Do we like 0.2u? PS 425 +3 166 +4 118 +5 113 +6 125

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Catannc

Catannc

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Alright, I'm back and though I wish I could keep on the totally believing in the vet route, I just can't let my kitty ride in these numbers. It seems we do have some pancreatic function here as 3/5 we went without insulin and she kept on her curve, but it all ended after that. I guess just a tiny bit of insulin reminds her body "hey, I can make this stuff!" Talked to the vet this am and he wants at least 2 weeks no shots, maybe much more to see if her body "re-boots". I don't think it will on it's own. I feel sick about doing this, but I think I'm just going to start her again. We are flat as all hell today, I know that could change and she could go up by pmps test at 8 eastern time, but if y'all could start discussing dosage scenarios I would much appreciate it. This sucks.
 
Re: Help with microdosing. ::sigh::

Hi, I just can't understand why a Vet would withhold insulin from a diabetic and the test numbers are clearly diabetic. A non diabetic cat's bg's are between 50 and 120.

Not giving insulin to a diabetic cat can lead to Ketones and DKA which can be deadly and if it doesn't kill it is extremely expensive to treat. Also every day that the kitty bg is over 280 it is damaging the vital organs especially the kidneys.

I'm really glad that you are changing you mind about the insulin.

From looking at your ss it looks like you were doing really good on the .2 unit. I think that I would start there and we will keep an eye on your ss and watch for any P action.

Good for you for being proactive for kitty.

Hugs, I know it's hard.
 
Re: Help with microdosing. ::sigh::

Thanks, i like the .2 too but I didn't know if I should be shooting to have some greens in there? I actually don't think we'll see too much the first cycle.

Cathy
 
Re: Help with microdosing. ::sigh::

Catannc said:
Thanks, i like the .2 too but I didn't know if I should be shooting to have some greens in there? I actually don't think we'll see too much the first cycle.

Cathy
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Probably not but the .2u is a good place to start and see what happens, then you can adjust from there. You were getting some nice blues with it.

We can go after the greens once we see how the insulin works for a few cycles.
 
Re: Help with microdosing. ::sigh::

K, thanks! Now to break it to the vet. Through email. And not answer my phone all day.
 
Re: Help with microdosing. 0.2 u again?

Keep feeding her the 2/3 at shot 1/3 when onset *really (who knows tonight) kicks in, or feed more at shot with a couple snacks later? Never really got the food thing figured out cause we were always trying to slow the drop figuring it was caused completely by the shot...but it's not, it's her body, so don't try to slow it now?
 
Re: Help with microdosing. 0.2 u again?

I think I would stick with what ever works for you best. Are you going to be around to test at onset? If so, and she's dropping fast you can feed her.

Also hang tough with the vet, he is in your employ and you are advocating for Kitten.

Also, make sure that you are testing for ketones, probably daily right now.
 
Re: Help with microdosing. 0.2 u again?

I'm trying with the ketones, but she's really sneaky and I have another cat. I have plastic in her box to catch it (how important is it to get a fresh hot sample if I find it well after she's urinated) but she hates it and has used the other cat's box...which I cant take away. I was just wondering with the feeding the drop thing if it was as important since she HAS to be producing insulin herself to see that kind of drop...and her body would just cut back on insulin if it were dropping too fast?
 
Re: Help with microdosing. 0.2 u again? Feed the drop?

I think that would be too easy, Cathy. Everything enters into the picture - the food, whether she is sleepy or angry at something or excited about the bird outside. Add in a pancreas that is more active sometimes than others. Complicated.

I think you need to experiment with the food. Earlier she had a rapid drop that you needed to slow down and food worked really well to do that.

If .2 makes you nervous, you can always start lower with .1 or just a drop. You can always raise it if it doesn't do enough.

What would she do if you left her alone in a room with the box filled with aquarium gravel until she went?
 
Re: Shooting at 8 pm est. 0.2 u again? Feed the drop?

Well, last time I tried that for the night, the aquarium gravel thing...and then when I finally gave up was when she snuck into the other box and peed in the one corner where there wasn't plastic. I'm not worried about the 0.2, figure it's not going to kill her, unless for some odd reason her ps is not where I think it'll be. We haven't seen a number anywhere close to dangerous since we dropped the 0.5.
 
Re: Shooting at 8 pm est. 0.2 u again? Feed the drop?

What would she do? probably pee on my bed...she's got a bit of 'tude.
 
