Diablo 1/15

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Quick question... how do you all do quarter units? I got the U100 syringes with the unit markings, but the conversion chart only shows every two tenths. Should I just stick to .2, .4, .6, etc.?
 
Yeah :)
If he has a similar day tomorrow, do I increase again? How long should I wait between increases/decreases?
 
Normally, we suggest letting a dose settle before increasing or decreasing. There is no "set" time frame, but I would give a dose a minimum of 3 days-- 6 cycles before increasing. Obviously, decreasing if necessary, would need to possibly be done sooner.

You are doing Great! Slow and Steady...... sometimes increases are done at too large of increments and the "right" dose is missed. So, just take the dose up slowly.
 
Another question... FF feeding guidelines say one 3 oz can for every 3.5 pounds. Now, I know diabetic cats aren't going to follow these guidelines, but what if Diablo is only eating two 3 oz cans? Normally during the day he'll act hungry a couple times, and I'll give him half a can or so. Today he hasn't acted hungry at all. So is it okay he eats that little? He is an 11 pound cat.
 
Generally, unregulated diabetics are hungrier than normal, as their bodies aren't processing the food well. As their numbers get lower, they tend to eat less. When Oliver was unregulated, we gave him an extra half can daily. Once he was regulated, we cut back. Niko (my non diabetic) is 11 pounds and eats 2 cans of FF daily and is not very active. More active, acting hungrier, unregulated = more food.

I think the FF guidelines tend to be more generous than needed. Course, selling more cans is good business.....
 
191 is close enough to the 200 that you might have waited the 20 minutes, without feeding and retested. If 200+, then you could have shot - a little less, if you wanted. Expect the amps to be high, after 24 hours without insulin.

This is the hard part, to be a little daring in terms of dosing. Now that you can monitor his numbers and know how to feed him if he drops lower, you can shoot near that 200 mark.

No problem - just a consideration for next time. It's hard, when you first see those lower numbers, to remember that they are what you want. A little scary at first, but they lead to regulation and maybe remission.
 
Yes, right after I posted I remember someone telling me if he was right on the edge to wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest. Unfortunately, I'm working tonight and my husband is in charge. He had already fed him by the time he told me what his PMPS was. Now that he's eaten, should we forget the shot altogether?
 
I wouldn't skip the shot completely. You could shoot a reduced dose like .4 or .6u, otherwise he will be sky high in the morning. A half dose should be safe.

I'm thinking the Friskies raised his bg's and it's wearing off. What treats are you feeding? Carb content wise.
 
They are Catswell, grain free. I believe they're the chicken. I'm not sure of the % exactly, but I saw them on the low-carb treat list somewhere around here.
 
Can you check him midcycle? It's impossible to know how much the food raised the number, so you can't figure you are really shooting a 338. If you can keep an eye on him, maybe .8 - 1 unit? Or lower if you aren't sure.
 
Good Job! I see that you waited and shot the full dose- that is what I would have done also.
 
I ended up doing the full dose. I knew there would be a food spike but I didn't know it would be that much. This is seriously nerve racking. I will test him at +6, even though it will be more like +5 because of the late shot.
 
I would try to get a test also during this cycle, but I think he will be okay.

Low numbers are only scary if you are not testing! You are on top of this.
 
One more thing... It is not unusual for there to big spikes at the end of the cycles, not based on food. Prozinc is a 12 hour insulin, and when it is gone... It is GONE! So, the 338 might not all be a food spike. I have seen 100 point increases in 45 minutes with my Kitty and no food was given..
 
That is definitely reassuring. I'm a natural worrier as it is, so all this doesn't help! :)

I will for sure test midcycle tonight though. Thanks, everyone!
 
Love the press shot this morning!!!! I also like the dose choice. Can you get some tests in?
 
Yes! Planning on +4 and +6 for sure. Those are probably all I'll be able to get.
I didn't feel comfortable doing the 1.2u this morning, so I'm glad to hear I made the right choice going down a little.
 
Looking good. I like the one unit this am also and the dose last night.

One option you have with ProZinc is to shoot a different amount am and pm. So if your pmps is in the 250- 300 range, you might shoot the 1.2. He may be one of those kitties that seem to think adding .2 is too much but leaving it off is not quite enough. (See Cassie's SS. He does that - Bookworm) Another option is to shoot a "fat" one unit on those preshots that are a little higher. Just a "smidge" more than one......

This is a tricky part of the dance. The insulin/food is starting to work and you may have to adjust as his body adjusts. But since you are testing at home and can stay on top of his numbers, you are fine.

Be interested to see his numbers today.
 
Hmmm. Did you get a second test just in case it was a fluke? Let's see what the rest of the day brings. Just one day, just one number, marathon, not a sprint - all those infuriating things we say.....
 
I tried to test again, but he wouldn't let me. He was pretty annoyed with my still inaccurate pokes. Got swatted at even...
 
Wow! But, don't fret this reading. Who knows the reason for the high reading. It could be a positive, it could just be his liver and body panicking from the recent low bgs and dumping. My advice would be, not to overreact to the reading. If it is a liver panic and you react with drastically increasing the dose next cycle, you could compound the issue. Just relax and see what this cycle brings.

Remember- better high for a day than low for a minute!
 
So he's at 318 tonight. Is today considered pretty level? Also, how do you figure the 20%? Do you only figure that from the AMPS or from the previous reading each time?
 
