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SabsMama

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Hi! I'm Sab's Mama (formally known as Stephanie); have been since he was 8 weeks old. Got him from a girlfriend whose husband wanted to dump the unexpected litter on the side of the road. He's 12.5 years old now. His full name is Sebastian & he's an orange tabby.. I have an older cat, adopted from the local animal shelter 15 years ago. Her name is Mackenzie & she's a calico. Rounding out the family is Bijou the guinea pig, Zena & Zelda the foster gerbils & Crimson the foster rabbit, but I won't bother you with their stories lol

Kenzie's been hyperthyroid for nearly 5 years. This has been a challenge to maintain, as I'm on medical disability. Sab has never been fond of drinking & has had "kidney irregularities" for several years. He is also asthmatic & has a couple bad episodes each springtime. He's been on & off prednisone for a couple years to keep the asthma under control. Currently he takes 1-5mg tab every other day.

Six-8 weeks ago I began to notice that he was becoming aggressive with food, pushing Kenzie out of the way so he could eat hers. He seemed like he'd lost weight but I chose to ignore since I couldn't afford to take him for a check up.

Two weeks ago I became alarmed when I realized that I'd run out of cat litter 2 weeks early. (I buy litter once a month when I get my check.) I knew that Sab had been wanting to drink more often, but again, I'd just thought it was a phase. When I realized how soaked the box had been in order to go through 20 lbs of litter in a 3 week span, I rushed him to the vet. Based on his physical appearance & exam, the vet guessed that it was likely his thyroid.

I volunteer at the local animal shelter where I adopted Mackenzie, and on Monday I worked out a deal to get Sab's blood drawn at a significantly reduced cost. This afternoon the vet left the message that's had me in a panic ever since. Sab's glucose was 640. Thankfully his thyroid & kidney values are just fine! He & I have talked about what to do from here. We're going to cut his pred in half and see how he does asthmatic-wise. For now, I'm waiting on his estimate on costs before deciding what to do.

My mom had a diabetic cat. She couldn't afford treatment and just let nature take its course. He lived 6 months after diagnosis. The first heating spell of the year and it was all over for Boogie. When he died was going through 5 litter boxes a day. This is the background I have on diabetic cats!

So I just wanted to introduce myself & my babies to you. I look forward to learning from those of you who've been this road before. The forums seem overwhelming and challenging; maybe its just from being upset but they don't seem very user friendly to me this evening. Either way, I've got a lot of learning to do in a short period of time!
 

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We can help and your sweet Sab. First, click on the Hometesting picture on the top of this page and you can get a free meter and strips. Hometesting is the secret to this sugar dance. We wouldn't give insulin to our 2 legged children without testing their blood sugar; we do the same for our 4 legged ones.

If you haven't started insulin yet, we would encourage you to start feeding wet low carb. Read this website by a vet: www.catinfo.org. It doesn't have to be expensive. Lots of us feed Fancy Feast or
Friskies. (if you have started insulin, don't change before testing. Cats can go down 100 points with diet change.)

Keep reading. We started a 3 ring binder and copied everything we wanted to remember.

How can we help you maneuver around the forum?
 
Hi Sara! I'm not sure how you can help me navigate the forum yet. I see there's such good information out there & I've tried reading the "newbies" stuff but my mind is not absorbing anything right now. I think I'm going to take a mental vacation for the rest of the evening & attack this fresh in the morning. A binder sounds like a great idea; I have a few empty ones lying around.

The biggest thing that I want to make sure that I do is not make any knee-jerk, rash decisions. I don't plan on changing his food any time soon since I just bought him a new bag of his kidney food.

I talked to my mom since I posted. She said "Sab's got the best mom around because I know you'll go out of your way to take care of him." That's really big of her to say, since her philosophy is still old school: if the animal is sick, euthanize it.

I'll click on that testing kit; thanks for the suggestion!

