Diabetic Doug needs help.

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ghawk0692

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So I'm new here. Doug, our almost 4 yr old LHD tiger cat was just diagnosed with diabetes. We adopted him when he was just a yr old. Some of his history (that we know), he's neutered, has had urinary infection twice since we've had him. The vet put him on a food designed for controlling urinary infections. We were using Purina One from WalMart for the last 2 yrs. Which was working great for keeping the infections under control.
He was really skinny that first year. But after being on the Purina, he has gotten kind of tubby, lol... He currently weighs 17.7 lbs. So, he was given Vetsulin 3 units 2x daily. He did good the first few days of getting his shot, but than started biting and growling. Which IS not like him.. So after our 1st visit to the vet, I went and got some different food for him to see if that would help as well. I started with a hard food called Orijen Six Fish, a natural food that is supposed to be really good for him. So he did great on that food, for like 2 days. But I kept trying to get him to eat it.. So after talking to vet again, my husband and I decided to not give him the insulin for the time being. And just try regulating his food. So after our 2nd trip to the vet in 1 week, they gave me Hill's Prescription Diet m/d for glucose/weight management. He devoured half a can as soon as we got home, now won't touch it (that Monday). It's been a challenge just to get him to eat 1/4 of a can of food. So now I tried a brand called b.f.f (best feline food) which is bpa and grain free. He ate a full 3 oz pouch of it today. I was also given some goats milk to try as well, I haven't yet though.. Being on a budget, spending $300+ on insulin (that he won't let us give him) is not working. I'm hoping that diet will be enough to get him regulated. Also, I haven't tried it, but I've researched that essential oils could help, I've got a call into a vet back in MN that specializes in using it as part of her treatments. Sorry this is so long, but I'm so overwhelmed, at least with my kids they could eventually tell me what was wrong. So any advice, suggestions or whatever would be helpful..
Thanks, Gina
 
So glad to see you made your way to the Health forum, Gina!

Here are some tips that you might want to try to get Doug to eat. Personally, I have had good luck with Fortiflora when I needed to encourage one of my cat's to eat. Warming the food has also helped us in some instances but not all.

I don't have any personal experience with essential oils, so I can't answer that question for you. Hopefully someone who does have experience with them will come along soon to help you.

Shelly
 
Hello Gina and welcome to you and Doug. Has your vet given you a target weight for Doug as start dose for vetsulin is usually based on target rather than actual weight. How was he diagnosed and do you know what tests he has had and the results? You need to find a low carb wet food he will eat and to be consistent with what he is eating and the quantity - I appreciate this could be challenging!

Are you home testing? I would recommend you start this as soon as you can and as he is not on insulin at the moment to periodically check him for ketones - this is done using urine dipsticks. We can talk you through how to test and there is information in the stickies in the fora which is well worth reading. Blood sugar levels are often higher at the vets due to stress and a change to a low carb food will bring the levels down further. Once you have an idea of what his blood sugar levels are doing then you may need to restart the insulin, cats can feel unwell when they first start on vetsulin as it tends to drop the blood sugar quite hard and fast and 3 units is a big starting dose, it is often better to start with a lower dose and then adjust it once you know how the cat responds to insulin.

Any questions - ask away!
 
So glad to see you made your way to the Health forum, Gina!

Here are some tips that you might want to try to get Doug to eat. Personally, I have had good luck with Fortiflora when I needed to encourage one of my cat's to eat. Warming the food has also helped us in some instances but not all.

I don't have any personal experience with essential oils, so I can't answer that question for you. Hopefully someone who does have experience with them will come along soon to help you.

Shelly
I will try warming up his food at his next feeding.. Thank you..
 
Hello Gina and welcome to you and Doug. Has your vet given you a target weight for Doug as start dose for vetsulin is usually based on target rather than actual weight. How was he diagnosed and do you know what tests he has had and the results? You need to find a low carb wet food he will eat and to be consistent with what he is eating and the quantity - I appreciate this could be challenging!

Are you home testing? I would recommend you start this as soon as you can and as he is not on insulin at the moment to periodically check him for ketones - this is done using urine dipsticks. We can talk you through how to test and there is information in the stickies in the fora which is well worth reading. Blood sugar levels are often higher at the vets due to stress and a change to a low carb food will bring the levels down further. Once you have an idea of what his blood sugar levels are doing then you may need to restart the insulin, cats can feel unwell when they first start on vetsulin as it tends to drop the blood sugar quite hard and fast and 3 units is a big starting dose, it is often better to start with a lower dose and then adjust it once you know how the cat responds to insulin.

