200s the next day, then 100s, then upper 100s and I finally started insulin again after two tests in the mid 200s on days 4/5. He only needed a tiny assist - .05u as needed when he was above about 130. I should have started insulin the next day when he was sitting in the 200s... live and learn.
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395 :(

Ahhh, 10 month old kittens, I remember those days very fondly - but am glad they are over now! I just don't have the energy to keep up. My mother's Wolfie is just like Leanne, he'll eat anything she leaves out on the counter including doughnuts, bread, rolls, whatever - packaging and all. And he's going strong at 16 going on 17. I've gotta find and post up a pic. he looks just like a shorthair version of Gandalf (GA).

Hadley's PMPS=395 and +4=285 - starting to come down. It was soooo hard to sit on my hands today and not shoot more. Usually I"m not tempted by the dark side of my brain, but today I sorely was. Please keep those paws crossed Hadley continues to come down overnight. I'm going to check Molly tomorrow just to make sure all's still well. Her pancreas must be made of steel to withstand that carb. load. :lol:
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395 :(

One thing to keep in mind is that if Beau needed a smidge of insulin for several days after his bread-fest, then maybe Hadley needs a smidge of an increase for a few days. You know where the carbs came from and that they will not reoccur so giving an increased dose, say tomorrow am, if he is still running higher than normal - but just the tiniest amount, .05u if you can do that, .1u at the most. And just for the one or two shots. My thinking is that the carb load seriously depleted his shed, so he may need a "booster" to get back on track. He will eventually, but this might get him their faster.
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395 :(

Rats, I shot this morning before reading your post Sheila. Hadley's AMPS was 300 (better), Molly was 60 (phew!) and Harley is still holding at 401.

I'll wait to see what Hadley's PMPS is before deciding about giving a tiny bit more tonight. And here I was trying to be so good about not reacting to PS's! Where's that bang head against wall emoticon when I need it?

Harley's got me really confused though , he just won't come down off the reds and I'm wondering if his issue is too much insulin instead of not enough...got to mull his SS over.
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395 :(

Hmmm... that is a difficult SS to get a handle on. At first glance I thought, yep, he did much better on .5u, but then scrolling up further I see he did just as well on more and that you had slowly lowered his dose and the numbers held - until they didn't any more and you have been raising slowly since then. You are right that he may be rebounding with the recent 300s and 400s BEFORE the dry food yesterday am. But he isn't eating well is he? And has some other issues going on? Maybe he just needs more insulin all of a sudden from not feeling well, having pain, or an infection?
 
Re: 1/4 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395 :(

Seeing some progress - Hadley's +6 was 107 and Harley's was 199. :mrgreen: I'm going to hold Hadley's 1u dose. As for Harley...

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
Hmmm... that is a difficult SS to get a handle on. At first glance I thought, yep, he did much better on .5u, but then scrolling up further I see he did just as well on more and that you had slowly lowered his dose and the numbers held - until they didn't any more and you have been raising slowly since then. You are right that he may be rebounding with the recent 300s and 400s BEFORE the dry food yesterday am. But he isn't eating well is he? And has some other issues going on? Maybe he just needs more insulin all of a sudden from not feeling well, having pain, or an infection?
Click to expand...

...you're right, Sheila, his is a challenging SS mostly because intermingled with the insulin dosing are different combinations of food and prednisolone doses as I've been working on trying to regulate his IBD, pancreatitis and motility. I haven't posted for him in a long time mostly because I didn't want to "inflict" the interpretation of his SS on anyone besides me. In his case, interpreting the numbers in a vacuum without seeing the whole cat do not give the full cat picture. For example, he did very well on 0.5u in September but at that time I was reducing his pred. dose (vet's orders) and his appetite was falling off along with his weight. So what looked good on paper did not translate to a happy, healthy cat in real life. In October I had to up the pred. and change his food (including giving some dry) in order to keep him eating and put weight back on. That meant upping the insulin to compensate and we all know that you can't really 100% compensate for dry food with increased insulin.

I agree that his most recent dose was too high because he was swinging between 300 pre-shots and nadirs in the 80s which he hates. I think he was the dry food bandit in protest and I just didn't spot the problem early enough to reduce his dose in time to prevent it - too focused on Hadley's post-dental issues. I'm in awe of the super human beans who can manage multiple FD's.