Re: PMPS 425, 0.2 U 7pm EST

OT but speaking of 'tude...i mention a few days ago that she got smart and started using Hobie's box for her "stinkier" drop offs. Well, caught her doing it again a hour ago, ran in hoping she was peeing but no luck. Mr. Hobie I think is fed up with the situation, just went to get in the shower and guess what i found?
 
Re: PMPS 425, 0.2 U 7pm EST

A cat with a 'tude? I can't imagine.

I don't know you well, but my Alex has lots of attitude too. He doesn't like to be poked or shot, however he does like his treats.
 
Re: PMPS 425, 0.2 U 7pm EST

I'm lucky about all the poking, she doesn't even notice the injections and I don't even have to hold her down for the ear pricks. Only gets a little upset when I miss and have to try again.
 
Re: PMPS 425, 0.2 U 7pm EST

Hey Cathy, just stopped by for a minute...I'm working too much & exhausted right now. I just had to comment on the litter box. I would take that plastic off & leave it off. You don't want to set up a situation where one or both of your cats start going somewhere they aren't supposed to. At least your civvie used the shower, hopefully they won't go anywhere else. I also have a sneaky girl. I just catch her when I can, just try to be more aware of when she leaves the room. I have a bottle of strips right by 2 of the boxes so I can grab them if she heads in there. You just have to do the best you can and pay attention to how she's acting.

I'm not an expert on the food but I would suggest not stressing so much about it, that is if it's causing you grief. I have 4 set feeding times but I do free feed. There is usually food leftover so I just leave it out for them & especially when her numbers are on the low side. I freeze food in those plastic dishes KFC uses for their sides, a can of FF fits in there perfectly. You can also freeze it in ice trays, or silicone muffin trays. Some people use a auto feeder but since I have 5 that wouldn't work for me. I don't know if I just didn't pay enough attention but I don't remember there being a lot of "rules" on the food when I first started, and honestly it would make me nuts to try to feed her at a lot of different set times. I honestly thought a lot of people free fed their cats. With 5 cats in the house it's bad enough feeding 4 times a day. There is no way I could just feed her, if they aren't already begging for food they all come in screaming at me when I even touch a can or one of their bowls. :lol: I just can't imagine feeding her breakfast then +1 +3 or anything like that (unless she's going too low, then of course you have to keep an eye on her). I would spend my whole life in the kitchen dealing with cat food. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impression. If you have time & that's what you want to do then that's great.

I guess my point is there are a lot of "extra" things you have to do for your cat now so give yourself a break on some of it. You just have to do the best you can. The most important thing is testing & making sure she's not going to hypo.

I was disappointed to hear the vet wants you to let her go 2 weeks when her numbers are that high. :sad:
 
Re: PMPS 425, 0.2u, +2 346, +3 166!?

Thanks Barbara, at least I have something to show him tomorrow...+3 166...and rest of food in. Dang, I was thinking nothing tonight....now if I could just get some pee I'd feel a lot better.
 
Re: PMPS 425, 0.2u, +2 346, +3 166!?

So feed the drop and we'll hope she comes up and surfs awhile.

It really doesn't take much insulin to get a reaction from her. nailbite_smile
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166!?

Do we think that she is just super sensitive to insulin or does the pancreas possible just go "oh yeah, insulin, I can make that!"?
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166!?

I have done it before. Any more info on drops? I can twist the beads out...am I supposed to just do that while the needle is in?
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166!?

It could be either or both - sorry. She does seem to be really sensitive to both food and insulin, and then you mix the possible pancreas action. It makes her interesting. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166!?

I bought the gravel but it's still in my trunk. I just keep a litter box on a small table and Grayson is good about seeking it out. Strips are close and I work in the same room as him, so when he gets up, I'm right there. He's still making big pee pies, so I've got a pretty large window of opportunity if he gets a head start. Or, if I get to the "pond" before he covers, I just dip it, and that works too.

I just scrubbed out the litter box in the bathroom yesterday, and didn't get the new bucket of litter in from the car until later. Someone was kind enough to go in the box - without litter. You may want to try just leaving an empty litter box out. I also tend to confine my guys when they aren't feeling well - at least long enough so I can keep an eye on them. After the feeding/pottying/etc they can all intermingle again.

My (GA) Elsie lived to be 18, but had crystals and litter box issues much of her life. I think she lived on Batril... but the last few years of her life, she used an empty litter box. As long as I kept it clean, she didn't have any issues. Can't hurt to try, right?

Someone on another thread was asking about ketone testing. One of the responders talked about the tidy cat brand box that has the tray in it. Said she could capture the urine from the tray and it was easy. Might be worth looking into.
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166!?