Any questions - ask away!
Hi Alexi, No the vet didn't give me any thing on target weight. Well I originally thought that he was maybe just depressed since my husband is in Texas working so Doug is without his wrestling buddy.. And I figured that that was why he wasn't eating. so better to be safe than sorry I had them running blood tests, and also check his liver and kidney functions. The 1st vet we saw said his liver and kidneys were fine, but was diabetic, no other info at all. The next visit the vet (different one) said that either his liver or kidneys were elevated. They haven't given me any paperwork at all.. Though she was a little more informative, she did say that eventually we would have to do home testing for him.. So far I have gotten most of my info from the guy at the pet store. He is the one that told which foods would be better for Doug to try. So far (fingers crossed) he is liking the b.f.f brand.
 
they charged you $300 for vetsulin? That shouldn't cost you more than like $50 for a vial. 3u is a high dose to start at. What was his blood glucose level?
 
Welcome to the group. I am also new here. The food thing is a struggle. All 3 of my cats were on purina one urinary trac dry for a long time due to one getting bladder stones repeatedly. My oldest now has diabetes and we have switched her to wet food. The other 2 cats will only eat the dry. She did real good on the purina d/m wet savory selects prescription food and then quit eating. At this point we do vetsulin 2x a day and as long as it's wet food I give her whatever she will eat. Her numbers still aren't regulated but it takes a while we started at 1 unit and I'm now up to 2.5 units. The people here are great and have lots of information to share with you. I have learned so much. I know the glucose testing and shots are hard but it gets better you just have to find a way to do it that works for you. I paid 42 for my vial of vetsulin and with the 100 needles I think the total was $65. I have even taught my vet a few things all from the great people in this forum that deal with this on a daily basis. Just keep trying and keep reading
 
Hi!!
I know you have already spent a lot of cash on supplies but I would consider another more gentle insulin-- we started on vetsulin as well (which is made for dogs) and my boy was miserable--he layed around and was so depressed and cranky.

There is a supply closet in the forum and many people will donate things including insulin.

I also want to stress how important home testing is with any insulin and with vetsulin it can be critical as it usually has a "hard" drop which could result in a hypo-(do you have a hypo kit?)
I don't want to overwhelm you so I will stop here and say take a deep breath it does get easier --soon the routine will be the new normal :bighug:
 
I think I paid $69 for Vetsulin. You can check on Google for some place that might have a better price. It seems that some vets take advantage of their clients.

It is a really good idea to test before feeding and giving insulin. This morning my Callie has a BG of 54. If I hadn't known about it, I could have come home to a dead or dying cat. You can use a meter for humans, The strips cost much less.
 
Before you spend even more money on a different insulin I would start home testing using a cheap human meter - I am not in the US so can't advise on what meter to get, others will though. Since we don't know what his numbers were at the vets we need to get a start point at home to work from as vet stress can raise the glucose levels. Once we have some readings off insulin we can start again with the vetsulin. Was his urine tested for glucose? I would ask for copies of all results from the vets and post them as there are people on the board who can help with interpreting them for you.

Vetsulin is not a bad insulin - I have been using it since April with good results, but you do need to understand how it works. 3 units is a big dose to start with and the aggression may have been due to low glucose levels because he was on too much. Let's pause, take a deep breath and get some figures to work from. Once we have established what is happening we can think about a possible change of insulin

Here is a link to home testing http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
 
Before you spend even more money on a different insulin I would start home testing using a cheap human meter - I am not in the US so can't advise on what meter to get, others will though.
Here is a link to home testing http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/


A good inexpensive meter to use in the US is Walmart Relion brand meters. The Relion Confirm and Micro meters are very good and the strips are inexpensive compared to other brands. Many of us use this meter.
 