Good Evening.... Yes, I consider today as flat-- after a rise this morning.

Is there any chance of a fur shot this morning?

I have always considered the 20 percent on each test.
 
Could you clarify what you mean by fur shot? I have assumed it means the needle didn't go all the way in, but I want to be 100% sure I understand everything.
When you consider the 20%, are you going off the previous test to the current one to figure it? Does that make sense?
 
A pattern is coming out. That first 162 and coming off dry food took 5 days to clear, blue number took 3 days to clear, another blue number and we have the high flat cycles again so maybe by day 3 he'll come back to better numbers.

I think I'd hold the dose and let the bouncing around settle down and see where you end up.
 
Robin, by hold the dose, do you mean at 1.2 or 1? I did 1.2 tonight since I increased yesterday (with the exception of this morning).
 
Furshot- meaning the insulin didn't go in-- after giving the injection I always rubbed the area to feel if the fur was wet. If it is wet- it indicates a Furshot. This does happen sometimes.

My understanding of the 20 percent variance is- a test of 200, Could actually be 160 or 240. I have done two test on the same drop of blood and seen 10 percent differences. I have never seen 20 percent, personally.
 
I agree with Robin, I would hold the dose. I think this high cycle is a bounce. He is not use to the blue numbers- his body sees them as lows.
 
Ahhh, okay. For some reason I was thinking 20% from one test to the next, not each test itself.

That's what I was thinking with fur shot... It's only happened a handful of times that I can remember but not recently.
 
I would stick with the 1 unit until he evens out. I have had secret thought about a lower dose even and you could go either way with basically the same results. Push him down with a higher dose or let him adjust with a lower dose.

That's the beauty of a peer reviewed board, we all have had different experiences with very different cats. You get the benefit of all of everyones experience and than you get to decide which one fits your Diablo the best. It is starting to look like he is a zoomer like Kim's Ms. Kitty, but he is clearing the bounces within the right time line so you could go either way.
 
Sorry, I wasn't taking into consideration the 20% variance. I know they are close but havn't been doing the math.

I was looking for patterns.
 
Rob, did I explain the 20 percent variance right? I am
Just questioning my explanation!

I agree with what you are seeing- the pattern.
 
I just need to remember it's early in the process for us and it's an ongoing one at that. I keep expecting immediate and perfect results. I've learned I need to practice patience better :)

But I think I will stick with the lower dose for now and let him even himself out. That was a good point about the pattern you saw with the carbs working their way out. I'm glad I have you all checking out his chart! I might be lost otherwise.
 
There are different approaches. I was always cautious with Harley and it worked out for us that way because he was very even keeled, didn't zoom really. Kim had to be much more aggressive with Ms. Kitty because she was a zoomer, she would shoot for the moon within an hour, so she had to go with TID, shooting every 8 hours and Ms. Kitty responded really well to that.

My most dreaded statement here was, it's a Marathon, not a sprint. I wanted immediate results but the truth is that you need to take in all of the information and see what kind of kitty Diablo is and gather information and go from there.
 
My understanding of the 20 percent variance is- a test of 200, Could actually be 160 or 240. I have done two test on the same drop of blood and seen 10 percent differences. I have never seen 20 percent, personally.
Click to expand...

Kim, I saw you ask if this was "right", and yes it was!

A couple of thoughts on the 20% variance thing...

I don't have data to prove this, just a hunch. But I think if the meter is going to be off by up to 20%, I prefer to think that it's going to be off in the same direction when/if it's off. In other words, the variance can be used to rationalize lots of things. Like if you get a 200, a 150 and a 250. You could technically say "well that's pretty flat" when it looks anything but flat. That could be a 200, a 180 and a 200 if you fudge the figures + and -. It could also be a 160/180/300, or a 240/120/300. You can add 20% or subtract 20% however you want, and it will give you three completely different shapes to your curves.

The first one - 200/180/200, looks flat, and looks like the dose should be increased.
The 2nd one - 160/180/300, looks like the insulin wore off early, and the BG just kept rising... make you think the dose needs to be increased.
The 3rd one - 240/120/300 looks like a pretty good curve, and you might just be leaving the dose alone.
But so do the original numbers of 200/150/250.

You can drive yourself insane if you tinker with the numbers, and they'll eventually "fit" what you thought to begin with.
So when I look at numbers and variance, I figure if one was low by 20%, it's more likely that they're all off by about the same amount, and in the same direction.

Also, from what I read on the board, it's generally believed that the lower the reading, the less "off" the meters tend to be. Like they might be off 20% in the higher BG ranges, but the low numbers you get (like under 100) are more likely to be accurate and the degree of variance is less. Again, no data to back that up, but it seems to be what lots of people think.

IMO, the only numbers that you must take at face value are the low numbers. Like maybe 60's or below, and definitely under 50. You have to assume, for safety sake that those numbers are right on the money, because there's not much margin for you to be wrong and keep kitty safe. If you ever see a 40, assume it's real, and that you need to boost them up. You may never "see hypo symptoms" and many cats go down to 30 and you wouldn't believe it from the way they are behaving. But when you get to the point where the symptoms are obvious, like staggering, glazed over eyes, falling over..... at that point it could be too late, and kitty will need immediate vet emergency treatment.

Other than that, the numbers are just numbers, and aren't critically important. It's the patterns that matter, the shapes of the curves over time.

Carl
 
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