Another lesson learned...
 
Re: 1/4-5 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395, AMPS 300

Hi Laura,

I haven't looked at Harley's spreadsheet close enough to know if this might help, but with the increased prednisolone dose, you might consider TID dosing if you can manage it. I did it for Gandalf while he was on pred and it worked very well for him, but again my work schedule was a problem and he would still have 400s. If I could have maintained solid 8/8/8, he would have done very well, so it's a trick I think anyone who needs to use pred for their diabetic should know about. You would break his total daily shot in to 3s. So if dose is 1.5U that's .5U each time. You might also consider that to combat the extra carb intake.

Just a thought. Glad Hadley survived the midnight excursion in to dry!
 
Re: 1/4-5 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395, AMPS 300

Those are much better numbers for both of them.

You have a much tougher time than I do with your multiple FDs! With one in remission and one basically giving me the same numbers all the time, it really is like having only one FD. Beau does have other health issues that he gets meds from twice a day, but not like poor Harley.

I think Vicky's suggestion about tid dosing to deal with the pred is a good one. It might also help with the dry food. You are right that you have to feed what he will eat and insulin always gets adjusted for all the other issues anyway. Please don't not post about him. We want to know how he is doing. (hey, it's really late and a double negative just makes sense right now... :roll: )
 
Re: 1/4-5 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395, AMPS 300

Just a quick update now 'cuz I'm at work:

Hadley PMPS, 398, Shot 1u
+5=169

Looks like he's coming down mid-cycle, but duration just isn't there yet.

AMPS=397, Shot 1.1u

-------------------------------

Harley PMPS=408, Shot 1u
+4=478 :shock:

Harley was barely eating yesterday even with the appy stim. so I gave him an extra dose of fluids, lactulose and a shot of buprenex last night on suspicion that he was constipated from the R/C dry food. His abdomen felt like he'd swallowed a banana. He doesn't strain or cry in the LB, just jumps in and then jumps out again and then doesn't want to eat much. If I'm not watching or keeping track of his stools, it's so easy to let days go by and not know that he hasn't gone. He's one tough kitty having endured a lot of pain in his life (burns, pancreatitis, constipation, etc.) This morning there was a 6" BM in the litterbox. The bupe killed the pain enough for him to pass it.

AMPS=318, Shot 1u

Crossing paws for a better day. I gave him a tiny dose of bupe to kill any residual pain.
 
Re: 1/4-5 - Hadley AMPS 485, PMPS 395, AMPS 300

I'm sure Harley feels much better now. And his BG is so much lower this am. I hope that he has a better day with better numbers tonight because of it.

Now Hadley may be still rebuilding his momentum after using up all his residual insulin in his system with that carbo loading he did. His numbers are a little better so maybe he can get back to his normal in another day or so.
 
Holy Old Thread Revival

Hi everyone, I'm sorry I didn't mean to do a disappearing act on my thread but life really got in the way. A few hours after my last update I ended up at the ER. Too much stress + dehydration = migraines + vomiting + pain medication = ulcer. How's that for a 3rd grade math problem? :lol: I'm OK and was able to get home that night to take care of the cats and shoot. But I've been physically wiped for the last 2 weeks. Regaining hydration and making some lifestyle changes. Guess I didn't realize I was running on empty.

Harley and Hadley have continued pretty much the same since their dry food feast and managing their numbers is still a challenge.

I've gotten Harley over his bout of IBD-induced constipation and his numbers are at least now out of the 400s (touch wood) but still in the 300s.

Hadley keeps throwing me 400+ AM pre shots even when he's been in better numbers during the day and evening before. I do feed them at PM+4 or 5 the previous evening so they don't go ll night with no food. (My Princes kitty will vomit if she doesn't get food every 5-6 hours). Leaving food out is not possible because Hadley will inhale it the minute I set it down. I've never seen such a determined eater before!

I'd appreciate your feedback on both their SS's and dosing. After tinkering with dosing a bit I finally raised them both to 1.25u and the last 2-3 days the PS's have been coming down but the mid-cycle spot checks were higher than before. I may be off base but I take that as a good sign that the curve is flattening out and duration is improving. Not sure if this is the right interpretation or if this is a sign that dose is too high.

