? Does anyone have experience with (major, soft tissue) surgery in a diabetic cat?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lisa and Angel

Member Since 2023
Angel needs surgery, one that will leave a big soft tissue wound. It's vital that she heals well afterwards to prevent a recurrence of nerve pain (which is the problem that started this whole mess). We've been delaying the surgery for several months now but it's getting more and more pressing to get it done soon.

Elevated blood glucose levels are well known to inhibit the healing of wounds, but I don't know at what number/range of glucose levels it starts being a problem. You can check Angel's SS to see where she's at now. She spends a lot of time in the yellows and blues, with some occasional greens. I'm just not sure if it's enough.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I have an appointment with our chronic pain specialist next week who will be directing the surgery, but he's not very well known in diabetes. I'm going to ask him to consult with a specialist on that, but I just thought I'd ask on here too.:cat:
 
Years ago I adopted Mario, a 15 year old untreated diabetic. When I went to pick him up in Philadelphia (I live in Northern VA), he looked like a basket case. After a short time he was lethargic and would not eat. His BG control ws not good at all. Bloodwork and ultrasound showed a blocked bile duct. They did surgery which included biopsies. When I visited him after surgery he looked like the living dead and had a long suture line. He recovered but it took a long time for his fur to grow back. The biopsies show small cell intestinal lymphoma. He was treated for that. He lived another two years with most of that time having a good quality of life.
 
Years ago I adopted Mario, a 15 year old untreated diabetic. When I went to pick him up in Philadelphia (I live in Northern VA), he looked like a basket case. After a short time he was lethargic and would not eat. His BG control ws not good at all. Bloodwork and ultrasound showed a blocked bile duct. They did surgery which included biopsies. When I visited him after surgery he looked like the living dead and had a long suture line. He recovered but it took a long time for his fur to grow back. The biopsies show small cell intestinal lymphoma. He was treated for that. He lived another two years with most of that time having a good quality of life.

Thank you for sharing Mario's story! Poor little guy, it sounds like you took great care of him though. Did the wound/suture line heal up normally or did it take longer than normal like in human diabetics? Angel too had zero fur growth in the first 8-ish months after her diabetes diagnosis (also had a bald belly for ultrasound, plus bald throat from bloodwork, plus bald spot for libre 2 sensor), but after that it finally started growing again and is now working normally again.
 
Lisa -

There are plenty of humans who have less than ideal BG levels and need major surgeries. I see lots of humans who need coronary artery by-pass surgery and it's typically more on the emergency situation than an elective procedure. The wound healing may take more time but the wound should heal. Make sure that Angel will eat and get sufficient protein in her diet.

One thought may be to ask if the pain specialist would be comfortable talking with a veterinary endocrinologist or internal medicine vet who has experience with feline diabetes and post-surgical recovery. Some of the things that I would think about are how the post-surgical pain and overall stress from surgery will affect blood glucose numbers.
 
Lisa -

There are plenty of humans who have less than ideal BG levels and need major surgeries. I see lots of humans who need coronary artery by-pass surgery and it's typically more on the emergency situation than an elective procedure. The wound healing may take more time but the wound should heal. Make sure that Angel will eat and get sufficient protein in her diet.

Hi Gabby,

Thank you for commenting! Maybe I should elaborate a bit.

In 2021, Angel had a (what turned out to be benign) lump removed, from her shoulder/flank area. The vet did not do a great job, quite frankly. They left a huge suture line (we called her "frankencat" for a while) and removed so much skin and tissue that the remaining skin was pulled so incredibly tight that she couldn't even reach down to clean her bum. But she healed, and she was fine, or so we thought.

About 8 months after the procedure, she began having attacks that looked like feline hyperesthesia, always aimed at her surgical scar. After lots of treatments, trials and error and LOTS of vets, we found out that she was suffering from persistant post-surgical nerve pain. The pain is progressive; the attacks/episodes became longer and longer until it was just constant with periodic flareups with more intensity, and the severity continues to increase. It started as twitching and licking, then gnawing, then biting, then biting and tearing at her skin causing actual wounds. She wore a t-shirt for about a year to prevent her from injuring herself.

Disregarding all the meds that didn't help, she was on gabapentin first. Worked for a while, then the progressive pain progressed and the med became ineffective. We started the merry-go-round of increasing the dose for a couple months, until she was on a massive dose 3 times a day. Then we switched to pregabalin. Same story here, effective until the pain gets worse again. Then we increase. Currently she's on approx. 62.5mg 2 times a day (the max. recommended dose for a cat her size is 12mg).