So I'm new here. Doug, our almost 4 yr old LHD tiger cat was just diagnosed with diabetes. We adopted him when he was just a yr old. Some of his history (that we know), he's neutered, has had urinary infection twice since we've had him. The vet put him on a food designed for controlling urinary infections. We were using Purina One from WalMart for the last 2 yrs. Which was working great for keeping the infections under control.
He was really skinny that first year. But after being on the Purina, he has gotten kind of tubby, lol... He currently weighs 17.7 lbs. So, he was given Vetsulin 3 units 2x daily. He did good the first few days of getting his shot, but than started biting and growling. Which IS not like him.. So after our 1st visit to the vet, I went and got some different food for him to see if that would help as well. I started with a hard food called Orijen Six Fish, a natural food that is supposed to be really good for him. So he did great on that food, for like 2 days. But I kept trying to get him to eat it.. So after talking to vet again, my husband and I decided to not give him the insulin for the time being. And just try regulating his food. So after our 2nd trip to the vet in 1 week, they gave me Hill's Prescription Diet m/d for glucose/weight management. He devoured half a can as soon as we got home, now won't touch it (that Monday). It's been a challenge just to get him to eat 1/4 of a can of food. So now I tried a brand called b.f.f (best feline food) which is bpa and grain free. He ate a full 3 oz pouch of it today. I was also given some goats milk to try as well, I haven't yet though.. Being on a budget, spending $300+ on insulin (that he won't let us give him) is not working. I'm hoping that diet will be enough to get him regulated. Also, I haven't tried it, but I've researched that essential oils could help, I've got a call into a vet back in MN that specializes in using it as part of her treatments. Sorry this is so long, but I'm so overwhelmed, at least with my kids they could eventually tell me what was wrong. So any advice, suggestions or whatever would be helpful..
Thanks, Gina

Hi Gina (and Doug)-

I'm new to this site as of today, July 31, 2016 and was reading posts here on inexpensive glucose meters, but I ran across your post and wanted to provide my insights. I have a 16 year old Siamese male, neutered cat that was diagnosed with diabetes last year. My Vet, who is part of a large veterinarian practice, is the one who diagnosed him when I brought him in for a check up. He started to slow down a lot and didn't seem to feel well. After some blood work, we found his blood glucose in the 400 range, so he was definitely diabetic. The Vet prescribed Lantus, which is a human insulin, but it has been shown (according to my Vet) in research to be effective with cats. Some cats have even gone into diabetic remission after being on Lantus for awhile according to one study.

It was a difficult learning curve to get myself up to speed with feline diabetes care, as you probably experienced. However, after a period of time, it has become much easier. Lantus insulin can be an expensive insulin, but doing some research it is possible to get the Lantus SoloStar Pens for cheaper in some areas here in the US.

First, you will need to talk with your Vet and tell him/her that you would like to try Lantus insulin instead of the cheaper and harder to manage Vetsulin (as far a blood glucose management). Get the new prescription to take to a local pharmacy in your area. Before you decide on which pharmacy to purchase Lantus from, you will need to go to the website www.GoodRx.com and on this site you can compare costs among your local pharmacies. I noticed, however, that the prices are not exactly accurate, so you will need to make calls to check on current prices. What you want is to find a pharmacy that will be willing to sell you one Lantus SoloStar pen at a time. The reason is that you will need to sign up your cat for the Sanofi Rx Savings Program card, which you can find the information on the discount section of the GoodRx website when you pull up the Lantus information. When I signed up, I just used my cats first name and my last name, his date of birth, my address, etc. It should provide you a .pdf file of the savings card you can print and save on your computer in case you loose the card (you can also enlarge it on your computer so you can read the fine print on the back of the card).

When you go to the pharmacy with the prescription from the Vet, you can tell them it is for your cat and they usually just put your cats first name, then "cat" in quotes, and then your last name for the account name. Everything your provided on the Sanofi Rx Savings Program website, you provide the same information to the Pharmacy so they can set up the account and process the discount for you. They get reimbursed the difference between the $25.00 you pay and their cost per SoloStar pen. Although the savings card is meant for people who are not submitting their prescription to their insurance, their is no mention of pets being excluded in the Terms and Conditions under this savings program. Most pharmacies are not aware that this can be used for pets, so you may need to tell them that it is accepted for pets. The pharmacy will need to load your card ID into their system and may even need to call initially for approval to the number on the savings card (back side fine print). If the pharmacy gets any push back from Sanofi / McKesson (who process payment for Sanofi under this program) when getting initial approval for a cat, then tell them to ask for a supervisor and have them say that the Terms and Conditions of the program do not exclude pets and then the Sanofi / McKesson supervisor can get them the initial approval for your pharmacy to process the discount card (you will see information on the savings card that explains the discount and website for Terms and Conditions).