I revived this thread instead of creating a new one as the same issue is continuing and also I hadn't responded to some good suggestions Vicky and Sheila made. Thank you Vicky for mentioning TID dosing. That has been on my mind for some time now ever since you first mentioned in your posts that you were using it for Gandalf while he was on pred. I've been kind of saving that as a last resort option due to my work schedule and Harley's and my last experience with it. We were doing TID on ProZinc in March when he got his pancreatitis attack. At that time he wasn't on any medication except for insulin and his BGs were in the 90-180 range on a consistent basis but he only got about 5 hours coverage out of the ProZinc and his BGs would rise by +6 or 7 so I shot TID to hold him in tighter regulation. Either he was already sick with pancreatitis or the resulting strain on his pancreas by keeping his numbers constantly in the low blues and high greens made him sick. We started out great and he was actually feeling and acting better but then the second and third week he changed and started acting sick, appetite fell of and the numbers started to go wonky. That was then and this is now and I definitely wouldn't be aiming for lower numbers with him, but I'm still leery of trying again unless it's a last resort. Schedule is an issue also. I shot 8/8/8 at 4 a.m. Noon and 8 p.m. in order to make it work with my work schedule but I may not be able to do that if I try again. I might have to figure out a 10/7/7 or something else that would at least allow Harley and I some time to sleep. Then there's the issue of having to shoot 1 cat TID and the other BID. My day might look like: 4 a.m. shoot Harley, 6 a.m. shoot Hadley. Noon, shoot Harley, 6 p.m. shoot Hadley and 8 p.m. shoot Harley. I'm worried I'd be giving the wrong dose to the wrong cat especially in the morning when I'm brain dead. It'd be ideal to have both boys on the same schedule. Right now, Hadley's looking like he might need TID. :razz:
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Does Harley really still need the pred? I think his numbers are due to the pred, he gets a good drop but just isn't getting good enough duration from Lev.

I know pred takes a few doses to get built up in the system, but would a week or so break from it be worth it to see how he does? You would have to reload him on it, if he needs to go back on it, but unless you are dealing with a cancer or extreme inflammation or extreme IBD, pred does more harm than good for a diabetic. Of course that is my opinion, I am not a vet, and I'm not even sure why he's getting it, but I know what it did for Gandalf's BGs at a time when he needed very little insulin because of his cancer and it wreaks havoc on BG for sure and makes it virtually uncontrollable without TID.

If it's for chronic pancreatitis, getting the BGs under control will help with that sooner than the steroid.
Either he was already sick with pancreatitis or the resulting strain on his pancreas by keeping his numbers constantly in the low blues and high greens made him sick.
Click to expand...
Those are the values you want, normal range BGs aren't going to cause a strain on the pancreas. That's why we want to get their BGs in that range so the pancreas can heal.

Hadley just looks like he needs more insulin. He did well on 1.5U, but you may have decreased too much too fast. Look how long it took him to get going on 1.5U. That means you're not going to see much improvement on 1.25U, so I recommend going up to 1.5U again.

I also think 1.5U is a better dose because when he had those lows that made you lower his dose he wasn't eating well.

Does all that make sense?
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Seconding the idea that lower BGs will NOT cause stress on the pancreas. Beau has not had any p-titis flares since he went OTJ.(knock wood, anti jinx). I think the thing that caused his pancreatitis was the pancreas trying to cope with huge loads of carbsby producing more and more insulin (thank you [NOT] Iams Weight mangement dry food) - and the resulting glucose toxicity and insulin resistance.

Also, word of caution on stopping pred, especially in tong-term use. You need to ween them off it. You shouldn't just stop giving it. Beau was on pred for about 3 years. We tried to ween him off it at 6 mos and the p-titis came back with vengeance (I had not changed his diet at all back then). So we went back to his old dose and another 6 months later reduced it slowly by half. Eventually I started giving it less and less. Best to talk to the vet about how to ween him from it based on his dose and how long he has taken it.

So sorry to hear about the ER visit. Please do "baby" yourself and take it easier. I used to get migraines a lot, but seem to have outgrown them (I don't have the hormonal trigger at least). Have you tried any "natural" remedies like peppermint, cold/warm compresses, etc? I found peppermint to be very helpful and never went anywhere without Altoids and a tiny vial of essential oil. Eating 2-3 Altoids helped, so did peppermint tea. I have an herbal filled neck wrap that I heat up in the micro and put across my upper back/shoulders, drink peppermint tea and try and relax. Yoga also helps to loosen up shoulders and upper back, which is where I get very tight when I have a migraine. I am assuming you know what foods to avoid when you are getting a migraine? Chocolate, red wine, strawberries, cheese, nuts, etc.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
Also, word of caution on stopping pred, especially in tong-term use. You need to ween them off it. You shouldn't just stop giving it.
Click to expand...