In november 2023 we saw a chronic pain specialist as my vet was out of options. She was taking 85mg pregabalin twice daily at the time. He laid out some options for us, including surgery, but said we could treat conservatively with additional meds first to see if that'd be enough to bring down her pregabalin dose. We started her on tramadol; this worked well, but had too many side effects (she would spend most of the day laying with her head on the rim of the water bowl staring out into space). She had a ketamine IV on december 7th that also worked well at reducing her central sensitisation, but didn't fully resolve the pain that came from within. We started her on memantine after that, and that combo has worked best of all the things we've tried so far. She has not needed to wear her t-shirt since the ketamine IV.

Right now, we're out of options for additional meds, and even the pregabalin + memantine + ketamine IV treatment protocol is not enough to keep her stable and comfortable. The pain is getting worse again, but we don't want to have to increase the pregabalin any more as she's already on such a high dose, and every increase results in explosive diarrhea for some time. So, we're facing the surgery.

The surgery: major resection of the entire initial surgical scar and all the misfiring nervous tissue within, with a skin flap taken from her belly to cover the wound. She will receive maximum pain relief before, during and after the surgery. It's absolutely vital that the tissue then heals as optimally as possible to prevent a recurrance of the nerve pain. We're worried that if her diabetes isn't tightly regulated, it's gonna interfere and render this whole process useless. So it's a delicate dance between wanting to get it done ASAP, but wanting to give it the best possible shot of working as well.

To note, this has been and still is a very difficult decision for me. The people around me think I'm nuts to do this, even my regular vet. We don't know if it'll work, if the pain will be cured or even come back, and it's a big (and expensive) surgery. But the alternative is putting her down, and I just don't think I can bring myself to do that when there's still a chance we haven't taken.

One thought may be to ask if the pain specialist would be comfortable talking with a veterinary endocrinologist or internal medicine vet who has experience with feline diabetes and post-surgical recovery. Some of the things that I would think about are how the post-surgical pain and overall stress from surgery will affect blood glucose numbers.

Thank you, I'll be sure to ask that! I know he's got an internal medicine colleague as he's mentioned them before. He is of the belief that Angel's diabetes is being exacerbated by her chronic pain, and once that's gone, she should be much easier to regulate, to say the least. I agree with that, as her numbers have been affected by how well her pain has been controlled in the past. I worry sometimes that we won't even get her regulated until she's pain-free, tbh.
 
Last edited:
I can't even begin to imagine what this has been like for Angel and for you. I know a few people who deal with chronic pain. It can be a nightmare. One obvious difference is that you can inform a human about what is going on. Unless Angel has a wonderful command of English, this is literally a painful mystery. The pain will make the diabetes harder to regulate -- any stress causes the release of corticosteroids which, in turn, raise blood glucose. Just remember, you can adjust the insulin dose to counter the stress induced hyperglycemia.

One observation... On the day you were at the day for Angel's vaccinations, her numbers dropped. Some cats do have a stress reaction whereby their numbers drop rather than rise. If this is the case, please keep your eyes on her once she's home. In addition, make sure her blood glucose is monitored closely during and after surgery. It would be helpful to know if the vet has 24/7 coverage and monitoring. Anesthesia can also drop blood glucose numbers so it's particularly important to ensure Angel is monitored especially if she's one of those kitties whose numbers tend to react to stress with lower blood glucose numbers.
 
I just want to wish you and Angel all the best .♥♥
I never knew you could give cats ketamine infusions, I am familiar with those because my daughter had a chronic pain condition for 19 years and did try the ketamine infusions. My heart goes out to you and Angel :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:♥ Sending prayers for her always
@Lisa and Angel
 
I can't even begin to imagine what this has been like for Angel and for you. I know a few people who deal with chronic pain. It can be a nightmare. One obvious difference is that you can inform a human about what is going on. Unless Angel has a wonderful command of English, this is literally a painful mystery. The pain will make the diabetes harder to regulate -- any stress causes the release of corticosteroids which, in turn, raise blood glucose. Just remember, you can adjust the insulin dose to counter the stress induced hyperglycemia.

One observation... On the day you were at the day for Angel's vaccinations, her numbers dropped. Some cats do have a stress reaction whereby their numbers drop rather than rise. If this is the case, please keep your eyes on her once she's home. In addition, make sure her blood glucose is monitored closely during and after surgery. It would be helpful to know if the vet has 24/7 coverage and monitoring. Anesthesia can also drop blood glucose numbers so it's particularly important to ensure Angel is monitored especially if she's one of those kitties whose numbers tend to react to stress with lower blood glucose numbers.

Thank you, a nightmare is definitely accurate.