I"m thinking there has to be some P in here....why else would she have had that NS cycle 2 days ago that mirrored her 0.2 cycles?
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166!?

Miss fancy pants Thumper wouldn't use that no sorb stuff from the vet so I never even tried gravel and she won't go in an empty box either. :roll: She likes to be as dificult as possible. I have followed her to the litter box & she will lay down & look at me like "I'm not going as long as you are here"!

I'm going to go out on a limb here. ohmygod_smile While that is quite a drop that 166 looks good. Are you with her all day tomorrow? What about staying with that .2 and see if it will get her in the greens? That is unless she drops down to 40 or 50 later on in this cycle. Ok, so nobody throw anything at me. I've gotten really brave since I started using Lantus & I like those greens. I think I'm going to run away now! :lol: bcatrun_gif

Cathy, don't go on what I say....you do what's within your comfort zone & listen to the others here. I was just throwing it out there. I used to panic when Thumper got much below 100. :lol:
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166 +4 118!?

Would someone let me know when I should start worrying? Yes, part of the reasoning on starting tonight is I can be here the next 2 days, it's my "weekend".
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166 +4 118!?

Catannc said:
Would someone let me know when I should start worrying?
Remember, ECID. If I saw a blue, I'd be hyperventilating!

My (inexperienced with low numbers) thoughts are: I'd keep an eye on him for any sizable drop in the +3 - +4 range, and any number less than 100 at all times. But listen to the more experienced folks here before you listen to me.
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Click to expand...
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166 +4 118!?

You gave her some food, right? hope she will surf.

So far she is okay. It's impossible to know if she will continue down. We would hope that she will level off and not get down below 50 before nadir. If she stays above 50, that will be fine. If she heads down low, it is the same routine as before - low carb first, then gravy. Syrup if needed.

Sorry, you will have to watch her for the next 2 hours, at least.
 
Re: Can I get some eyes? +3 166 +4 118!?

Catannc said:
Would someone let me know when I should start worrying? Yes, part of the reasoning on starting tonight is I can be here the next 2 days, it's my "weekend".
Click to expand...

You mean if you shot the same & she dropped low? I wish I wasn't working. Do you have the hypo instructions printed out & supplies? You need to print those just in case you ever need them. I'm really not sure anymore about Pro Zinc. I know even with dropping like that on Lantus I would continue to shoot the same dose unless she dropped pretty low.

Are you actually going to the vet tomorrow?

Robin, anyone reading this?

I might be kicked out of here! Is there an icon for ducking? :smile:

Unless someone else has advice I would go ahead & drop the dose a little.
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

Yeah, she's got food onboard an hour ago. I know our goal is green, just hard to not be a little nervous about it. So I'm to watch and see what happens this time, right?
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

No, not going to the vet but he has a link to the ss....he's in for a shocker.
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

Cathy, you can always post on health if no one is on here. If you read those hypo instructions you should be fine if you can't find anyone on. It's always nice to have someone around though.
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

Yep, your job is to test and intervene if she gets too low. Double digits at nadir (above 50) would be lovely.
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

Catannc said:
Yeah, she's got food onboard an hour ago. I know our goal is green, just hard to not be a little nervous about it. So I'm to watch and see what happens this time, right?
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You are right it is scary! Yes, if you can. If you want to go to bed you might just set an alarm & test her around +6. Can you just leave some food out for her?

Sorry I've gotta get off here. This is gonna be a long week!
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

I'm a night owl, so it's okay. Plus i shot her at 7 rather than 8 so it wouldn't be so late if this happened. So go green then, yay.
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

Oh wow...just noticed that 118 at +4. Yes, I would test her again at +5. If she continues to drop just feed her a teaspoon at a time. You don't want to fill her up in case she needs to eat again. Do you have some food with gravy?
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

Ok, great I see Sue is going to be around. You're in good hands with her!

Goodnight!

Hey Sue!
 
Re: Should I let her go green? +3 166 +4 118!?

I've got carby food and her nadir seems to run somewhere around 5, so hopefully we'll be okay.
 
Re: It's cool. +3 166 +4 118 +5 113

I have to sign off, Cathy. If she dips low and you need help, post on Health. You have dealt with this before and you and Kitty have done fine.
 
Re: Bed time. +3 166 +4 118 +5 113 +6 125

Anyone want to weigh in with ideas for tomorrow? That was the most traction we've gotten on 0.2 so far, she just does more and more with these tiny doses.
 
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