Oh, duh. I knew that....sorry Laura.

And I forgot to mention, glad you're feeling better too. :smile:
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Thanks Ladies, as always I will ponder your thoughts. Thanks Sheila for including the info. on how to taper pred. for the benefit of any lurkers reading this thread. I learned how to taper from the Yahoo Feline Pancreatitis Group when my vet said casually "Oh you can just change from giving 5mg every day to every other day." :roll: Fortunately they educated me on how to do a proper pred. taper for an pancreatitis kitty and I in turn educated my vet...or tried to.

I raised both boys to 1.5u last night. Harley's PMPS was 271, +4=81 and AMPS=250. Very nice movement. Hadley's PMPS was 253, +4=174 and AMPS=442. cat(2)_steam Boo hiss on the bouncing.

Hadley's not feeling too good riding his BG roller coaster. When his BGs are high he's grouchy towards the other kitties and has even chased Molly or Princess out of "his" room. He's feeling a little territorial and wants Mom to him self while she's on the computer. But when he was in better numbers, he could sit next to me, Princess would be on the table next to my computer and Molly would sleep on the sofa and all was peace and harmony. C'mon Mr. Liver, cooperate please.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Thanks Vicky - me too! :lol:

Pretty good today:

Harley: +6=92, +9=258, PMPS=338
Hadley: +6=167, +9=230, PMPS=225

Shot 1.5u for both boys. I just hope Hadley doesn't return another 400+ tomorrow AM. I can handle pinks and yellows but those 400s really bug me. I've never even seen a 500, 600+ so yeah, I'm spoiled. :roll:

My office closed early because of the lovely (not) snowmageddon we're getting here right now. Depending which weather forecaster you listen to we're getting 4-8 or 5-7 inches of snow today. I'm going to make like the bears and hibernate this weekend.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

I hope the increase works for them. Glad you're feeling better!
The weather this winter has been so off. It was 60 yesterday in Denver. :cool:
Stay warm and bake some chocolate chip cookies.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Hey Marcy, please send some of that weather our way. Or how about splitting it in half and we each get the 30s.

How are you and the boys doing?
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

cat(2)_steam
Hadley AMP=463, +7=267, PMPS=317, +3=295, +5=259

:-D
Harley AMPS=281, +7=107, PMPS=275, +3=254, +5=145

:mrgreen:
Molly is holding OTJ at 55

confused_cat
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Dear Hadley, Please follow Harley's lead and come down from there!

Hey Laura, thanks for asking about the boyz. They're doing well. They touched noses the other day but Radar has gone back to hissing at Klinger. They have free reign over night - we're no longer keeping Radar in the spare bedroom....I miss having the bed to myself. :roll:
Radar is into EVERYTHING. He's also an ankle biter - ouch!

Klinger's started seeing some blue numbers, but he's up to 2.75 units. I've also noticed that the back of his legs are really sensitive and he doesn't like it if he's touched there. That area used to be one of his favorites to get a good massage. I started him on Methyl B 12 (last night) to see if that helps - he's not walking on his hocks. After the p-titis episode, I've started adding taurine to his food. All of his p's are in place. :-D

Sending you some warmer weather.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - Advice still Needed :(

Hi Marcy, Thanks for the nice weather today. :lol: It's encouraging to hear the boys are able to touch noses, that's progress! I love their pictures on FB. 2.75u seems to be agreeing with Klinger - his liver just hasn't got the memo yet.

As for my boys...today....they did it again. Their final dry food feast. Well, to be fair, I started things off by doing it again. What's it? Getting a lower than usual pre-shot for Harley and forgetting to shave the dose. (I've posted a sticky note on my fridge in case I'm ever so lucky again.) I came home from church at +6 to find the tupperware canisters of dry food on the floor and one of them spilled open. The lid must not have been sealed or the 6 foot fall from the top shelf onto concrete popped it loose.

