? Does low carb canned hydrolyzed food exist?

[membeth]

My kitty Pants has EPI and IBD in addition to diabetes in remission, and that combination has been challenging. She did OK for 2.5 years on novel protein foods, but she's started losing weight. The vet thought she should try a hydrolyzed diet, but the Hills z/d canned is 35% carbs and her first meal spiked her BG to 240. Before that, she'd been running 80-120 non-fasting (I don't update my spreadsheet anymore, since she's not on insulin).

Is there a lower carb hydrolyzed wet food available? It doesn't have to be super-low, just lower than the Hills z/d. She's done fine with 15-20% carbs in novel protein foods. The other hydrolyzed canned food I know of is Blue. It's not on the chart, so not sure how it compares carb wise.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Have you thought about a raw diet?
I’m going to tag a few people who have experience with IBD who may have some ideas.
@Wendy&Neko
@Katherine&Ruby
@Suzanne & Darcy
@tiffmaxee

 

[membeth]

Have you thought about a raw diet?
I’m going to tag a few people who have experience with IBD who may have some ideas.
@Wendy&Neko
@Katherine&Ruby
@Suzanne & Darcy
@tiffmaxee

Thanks! I did look into raw diets when she was first diagnosed with IBD, but due to my own stomach issues, I'm very high risk for food-borne illnesses, so feeding Pants raw food doesn't seem like a good option. I don't cook meat/poultry/fish anymore for myself to avoid having to handle it raw.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thanks! I did look into raw diets when she was first diagnosed with IBD, but due to my own stomach issues, I'm very high risk for food-borne illnesses, so feeding Pants raw food doesn't seem like a good option. I don't cook meat/poultry/fish anymore for myself to avoid having to handle it raw.

What about a ready made up raw food that you just grace to spoon out?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I haven’t had to feed the hydrolyzed protein diets in years. Back then it was Hill’s Z/D that I fed to a non-diabetic cat (not helpful, I know.)

I looked into the Blue Buffalo hydrolyzed diet just this morning and the reviews were overwhelming that cat’s don’t like it. I don’t know the carb content, sorry. It may be on some of the food charts around (I haven’t had time to look on Dr. Lisa’s chart or any others.)

If she is losing weight, you should discuss starting Budesonide with your vet to treat the IBD and see if that will help control her symptoms. You really don’t want to go down that slippery slope of weight loss if you can help it. @Wendy&Neko says the Budesonide did not affect Neko’s BG. Now I realize that your sweetie is in remission and you don’t want to mess that up, but you are managing multiple serious conditions that can be life threatening and will, at some point, have to prioritize one condition over the others. @Margaret (and Pearl) Pearl went into remission on Prednisolone (although not daily Prednisolone, I believe?). And @Katherine&Ruby … Katherine had to prioritize the IBD over tight control of Ruby’s diabetes when she went on Prednisolone, but Ruby does really well.

I am sorry not to have a recommendation for hydrolyzed food that is low carb. I wonder if there’s such a thing. I do like Bron’s idea about a prepared raw diet where you could just spoon it out and not handle the meat.

 

[Margaret and Pearl (GA)]

Now I realize that your sweetie is in remission and you don’t want to mess that up, but you are managing multiple serious conditions that can be life threatening and will, at some point, have to prioritize one condition over the others. @Margaret (and Pearl) Pearl went into remission on Prednisolone (although not daily Prednisolone, I believe?).

Hi! Pearl did go into remission on Prednisolone (every 4th day). I use it to manage multiple medical conditions for her - primarily asthma, but also chronic pancreatitis and chronic IBD. Have you considered a new novel protein for her, or has she exhausted all possible ones out there? I would go that route first if possible. Hydrolyzed diets work for some cats, and not for others (and being the crazy house we are, didn't work for my cats because we found out they couldn't have grains at all or chicken or fish - which the hydrolyzed diets often do contain to some degree).

Have you also been using appetite stimulants and Cerenia for nausea? Those can really help as well as getting on a steroid for IBD management. I would probably go this route first even before the hydrolyzed if it was me - given that I know how my cats react to the grains, chicken, and fish components.

In the majority of cats, Budesonide doesn't really raise BG. Pearl is the odd duck out here. Recently we tried it, and I believed she would be fine and so I didn't monitor her BG for a few weeks on the medication - long story short, it threw Pearl out of remission, so now we are working our way back to remission again. She is able to achieve remission and STAY in remission on the Pred every 4th day (we worked down to this from daily Pred for a long time - which you do with IBD. You find the ideal dose and dosing schedule and stay on it). I think the Budesonide is definitely worth a try first, just make sure to monitor BG closely not like me

I hope this helps!

 

[tiffmaxee]

I understand why you can’t feed raw. There are now some cooked healthy foods for cats. More still for dogs. That might be an option depending on what proteins she has not had before. What proteins has she had even once? I can give you names of some companies that might work for you.