The first challenge is, however, finding a pharmacy that will sell you one SoloStar pen for each refill instead of the box of five (5) pens (which is typical and wouldn't be as good a discount under this savings card). Under the savings card you then will be able to get a Lantus SoloStar pen for $25.00 each that contains 3ml / 100 units. That essentially means you get 300 units total. It may not be possible to find a local pharmacy to sell you one pen at a time, so check around first. If you use 6 units daily as an example (you give one shot of 3 units in the AM and 12 hours later the second shot of 3 units since this is a long acting insulin), then you will use around 180 units per month, so you can get almost two months out of one pen.

Lantus can last longer than the 30 days that is indicated on their product information if you place the pen in your kitchen refrigerator (do not place in freezer) and this will keep the product lasting longer (in some cases up to 60+ days according to some people and my experience as well, but towards the end of 60 days it seems less effective and thus I had to increase an average shot by 0.5 units and then back down upon using a fresh insulin pen). Also, you don't need to roll this insulin in your hand nor do you need to bring the insulin to room temperature prior to giving the shot to your cat (which could damage the insulin). As well, do not buy the needle cartridges that go with this Lantus pen (unless you don't mind paying more or if you think it will be easier to administer to your cat) as they are more expensive. You can use a standard insulin syringe into the end of the pen to withdrawal the insulin. You will also need your Vet to give you a prescription for these insulin syringes. I was able to get a prescription for the U-100, 29 gauge, 3/10 ml, 1/2" length insulin syringes from my Vet. You need the U-100 syringes in order to get the correct amount per unit into the syringe. Thus, one unit marking on the syringe is one unit of insulin from the Lantus pen.

As you probably already know, if you purchase a sharps container for the used needles, then you can take the full container to your Vet to have them dispose of the needles with their other hazardous waste (check with your Vet first). I know this a lot of information, but Lantus seems to work better for cats than other forms of insulin from my research on-line. Also, with the potential for diabetic remission in cats, I think Lantus is something worth giving a try. Also, I have seen no indication of aggressive behavior with this insulin. In fact, my cat seems happier and seems to have more energy.

Also, as far as diet, I tried the various diabetic foods per my Vet's recommendation and it seemed like it didn't work in the long run to regulate his blood glucose levels (they were all over the place) and he didn't care for the food (tried several - he only liked the dry Hill Prescription Diet m/d). Eventually, what I found to work with my cat was to give him 1/3 of a can of wet Friskies canned food in the AM (the Chicken and Cheese in gravy, Ocean White Fish, Tuna, and Cheese in sauce and some of the other flavors in gravy are a big hit with him; I don't like some of the fish based pates since they tend to have bones in them that I end up trying to take them out before giving him the food; However, they do seem to be good on blood glucose levels resulting in less insulin per shot) and then I give him a little under 1/3 cup of dry food (Pro Plan, Turkey and Rice, indoor cat formula) once in the afternoon and then again in the evening. Of course, he is a larger than average cat (height and length), so this maybe more than a smaller cat needs for a daily feeding. I think Pro Plan makes a version for urinary track health that may work for your cat. This diet along with 2.5 units of insulin, twice a day of Lantus keeps his blood glucose levels in 100 to 150 range (if not a little lower). I have found on-line and my experience as well that there are all kinds of issues with diabetic cat food, which you can find information in on-line reviews (Amazon is a good place to read some reviews).

Initially, with Lantus, my Vet had me start with 1.5 units, twice a day and then we increased by 0.5 units every few days (after I reported to the Vet the glucose levels from at home monitoring) until his blood glucose levels came down to a normal range. At one point, he was on 5 units, twice a day. However, over time as I adjusted his diet away from the diabetic food, he came down to the 2.5 units, twice a day. You will have to see what works for your cat. And also, Lantus shouldn't be increased or decreased more than 1 unit at a time and usually a 0.5 unit change per shot is better (because of somogyi effect) if you see blood glucose levels not responding correctly. As they say, low and slow... I'm not a Vet, so your Vet will probably be more informed. If he / she isn't familiar with Lantus for cats, then you may want to find a Vet who is familiar with Lantus as it is becoming more of a Vet standard in treating diabetic cats. I hope all this information helps.
 
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