Not a single cat greeted me at the door - they were all too full to move. I cleaned up the mess and tested Harley. Yep, 48. I fed him a little LC to tide him over until the dry kicked in. Hadley had totally pigged out, he had a @#% eating grin on his face and a bloated tummy. I'm not mad at them. I'm proud of Harley for being so resourceful but this is stopping now because I took the canisters of dry food and put them up in my attic. If I need them, I know where to get them. But this can't keep happening to them or to Molly.

So today's crappy numbers and my crappy dosing are:

Harley: AMPS=194, shot 1.5u, +6=48, +6.5=78, +8=141, PMPS=320, Shot 1.5u, +5=187
Hadley: AMPS=323, Shot 1.5u, +6=289, +8=323, PMPS=487, Shot 2u, +5=367
Molly, at the boys AM+8 she was 56, I'll test her again tonight. ETA:At the boys PM+5, she's 64 and that's after her evening LC snack. :mrgreen:

If I were a drinking kind of person, I'd be hitting the sauce about now. Instead, I think I'll watch LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring, while making Harley & Princess's pill boxes for this week.

Wishing your kitties good numbers and good surf.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

If they can get at it, they will get at it. That's what I have learned. In some other life I had cats that NEVER got on my kitchen counters. Beau is the only one of that gang left, but he has accomplices. I have to put things in cupboards or in the microwave (or fridge), especially breads. The dry food (for treats) is in a container with a screw on lid. So far that has kept them out.

Laura, I just hope your gang doesn't have upset tummies tomorrow :roll:
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Sheila, Touch wood, no tummies upset here yet. Stinky mushy poo and LOTS of water drinking and pee'ing though. I gave both boys SubQs last night. The only good thing is the dry was the Purina DM so at least it's diabetic friendly dry and coated in FortiFlora. LOL

Harley: AMPS=276, Shot a skinny 1.5u, +6=47, PMPS=184, Shot 1.3u, +4=79
Hadley AMPS: 399, Shot 1.5u, +6=317, PMPS=326, Shot 1.5u, +4=271

ETA: Zoinks! Guess I didn't skinny Harley's dose up enough this AM - he's definitely still sensitive to the insulin after yesterday.

It would be nice to have a sugar-sharing program where I could borrow from Hadley to give to Harley :idea: .
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Another day, another low for Harley...and more highs for Hadley, so I'm reducing Harley again & raising Hadley:

Harley: AMPS=324, Shot 1.30, +6=43, fed the usual LC snack, PMPS=174, Shot 1u, +5=127
Hadley: AMPS=410, Shot 1.5u, +6=348, PMPS=315, Shot 1.75u, +5=118

:YMSIGH:
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Way to go Harley!

Come on Hadley...you can do it! Your bean wants to see some GREEN. :-D
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Marcy & Klinger said:
Way to go Harley!

Come on Hadley...you can do it! Your bean wants to see some GREEN. :-D
Click to expand...

Thanks Marcy, Hadley must have heard you - he gave me a BLUE tonite! You re the original Kitty Whisperer - how much would an OTJ whisper cost me?
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

OK now this is NUTS.

Harley: AMPS=316, Shot 1.1u, +6=106, PMPS=245, Shot 1.2u, +4=65
Hadley: AMPS=140, retested 15 min. later and 157, Shot 1.5u, +6=302, PMPS=368, Shot 1.75u, +4=237

confused_cat
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

I would argue to have remained at 1.75U. I know that's a huge drop for a preshot given where he's been, but after reading what Dr. Lisa has to say about glucose toxicity I again think many people are too afraid of hypo and sabotage progress by backing off of doses which produce a result like this. He had a great +5 last night as well and lower than most +5's at lower doses.

I know you're in uncharted territory in this regard with Hadley, but you're very good at testing mid-cycle so you would catch any trouble. And most likely he would not get in trouble.

You're just not going to know how 1.75U would do for him without staying on it even with a lower preshot. Shoot low to stay low.

And Dr. Lisa's comments are in this series of posts on PZI, which I know is a different insulin, but she has very good points about cats "drowning in sugar." I start with her first reply in the thread, but she posts more in each thread.