As a side note: I've been a Type-2 diabetic for 4 years. He's fascinated with my glucometer lol
 
One quick thing that might help. If you start on the Board Index, you can get to this page (Health ) where you should probably post for the time being. To start filling up your binder, go to that Board Index and check out Health links. That one thread has links to hometesting sites and videos, and the food charts. Lots of wonderful info.
 
Hello & welcome!!
You are on the right path, the first being here on FDMB. Everyone is here for the same reason to help their/or someones sugar cat. This is truly a magical place.

The second step would be to change Sab diet. As you already now low carb high protein diet is very important for diabetes. This is also true for FD. As Sue suggested reading www.catinfo.org is really beneficial.

The third step would to start home testing. Even if Sab isn't on insulin right now collecting BG #s could help with how much insulin to start with.

All of this is can be a little overwhelming at times. Don't worry you have us to get you through those times. Ask all the questions you my have & you will receive a answer. It's that easy...PROMISE!

Sab is a beautiful boy. You can do this!

Jenn & Baxter
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
(if you have started insulin, don't change before testing. Cats can go down 100 points with diet change.)
Click to expand...

This is really good advice which I didn't read carefully the first time I saw it. I changed to all wet food and things got exciting very fast!
If you've already started on insulin then you'll need a home testing routine worked out before you change to wet food.
http://gorbzilla.com/diet_tips.htm

Hope this isn't overloading you with information..
~O)

ps: 640!!!! :? wowsers.
 
thanks everyone for the advice, especially about food. We are not on insulin yet.

  • I've already started the search for financial assistance;
    today will come the estimate from the vet;
    today is also a day of study & learning for me!
    tomorrow... not going there yet. I'm forcing myself to take this day by day or I'll just crumple up in a ball b/c its too massive to deal with
 
Welcome Stephanie and Sab to the FDMB family! cat_pet_icon

Yes, it can all be very overwhelming. Learning your cat has diabetes is huge - emotionally as well as financially scary (but it doesn't have to be). Learning to deal with feline diabetes has hurdles all on it's own. The hurdles aren't really as tall as they appear and can be taken one at a time. Check out Diabetic Cats in Need for possible financial help (google it or check the stickies).

I understand the desire to continue feeding Sab the food you just bought. Keep in mind you'll still be going through more litter than normal until his blood glucose goes down (usually from food, insulin, etc.) so you'll still have that cost. And I'm not meaning to sound scary, but you do run the risk of keeping his blood glucose high and possibly creating more problems/costs if he goes DKA. It may be well worth biting the bullet and changing his food sooner rather than later. :-D

Helpful tip: When you go to the grocery store, take Janet and Binky's food list with you. For any foods on the list <10 carbs, jot down the price. If the oz. are different, note that too. When you return home, you can figure out which is the best options for Sab and your budget. (And I do understand tight budgets! I feed my kitties Wal-Mart's Special Kitty at 70 cents a can - 2 cans a day. A bit different than the $16 bag that lasted two months! I had to get creative on cutting costs elsewhere to be able to afford the change.) With you currently buying special food for Sab, the monetary cost may not be as bad as you think. :-D

Home testing is essential to helping Sab, and for your sanity and vet costs. As soon as you get the testing kit, post so everyone can help you with that hurdle. :smile:

Last, pick up some ketone strips from the pharmacy. They aren't expensive. This way you can test Sab's ketones to help keep him safe and hopefully avoid DKA.

Feline diabetes can be managed! And it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg (especially if you are home testing - no vet costs for curves and whatnot). And you have found a wonderful resource to help you every step of the way! :mrgreen:
 
SabsMama said:
thanks everyone for the advice, especially about food. We are not on insulin yet.

  • I've already started the search for financial assistance;
    today will come the estimate from the vet;
    today is also a day of study & learning for me!
    tomorrow... not going there yet. I'm forcing myself to take this day by day or I'll just crumple up in a ball b/c its too massive to deal with
Click to expand...

