DKA ??

[Georgiana & Perlutz]

Hello,

I’ve just changed Perlutz litter box and I think there was a fruity smell coming from it or it was my paranoia...

We use silica litter so I’ve tested the wet litter from the bottom of the tray with several strips but they were all negative... I aso did few other tests during the week, either testing the wet litter on top from a fresh wee or testing the bottom of the litter - didn’t manage to collect a proper sample of pee. I’ve tested some clean litter with a bit of water just to see if the litter would affect the reaults but it gave me a negative result so I’m hoping the way I’ve tested is not completely innacurrate.

This week he started drinking more water again some days but no other dka symptoms. I saw no appetite is a dka symptom but Perlutz is eating very well, on the contrary, has a big appetite, even woke us up this morning as we were 10 min late feeding him!

Does anyone know more about dka? Could the strips be inaccurate? Should I take him to the vet (minimum chances of getting an appointment this weekend...) or wait until our scheduled appointment on Tuesday?

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

I don't have personal experience with DKA, but from what I've seen around here, I think you can probably wait until Tuesday, unless he stops eating or starts showing other signs of feeling poorly. I've heard of at least one case of high ketones (not DKA) where the cat seemed perfectly normal in terms of appetite, but it's not terribly common. He might be drinking more just because he's been bouncing into hyperglycemic numbers.

All that said, you know your kitty best, and if you're seeing something that is concerning to you, by all means take him to the vet to get checked out-- it's the only way to be truly sure.

Have you tried putting a bit of crumpled plastic wrap in the litter box to catch some pee? You really only need a little drop for the ketone tests, and sometimes that works.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Georgiana
If the strips are in date they should be accurate.
Is Perlutz shy in the litter box? I used to be able to put Sheba into the LB and she would pee for me. Didn't care if I was there or not.. if you could catch him peeing and grab a sample that would be ideal. Or put some crumpled plastic wrap in the LB as Nan suggested. You need to read the result from the strip at exactly 15 seconds to get a true result.
Not sure if you have seen this link to DKA. If Perlutz is not lethargic or have any of the other symptoms, other than thirst, then it may be that he is just in high numbers at times. He doesn't have an infection does he anywhere?
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/

I am going to tag @Kris & Teasel as she is experienced with DKA and caninsulin and may have some suggestions.
I would push for a change to Prozinc on Tuesday at the vet and hopefully get into better numbers. For your peace of mind I would ask for a ketone test on Tuesday also. In the meantime keep trying to get a sample, mix some warm water with his food for extra fluids and make sure he is eating plenty. If he starts to exhibit any of the other symptoms I would go to the vet earlier.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Here are some ways to get a urine ketone test:

• put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
• slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
• put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.

Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

Re DKA: if the ketone test strip shows "negative" you're OK. Usually a kitty who's heading for DKA is extremely lethargic, has a poor appetite, may have been vomiting and often has some sort of concurrent infection (eg. UTI or dental) or inflammation (eg. pancreatitis). They're obviously very ill. If your kitty is acting normal do check the urine for ketones as a precaution but odds are DKA isn't in the mix. You can also make a point of adding enough water to all wet food meals to make a soup, as has been suggested.

 

[Georgiana & Perlutz]

Have you tried putting a bit of crumpled plastic wrap in the litter box to catch some pee? You really only need a little drop for the ketone tests, and sometimes that works.

I have tried the plastic wrap trick but he likes to mess around in the litter before doing his business or he just avoided them...

 

[Georgiana & Perlutz]

Hi Georgiana
If the strips are in date they should be accurate.
Is Perlutz shy in the litter box? I used to be able to put Sheba into the LB and she would pee for me. Didn't care if I was there or not.. if you could catch him peeing and grab a sample that would be ideal. Or put some crumpled plastic wrap in the LB as Nan suggested. You need to read the result from the strip at exactly 15 seconds to get a true result.
Not sure if you have seen this link to DKA. If Perlutz is not lethargic or have any of the other symptoms, other than thirst, then it may be that he is just in high numbers at times. He doesn't have an infection does he anywhere?
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/

I am going to tag @Kris & Teasel as she is experienced with DKA and caninsulin and may have some suggestions.
I would push for a change to Prozinc on Tuesday at the vet and hopefully get into better numbers. For your peace of mind I would ask for a ketone test on Tuesday also. In the meantime keep trying to get a sample, mix some warm water with his food for extra fluids and make sure he is eating plenty. If he starts to exhibit any of the other symptoms I would go to the vet earlier.