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=57769&p=627507&#p627507

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58009&p=630767&#p630707

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58953&p=642503&#p640898

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=58953&p=642503&#p642503

The last post is very long and involved. What I love about Dr. Lisa is her ability to break complex processes down and explain them so we understand without all the medical jargon. And I really like her explanation of "warranted" vs "unwarranted" rebound. Yes, the 2 exist, I have seen them myself. And it's also nice to see a vet verify the existence of rebound.

BTW, if anyone wants to discuss this, let's please open a thread here. We are always open to general discussion because it helps everyone.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Hi Vicky, Yeah, you were right, should have shot the 1.75u. He was 302 @ +6. :oops:

Thanks for the links to Copper's thread in PZI - there's one I missed in my sojourn over there. I'll read them tonite.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

I read Dr. Lisa's posts and I appreciate your sharing them Vicky as they are very timely. I've been struggling trying to interpret Hadley's numbers, not sure if he's rebounding from too much insulin or just isn't getting enough. Lacking the experience of interpreting SS's of other cats, I find the different patterns very hard to distinguish with him.

Sticking with the 1.75u for now but not expecting it to do what it did again last night.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Harley is looking good - may have some left over shed from the higher dose (before the 43 the other night) os give some time to settle on the new dose. Are you going to stick with 1.1u? That seems good to me.

For Hadley maybe he needs something between 1.5 and 1.75?

BTW, we had another bread incident here last night. I woke up to find my loaf of cranberry nut bread on the floor (damn! I hate the waste). I tested Beau and he was 89, so I am not worried. Jed was in the 300s :roll: . I bet it was Leanne that got into it and got it on the floor. I hope her tummy doesn't get upset.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Oh Sheila, I'm laughing here but not at you, just at the situation. I'd take it as a compliment that you make a mean cranberry bread! Sorry about Jeddie's numbers though. I totally commiserate with you.

I'm trying 1.2u today with Harley to see if the Goldilocks rule applies "1.3 sends him into the 40s, 1.1 gives him 100, maybe 1.2 will be in the middle and just right?" Cross paws. ETA: Not!

Hadley is definitely feeling better with more insulin. He's playing with the Yeoow! cigars that I bought the kids just yesterday and this morning he and Molly were running races. I think she chases him and he tolerates it for a little while. He's been gaining weight too so I'm cutting back on his food. When he first arrived he was getting 12oz of food (4 cans of FF) a day and still losing weight. Now he's down to 8oz and still gaining so I may reduce a little again.

Harley: AMPS=286, Shot 1.2u, +6=120, PMPS=304, Shot 1.3u (ETA: I'd mis-typed the dose as 1.2u earlier), +4=84
Hadley: AMPS=357, Shot 1.75u, +6=273, PMPS-340, Shot 2u, +4=240
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

I think that 1.2 looks good with tonight's numbers - give a chance to settle (unless he drops low again, of course).

My guys both ate like pigs for months after diagnosis. They had both lost a lot of weight. I can't speak to Jeddie's situation, but I can kick myself for not noticing Beau's wt loss sooner. I was such an idiot! "Oh, look, the Iams weight management is finally working!" Oy. He was eating over 10 ozs for months because he wasn't regulated (vetsulin without home testing - Oy again!). Jeddie was eating about 10-11 ozs when I first got him. Both are at about 6-7 ozs now.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

My bad Sheila, I mistyped 1.2u for Harley's PMPS above - I actually shot 1.3u last night. Did pretty good so I shot it again this AM. :-)

Iams Weight Management - there's a contradiction in terms. LOL It's amazing all the things our sugar kitties have taught us that we would not have learned had they never been diagnosed extra sweet. And has we not found wonderful sites like FDMB. My Princess went from 15 lbs to 11 lbs 5 years ago over a period of a few months and at first I'm thinking this is a good thing because she's needed to lose weight for years, then when she stopped eating I realized it was not so good a thing and took her to the vet. Ran all the tests for pancreatitis, bloodwork, etc. nothing unusual except high liver values indicative of FHL. God I was so stupid and she almost died. But I nursed her through it despite her being so unsocialized that I could barely touch her. Since then she realized I'm not that bad a person and will sleep on my pillow and let me rub her chin.

Mr. Oinker (Hadley) is none too happy about me trying to reduce his food intake... But I'm loving the 2u so far! ETA: My love affair with 2u is over, easy come, easy go.