Please keep in mind that you have no expense yet as you have not started insulin, and a great deal of cats are DIET CONTROLLED, just by switching to low carb wet food, their BG numbers come tumbling down to normal! Any of the dry foods and treats you have ARE contributing to your cat's high BG numbers, so the sooner the dry is replaced with the wet low carb food, the sooner you are going to see much better numbers!

By getting a blood glucose meter from the pharmacy, you can test to see how your cat's doing at home.... there is NO NEED for expensive vet visits because you can handle it all at home. Pick up a meter, some test strips, and lancets, and also ask for some KETOSTIX so you can test the urine for ketones.

Then give it a few days of wet food and testing to see how it's going..... the dry foods can take days to clear the system; the dry foods are horrible for diabetics!

Once you have the testing going and a good diet being eaten, you can then think about what's next.
 
SabsMama said:
I don't plan on changing his food any time soon since I just bought him a new bag of his kidney food.
Click to expand...

So Sab has kidney disease? Are you giving him prescription kidney food? If so, there are commercial alternatives that will be cheaper and better for your cat that are good for both conditions. Also, the prescription kidney food is very low in protein and has been found to cause muscle wasting in cats. Unless your cat is in the end stage of kidney failure, there's no reason to feed this food. I agree 100% with Gayle that it's better to change the diet sooner than later. Some lucky cats do go immediately into remission when the diet is changed, and feeding that food is only going to make things worse. You can return that bag of food (even if it's open) to your vet or pet store for a full refund. Just say your cat stopped eating it--it happens all the time, especially with kidney diets.

You simply need a low carb, low phosphorus canned food, preferably without byproducts (higher quality protein sources are easier on the kidneys). Keeping your cat as hydrated as possible is key to managing the disease, along with low phosphorus foods. Mixing water in with the canned food is one good way to help with hydration.

Here's an updated food list with the values for several premium foods: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8...MzhkYTkxOGM4NThk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50. You're looking for something with less than 10% carbs and less than 250 mg/kcal of phosphorus. The foods I would suggest are Merrick's Before Grain Beef, Merrick's Before Grain Turkey, Merricks' Cowboy Cookout, Merrick's Surf & Turf, Wellness Turkey, EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey, and Blue Wilderness Duck.

If those are out of your price range, the next best thing to feed are the low carb Friskie's Special Diet flavors. These are Turkey & Giblets and Salmon Dinner--make sure they are the ones that say "special diet" on the can, though. PetSmart carries them, and some grocery stores. Here is an updated list of just the phosphorus values for many commercial foods. They can be cross referenced with Binky's chart for carb values if there's something on there that you want to feed. On this chart, you're looking for something that is less than 1% phosphorus (these values are on a dry matter basis, not mg/kcal): http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

My Gabby was on a canned, low phosphorus, low carb, high quality protein diet from the time she was diagnosed with kidney disease until 2 1/2 year later when she passed away (from cancer, unrelated to her kidney disease), and in that time her kidney values remained exactly the same. And she didn't have diabetes--the fact that Sab has diabetes makes the food switch absolutely necessary.

Don't use Binky's list for phosphorus values. Carb values don't change much over the years so it's fine to use those, but phosphorus values can change radically over time, and they are outdated on that list.
 
SabsMama said:
so are you saying that I should change the food BEFORE starting him on insulin?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It's way easier to make the diet change before insulin--changing the food will cause his Blood Glucose to drop dramatically. After you start insulin, that means the amount of insulin he needs will drop as well (which creates the potential for hypoglycemia). A few cats don't even end up needing insulin after the diet change, and the ones that do need insulin need a much smaller dose--which is much safer for your cat. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet don't end up needing much more than 1u.