Primal and Small Batch make raw that comes already portioned into 1 ounce servings. It stores in the refrigerator and I take out a day’s food each night and it thaws out in the fridge overnight.

 

[membeth]

Thanks so much for all of your help.

Unfortunately, budesonide is what knocked Pants out of remission in 2018. She went from normal BG to numbers in the 500s within days. She does very poorly on insulin as she doesn't react predictably to it and had multiple emergency hospitalizations for near-death hypos, so I prioritized getting her back in remission. Her weight was stable for a long time from just novel protein food for the IBD and enzymes for the EPI.

She had what the vet thought was a tummy bug a few weeks ago, and even though she recovered pretty quickly (after Cerenia, mirtazapine, and subcutaneous fluids), she didn't gain back the weight and has lost a tiny bit more. She's eating enough and keeping enough down to maintain her weight, so it seems to be more of an absorption problem. Barfing some of what she eats back up certainly isn't helping, so maybe adding an anti-nausea drug longer term would improve things. I'm trying CBD now, but I don't think it's doing anything.

I have not run through all the novel proteins. She's had rabbit, duck, and lamb, so that's ticked quite a few off the list. She's definitely got an issue with chicken, and the vet thinks other fowl have similar enough proteins to be a bad idea. Oddly, Pants absolutely will not eat seafood based cat food, even though she loves people food tuna and salmon, so those are out. Maybe I need to try venison or kangaroo?

I'm not even totally sure the problem is IBD, as EPI also causes weight loss. I just ordered more pancreatic enzyme in case that is the issue, as I did notice it seemed like the new issues started shortly after I opened a new thing of it. Might be a total coincidence, but I'm going to pitch the enzyme I have left and start over with a new batch.

 

[membeth]

Forgot to mention -- I have tried HPP (high pressure pasteurized) raw food for her in the past. It was something rabbit based and much better quality than the P/R she's on now, but she turned up her nose at it. I don't remember the brand name, but I think it came in little plastic cups with foil tops. I'm open to trying HPP again with a new protein if anyone has suggestions.

 

[tiffmaxee]

I’m feeding my girl with skin allergies Primal Venison. Zia makes canned venison.
Does she have chronic pancreatitis as well?

 

[tiffmaxee]

Primal uses HPP.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Ondansetron has been proven to be much better than Cerenia at controlling nausea. I had the same experience. The downside to is is it’s not as long lasting so have to give more than once a day.

Has Pants had her B12 levels tested? Many kitties with GI issues need B12 supplementation.

I fed raw or canned novel proteins. Have you tried pork? Identity makes a canned pork option. Venison or kangaroo may be options. Current IBD girl can do turkey and quail, but not chicken, fish, beef, seafood. I think one of the canned kangaroo has green lipped mussels, also on the bad list here.

One option to investigate, though I don’t know the current carb levels, is Rayne cat food. They only sell to vets, and older versions of the food were not low carb, more like medium. Kangaroo is one of their optiions.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

If there's a food your cat likes, you can consider adding some fat to it to bulk up the calories. Something like ghee (butter without the milk solids) or a neutral oil will work. I would use a small amount to make sure you don't get diarrhea if you give too much.

 

[Butters & Lyla]

Just came here to say that I have been feeding Butters z/d since around August and officially started a food trial (z/d and NOTHING else) in September due to her having suspected Triaditis and also she experiences pruritus (don't yet know what is causing that). I did a consult with a boarded nutritionist who said that the studies show that hydrolyzed diets have a higher success rate for cats with GI inflammation and allergies or hypersensitivities (i can't remember which one) versus novel protein. So the nutritionist narrowed her diet choice for Butters down to z/d or the Royal Canin Anallergenic. Ultimately went with z/d because it comes in canned and not just dry. Butters's GI issues have been so much better since then. Yes, I've had to give her more insulin. Her numbers are a little more difficult to control but after seeing how painful Butters was when she had a flare up, I'd rather give her a high carb food and more insulin any day.

Just my experience, fwiw. I admit I was against prescription food in the beginning. But I will never speak out against it again. The z/d has helped her so much. Best of luck to you in figuring out what works for Pants.

 

[membeth]

I’m feeding my girl with skin allergies Primal Venison. Zia makes canned venison.
Does she have chronic pancreatitis as well?

The vet doesn't think so, but her test results weren't definitive and she hasn't had full bloodwork done recently. She probably needs labs sent to A&M again. I'm not finding Zia online -- I see a Ziwi venison canned food with great reviews on Chewy. Is that what you meant?

 

[membeth]

Ondansetron has been proven to be much better than Cerenia at controlling nausea. I had the same experience. The downside to is is it’s not as long lasting so have to give more than once a day.

Has Pants had her B12 levels tested? Many kitties with GI issues need B12 supplementation.