Harley: AMPS=184, Shot 1.3u, +6=64, PMPS=324, Shot 1.3u, +4.5=85
Hadley: AMPS=230, Shot 2u, +6=36/35, fed 2 drops Karo & 1/4 can 9Lives, +6.25=44, +7=55, PMPS=264, Shot 1.75u, +4.5=169
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Yeah, I think you made the jump to 2u too fast - after only 4.5 days of 1.5u and only 1 day on 1.75u. In fact, he had some nice cycles of 1.5u a month or so ago.

I think dry food is fine for treats - but only the really "good" stuff: grain-free, muscle meat protein source, etc. I can't believe the lies the food companies tell us about their "complete and balance" dry foods - and how many people believe it! That, and dry food cleans their teeth. I have been known to "inform" other customers at PetSmart about how bad dry food is.... :roll: :lol:
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Yeah, I pushed the envelope a little to fast this time. I hate watching poor Hadley not feeling good in those pinks and reds - those colors do not agree with him! He's always famished, drinking up a storm, moody and picks fights with the girls over stupid stuff like "you're sitting in my chair." He's especially picking on Princess right now and I'm watching her in case it's a sign that she's getting sicker - you know how the strong ones lower down in the pecking order turn out the weak older ones when they are sick. Nothing obvious to make me rush her to the vet though. She's due in a few weeks for her thyroid test so I might ask them to take a closer look.

Ahhhh yes, the pet store...a most interesting place. Just after Christmas I was buying food and I had 6 cases of FF in my cart (on sale) plus assorted 9Lives and Friskies. A guy asks me if FF is good for cats and I said yes. He asked how many cats I had and I said 4. He backed away from me like I'd grown another head. :shock: :roll: Geez, I'm not the one that started the conversation!

Today's bingo numbers are:

Harley: AMPS=287, Shot 1.3u, +7=138, +8=191, PMPS=287, Shot 1.3u, +4=201
Hadley: AMPS=237, Shot 1.75u, +7=50, fed usual LC, +7.5=61, +8=95, PMPS=424 (ouch!), Shot 1.75u, +4=195
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

He backed away from me like I'd grown another head.
Click to expand...
So glad I was done with my coffee or I would have snorted it all over my keyboard!

A while ago, in another life, I had *only* two cats. That was a respectable number and no one looked at me funny when I answered the, "how many cats do you have" question. Then I trapped Beau and had to sheepishly answer "three". I would wait for the comments or the looks. Then I was back to two for a year and it seemed too... something not right....and I got two kittens. Thereafter, my response to that question has been a defiant "FOUR!" (or "FIVE!" for a few years before I lost Charlotte). In that one word is, "who cares what you think! I have lovely, wonderful cats and we all could not live without the others!". So there.
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

So glad you'd finished your coffee Sheila or I'd have owed you another computer!

Today was kind of interesting. I'm still dose hunting for Hadley but getting closer I think:

Harley: AMPS=290, Shot 1.3u, +6=69, PMPS=355, Shot 1.3u, +4=129
Hadley: AMPS=186, Shot 1.5u, +6=225, PMPS=229, Shot 1.6u, +4=44, fed usual LC snack, +5=51, +6=51
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Harley: AMPS=284, Shot 1.3u, +6=45, fed usual LC snack, PMPS=225, Shot 1.2u, +5=142
Hadley: AMPS=287, Shot 1.6u, +6=95, PMPS=100, Shot 1.6u, +5=104 :-D
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Not a whole computer - just a keyboard :-D

Hmmm, I think 1.6u is a bit too much for Hadley. What do you think? Could he have been lower the night before last - hence rebound stopping him from dropping on 1.5u during the day?

Harley is doing a little swinging too, but he might settle back down given some time to get used to the 70s.

(also - time for a new thread I think. This one is getting very long).
 
Re: Dos Hermanos: Harley & Hadley - We did it again. (sigh)

Hadley is swinging but I was thinking that his lows last night were due to residual shed from 1.75u. Maybe not? His +6 today was much better though. I'm thinking on holding 1.6u tonight and see what he does and then decide...

Harley went to 45 at +6 today and was freaking out royally. He hasn't minded the 70's lately but anything below 50 drives him bonkers. So I'm going to reduce to 1.2 tonite. Poor fellow.

Yeah. it's past time for a new thread! Just got into a nice rhythm posting here. :oops: I'd never cut it over in LL. :lol:
 
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