Continuing to feed a high carb diet and countering it with insulin would be like feeding a diabetic child ice cream and then raising the dose of insulin to counteract it--which of course would be very dangerous for the child (and your cat!). No doctor would ever recommend that--they would tell you to eliminate sugary junk foods before starting insulin.
 
First, welcome!! Second, my cat, Hobbs, has CKD (dx last September) and was dx as diabetic just before Christmas. From September to early/mid January he was on the Hills K/D diet, mostly dry with a bit of wet for dinner. I came here and found out that it might not be the best option for him. The K/D is high in carbs, and the Purina DM which is for diabetes is high in phosphorous which is bad for his kidneys. So I was kind of at a loss as what to do! I got a lot of advice here and ended up switching him completely off of dry all together and onto EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey. Almost immediately his blood sugar started to come down on it's own and he was officially OTJ a week ago today. (Really he hasn't had any insulin since the evening of January 15) Now of course your mileage may vary and every cat is different, but I'm convinced that getting him off of the dry helped him immensely and I suspect that putting him on the K/D made his diabetes (albeit undiagnosed at the time) worse. I will also say that Hobbs' CKD is Stage 1 so he doesn't really need to be on the K/D, cats in later stages of the disease might have other needs.

As for cost, I pay $1.99 for a 13.2 oz can of the EVO at a local boutique pet food store. That's $.15/oz which is cheaper than the K/D Rx food which was about $1.60 for a 5.5 oz can, which is $.29/oz. (Based on what I'm paying, my vet charges about what PetFoodDirect.com charges for the K/D food, so I'm going off of their current price, which is technically on sale, so they might normally be a bit more. Prices vary depending on what part of the country you're in, obviously.)

I don't really consider myself an advice giver here since I feel like I'm new still, but that's Hobbs story!
 
Juanita & Chika (GA) said:
SabsMama said:
As a side note: I've been a Type-2 diabetic for 4 years. He's fascinated with my glucometer lol
Click to expand...

Do you test your own glucose levels?
Click to expand...


Yes, I do my own BS. It's been a struggle for me to stay on my testing on a daily basis, but I always take my medication & have regular A1Cs drawn. My last draw was last week. My A1c has never been higher than 6.9. I've always been better at managing my cats' food intakes than my own.
 
SabsMama - my cat was on Hill's k/d when he was diagnosed. He is now on canned Wellness Turkey and EVO 95% and doing just fine. The low carb, good quality protein, and additional moisture is easier on his kidneys than any dry food. My vet was perfectly happy with the switch. If you bought your latest food at a vet's office, they should take it back even if it is open.
 
Hi, SabsMama (aka Stephanie) -- your beautiful boy looks very much like my Fred! I'm relatively new to this and won't presume to give you much advice yet because most everyone here is far more experienced. Except to say that you've definitely come to the right place. Fred was diagnosed in July 2011, soon after which I registered here but never posted anything until a week ago. The response was overwhelmingly wonderful. Listen to these folks, and take heart.

Maybe I can give you an idea re: finances, though. Diabetes is expensive and money is an issue for me, too. My vet got me to sign up for a GE Money service called "Credit Care." You might want to ask yours about it and see if they accept it. It's not perfect, but it does give you a certain amount of time (6 months, I think) to make payments before they charge interest.

All the very, very best!

Andrea
 
SabsMama said:
Juanita & Chika (GA) said:
SabsMama said:
As a side note: I've been a Type-2 diabetic for 4 years. He's fascinated with my glucometer lol
Click to expand...

Do you test your own glucose levels?
Click to expand...


Yes, I do my own BS. It's been a struggle for me to stay on my testing on a daily basis, but I always take my medication & have regular A1Cs drawn. My last draw was last week. My A1c has never been higher than 6.9. I've always been better at managing my cats' food intakes than my own.
Click to expand...

You could use your own testing supplies to test your kitty! (forgive me if I missed something and you already are testing confused_cat )
 
Haha yeah I've been sharing a meter with Scout and that's caused some confusion when I was entering her numbers in the spreadsheet. Wait, where did that 96 come from? Oh, that was me, LOL.