Hi Bron,

The strips are in date, the box was sealed when I purchased it so unless there’s a defective lot, which is unlikely, they should be fine. I tested like 5-7 strips, following the instructions and they all came negative. Boyfriend said he couldn’t smell anything fruity in the litter box so it is most likely just my paranoia

As for collecting a sample, he’s quite shy about using the litter box, doesn’t like to be disturbed or watched so I’ll keep trying with the foil for now... I don’t wanna put him off using the litter box and start going outside it

He’s happy, eating (would eat more than he’s allowed), went out on the balcony, he looks ok, no alarm bells. And yes, definitely pushing for Prozinc or maybe Lantus? I think that’s also an option. I’ll be heading on to the dedicated forums later on and read a bit on both.

 

[Georgiana & Perlutz]

Here are some ways to get a urine ketone test:

• put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
• slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
• put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.

Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

Re DKA: if the ketone test strip shows "negative" you're OK. Usually a kitty who's heading for DKA is extremely lethargic, has a poor appetite, may have been vomiting and often has some sort of concurrent infection (eg. UTI or dental) or inflammation (eg. pancreatitis). They're obviously very ill. If your kitty is acting normal do check the urine for ketones as a precaution but odds are DKA isn't in the mix. You can also make a point of adding enough water to all wet food meals to make a soup, as has been suggested.

Hi Kris,

I’ll keep trying with the plastic foil, we have to be succesfull sooner or later! As for the spoon... hmm i might be hurt in the process He’ll never allow me that

He seems fine, happy, not 100% his usual self but who can blame him with his sugar levels all over the show...

I guess I need to relax a bit and stop being paranoid and hope it will all go well at the vet on Tuesday! Hopefully the vet will escape unhurt this time

 

[Diana&Tom]

Hi Georgiana
I saw your post yesterday but don't know much about DKA so kept schtum and hoped others would answer!

It does look to me as if you don't have anything to worry about, and I would have said so yesterday but it's always better to be aware of potential problems rather than pretend they don't exist... so well done you for being on top of the situation. You just never know. You can of course mention your concerns to the vet on Tuesday and see what they have to say.

Good luck with getting a new insulin - you might have to be quite insistent, as many of us have had to be in the past, but that's ok. Our kitties can't talk for themselves so we have to

 

[Georgiana & Perlutz]

Hi Georgiana
I saw your post yesterday but don't know much about DKA so kept schtum and hoped others would answer!

It does look to me as if you don't have anything to worry about, and I would have said so yesterday but it's always better to be aware of potential problems rather than pretend they don't exist... so well done you for being on top of the situation. You just never know. You can of course mention your concerns to the vet on Tuesday and see what they have to say.

Good luck with getting a new insulin - you might have to be quite insistent, as many of us have had to be in the past, but that's ok. Our kitties can't talk for themselves so we have to

Hi Diana,

I know what you mean, sometimes there might be an issue even if it’s not clear at first and it’s best to ask as there are so many experienced people on FDMB. Maybe it seemed like a silly question to ask as there weren’t any other signs, but I think the fact that I sniffed his litter box in the first place tells that I wanna make sure everything’s alright.

I think the vet shouldn’t be too hard to persuade, he did tell me that most of their diabetic cats are on ProZinc and only few on Caninsulin (blind lady’s cat as she can use the pen and few others as it’s cheaper and owners chose it). I just wonder if he’ll give us a prescription rather than buy it from the practice as it can be bought cheaper online. We are in a fortunate position to afford all the vet visits, insulin, food etc. but if we could save some money and keep it in case there’s an emergency, it would be good as we don’t have an insurance.

 

[Diana&Tom]

No such thing as a silly question, Georgiana, really!

As for prescriptions, I think vets should provide you with one if you ask but they may make a charge for doing so... not entirely sure... ask and see what they say - good luck!