With her vaccinations, I think that drop was because she didn't have her usual second breakfast. But I'll definitely keep a close eye on that, thank you! I'll ask about their monitoring. Since she'll have to be fasted beforehand anyways, I think we'll have to skip insulin the morning of and the evening prior to the surgery (so I'll shoot AMPS the prior day and no more after that), but I'll still have to discuss that with the vet. I still have a libre 2 sensor left over that I'd like to put on her, but that'll have to be done after the surgery since they're not 100% sure yet from where they'll take the skin flap and I don't want the sensor to get in the way.
 
I just want to wish you and Angel all the best .♥♥
I never knew you could give cats ketamine infusions, I am familiar with those because my daughter had a chronic pain condition for 19 years and did try the ketamine infusions. My heart goes out to you and Angel :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:♥ Sending prayers for her always
@Lisa and Angel

Yeah it's amazing the advances they've made in modern medicine! Right now we're looking forward to this event: The Chronic Pain Symposium 2024 from Elearning.Vet & CAM to see if there's any new developments that we can put into practice with Angel. Thank you for the prayers:bighug:
 
Elevated blood glucose levels are well known to inhibit the healing of wounds, but I don't know at what number/range of glucose levels it starts being a problem. You can check Angel's SS to see where she's at now. She spends a lot of time in the yellows and blues, with some occasional greens..:cat:
My gosh. I do understand your ordeal. My late Monkeydo survived bile duct surgery and lived another 14 months. He did not have diabetes (his sister does), but it was like an infirmary around here. When his internist said he needed a second exploratory surgery (or that I should plan his euthanasia), I refused to put Monkeydo through that again. I took on the pain of losing him to free him from his.
I looked at Angel's spreadsheet. Is she still eating high carb food? When Sister was diagnosed, I was able to regulate her BG numbers and ween her off Lantus using low carb. Sending hugs. :bighug:
 
Just to keep in mind that you will likely be able to give insulin at PMPS the night before. The insulin is largely worn off after 12-hours so don't be surprised if the vet says it's OK to give the PM dose.
 
Neko's only surgery when diabetic was removal of a bony bump on her jawbone that was growing quickly and interfering with her eating. So that required cutting through soft tissue to get to the bone. It healed fine and she was on buprenorphine for pain. She was already on buprenorphine for her arthritis, but the dose was upped for a week. Her numbers did go up for about 7-10 days after the surgery, likely due to inflammation and maybe pain, but went down after that. I notice that you didn't include buprenorphine in the list of meds tried yet. She went to a dental specialist who was familiar with doing work on older and diabetic pets.
 
My gosh. I do understand your ordeal. My late Monkeydo survived bile duct surgery and lived another 14 months. He did not have diabetes (his sister does), but it was like an infirmary around here. When his internist said he needed a second exploratory surgery (or that I should plan his euthanasia), I refused to put Monkeydo through that again. I took on the pain of losing him to free him from his.
I looked at Angel's spreadsheet. Is she still eating high carb food? When Sister was diagnosed, I was able to regulate her BG numbers and ween her off Lantus using low carb. Sending hugs. :bighug:

I'm so sorry to hear about Monkeydo. I totally get that decision, it's so hard to know how far you should go.

Yes, she's still on high carb. The meds she's on make her tummy super sensitive and anything other than gastro/digestive food. Currently she's on Virbac Veterinary HPM Cat Digestive Support. It's better than most dry foods at 44% protein and (IIRC) about 18% carbs. I'm hopeful that I can change her diet after the surgery and getting off the meds.
 
Just to keep in mind that you will likely be able to give insulin at PMPS the night before. The insulin is largely worn off after 12-hours so don't be surprised if the vet says it's OK to give the PM dose.

I'll ask, but my PMPS is at 1am and that's several hours after they'll want me to start her fast. I thought no insulin without food?
 
Yes, the surgical site took a long time to re-fur. I noted that before with Mario too. The vet shaved an area of his neck to get blood via jugular and it took a long time for the fur to regrow
Thank you! It's strange isn't it? Angel had bald spots (where she was shaved) for over half a year. Zero fur growth. Just goes to show how much diabetes affects the entire body.
 
Neko's only surgery when diabetic was removal of a bony bump on her jawbone that was growing quickly and interfering with her eating. So that required cutting through soft tissue to get to the bone. It healed fine and she was on buprenorphine for pain. She was already on buprenorphine for her arthritis, but the dose was upped for a week. Her numbers did go up for about 7-10 days after the surgery, likely due to inflammation and maybe pain, but went down after that. I notice that you didn't include buprenorphine in the list of meds tried yet. She went to a dental specialist who was familiar with doing work on older and diabetic pets.

Thank you for sharing! Unfortunately buprenorphine isn't used very often in my country because we don't have long lasting versions like the US does. We only have (besides IV access in the clinic) the shot and gel that work (according to my vet) about 4 hours or so. So the dosing schedule at home is untenable for long term use. We'll probably use it post-surgery though, at least for the first few days.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top