I fed raw or canned novel proteins. Have you tried pork? Identity makes a canned pork option. Venison or kangaroo may be options. Current IBD girl can do turkey and quail, but not chicken, fish, beef, seafood. I think one of the canned kangaroo has green lipped mussels, also on the bad list here.

One option to investigate, though I don’t know the current carb levels, is Rayne cat food. They only sell to vets, and older versions of the food were not low carb, more like medium. Kangaroo is one of their optiions.

I've actually taken ondansetron myself, years and years ago, but I didn't know cats could take it. Good info!

She has had her B12 tested, but not recently. She was deficient, so is on B12 shots, which got her back to normal levels. Probably worth getting full lab work done again just to make sure the shots are still sufficient, among other things.

I haven't tried pork, I adopted her when she was a young adult, so I don't know for sure what's novel to her, and pork is less unusual an ingredient in cat food than, say, duck. She does OK with seafood people food, but rejects seafood cat food. Kangaroo with mussels might be OK though. Is that a Ziwi one? I'm thinking about trying their venison and mussels for her. I'm also looking at Rayne. Medium carb is probably OK for her.

 

[membeth]

Just came here to say that I have been feeding Butters z/d since around August and officially started a food trial (z/d and NOTHING else) in September due to her having suspected Triaditis and also she experiences pruritus (don't yet know what is causing that). I did a consult with a boarded nutritionist who said that the studies show that hydrolyzed diets have a higher success rate for cats with GI inflammation and allergies or hypersensitivities (i can't remember which one) versus novel protein. So the nutritionist narrowed her diet choice for Butters down to z/d or the Royal Canin Anallergenic. Ultimately went with z/d because it comes in canned and not just dry. Butters's GI issues have been so much better since then. Yes, I've had to give her more insulin. Her numbers are a little more difficult to control but after seeing how painful Butters was when she had a flare up, I'd rather give her a high carb food and more insulin any day.

Just my experience, fwiw. I admit I was against prescription food in the beginning. But I will never speak out against it again. The z/d has helped her so much. Best of luck to you in figuring out what works for Pants.

My vet said the same thing about hydrolyzed being better for GI issues. I wish the z/d worked, but she barfed it everywhere. I cannot imagine how fancy hypoallergenic cat food could make her barf when she's keeping down P/R fine, but I guess she associates the z/d with the barfing because now she won't touch it. So even if it's the right trade off to feed it and accept it's going to bump up her BG due to the higher carbs, she's not going to cooperate with that. Sigh.

 

[tiffmaxee]

The vet doesn't think so, but her test results weren't definitive and she hasn't had full bloodwork done recently. She probably needs labs sent to A&M again. I'm not finding Zia online -- I see a Ziwi venison canned food with great reviews on Chewy. Is that what you meant?

Sorry that auto correct changed Ziwi on me. Yes that is it

 

[Butters & Lyla]

My vet said the same thing about hydrolyzed being better for GI issues. I wish the z/d worked, but she barfed it everywhere. I cannot imagine how fancy hypoallergenic cat food could make her barf when she's keeping down P/R fine, but I guess she associates the z/d with the barfing because now she won't touch it. So even if it's the right trade off to feed it and accept it's going to bump up her BG due to the higher carbs, she's not going to cooperate with that. Sigh.

Awww. Butters has also developed an aversion to the z/d wet. I get it. This is really hard. I went through so many different foods with her trying to find something that helped her.

One other suggestion from Butters's nutritionist that I'll share with you is to use a hypoallergenic dry food but soak it before you feed, or blend a day's worth of it with water to make it into a pate, so it is like wet food. I've done it with z/d dry and Butters loves it. She had me buy a new blender carafe that is only used for her food, because she said plastic can be contaminated by whatever has been in it previously.

If you do consider this as an option for Pants (if the novel protein doesn't work, for example), you may want to talk with your vet about trying the Royal Canin Anallergenic food. It is dry only, so you'd need to create a pate or soak it. The proteins are broken down even smaller than the z/d hyperallergenic. So some pets' GI systems still react to the z/d but then do not react to the anallergenic. The vet told me that the studies show that this anallergenic diet currently has the highest rate of success in cats with GI inflammation.

 

[membeth]

Thanks, everyone. I'm taking her back in to the vet on Friday and will try to get new GI bloodwork to see if that sheds more light on what's going on, and ask about anti-nausea drugs, appetite stimulants, and diet options.

 

[membeth]

My vet says the Blue hydrolyzed canned food is significantly lower carb than the Hills z/d, but more cats reject Blue than the z/d. Pants is probably not going to be willing to eat it because it's salmon flavored. So I may give it a try, but I'm probably going to have fall back on trying other novel proteins.

The vet gave me ondansetron to try and referred Pants for a specialist internal medicine consultation, an abdominal ultrasound, and the GI panel. So hopefully ondansetron or different food will work, and if not, I've got the specialist appointment scheduled for early January.