Lori
 
lol ladies! I will be using my old meter for the cat. It was only 6 mo old when I had to swap insurances & they wouldn't pay for supplies for the new meter so I had to get a new one. If anything, checking his sugar regularly will keep me checking my more regular than I do.

You can meet Sab on his Catster page! http://www.catster.com/cats/347194
 
tomorrow's the big day: Sab & I go to the vet's to learn how to give him injections, test his sugar & all the other stuff that goes with a new diagnosis. nailbite_smile

I'm feeling soooooo overwhelmed with the financial aspect of what's hit my family. Just in cat food alone, that cost has doubled. ohmygod_smile confused_cat

Sab has always been a laid-back cat. I hope he stays that way as I poke & prod him & we get used to this new reality!

I have no idea where to look on the boards to get a feel for what is going on so bear with me as I continue to add to THIS post lol
 
Sorry if I mised it, but have you switched to the wet food yet? I hope you can switch BEFORE starting insulin because you may find out you cat does not need insulin if eating the wet food!

Also, what insulin are you going to be using? has your vet said anything about insulin and dose?
 
Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
Sorry if I mised it, but have you switched to the wet food yet? I hope you can switch BEFORE starting insulin because you may find out you cat does not need insulin if eating the wet food!

Also, what insulin are you going to be using? has your vet said anything about insulin and dose?
Click to expand...

Hello Gayle Shadeo & Oliver!

Yes, we're on wet food; eating Evo 95%
using Lantus Solar...? The Lantus pen, whose name isn't on the tip of my tongue yet. Now that he's on the wet food, we're doing 1u BID.

He didn't notice the injection. He protested the BS, since I'm sure I'm not graceful at it yet lol
 
If you are going on Lantus, and in case people haven't already provided these links,
There are two Langus groups on this forum, who can give you advise based on personal experience of Lantus.

One does what is called "relaxed" dosing
viewforum.php?f=32

The other does what is called "tight regulation", which works for people with time to keep a very close eye on BG via frequent testing.
viewforum.php?f=9

Both of these forums have lots of information in the top few "sticky" posts, stuff to know about Lantus.
Note in particular,
LANTUS & LEVEMIR - INFO, PROPER HANDLING, & STORAGE
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=61796

You will see that people there make daily posts, with BG readings, and they talk to each other about how to interprete BG and translate it into shot strategies.

Well done with getting started on testing sugar. It can be hard to get a routine with your cat, regarding the blood testing (getting blood, unhappy cats, etc)... let us know how you go, there's lots of people here with many tips on how they worked out their grumpy-bloodless-cat problems.

~O)

nat
 
akbahsMum said:
If you are going on Lantus, and in case people haven't already provided these links,
There are two Langus groups on this forum, who can give you advise based on personal experience of Lantus.

One does what is called "relaxed" dosing
viewforum.php?f=32

The other does what is called "tight regulation", which works for people with time to keep a very close eye on BG via frequent testing.
viewforum.php?f=9

Both of these forums have lots of information in the top few "sticky" posts, stuff to know about Lantus.
Note in particular,
LANTUS & LEVEMIR - INFO, PROPER HANDLING, & STORAGE
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=61796

You will see that people there make daily posts, with BG readings, and they talk to each other about how to interprete BG and translate it into shot strategies.

Well done with getting started on testing sugar. It can be hard to get a routine with your cat, regarding the blood testing (getting blood, unhappy cats, etc)... let us know how you go, there's lots of people here with many tips on how they worked out their grumpy-bloodless-cat problems.

~O)

nat
Click to expand...

thank you for the links, Nat. I hadn't seen them before. I will check them out.

I am not that great with message boards; they make me very very crowded & claustrophobic, so it will take me awhile to go through here and glean information. Way too overwhelming for me!
 
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