Diabetes and IBD

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MichelleN

MichelleN

Member Since 2017
I'm new to this forum and in need of some help.
My cat Frazier (10 years) has been diabetic for the last 3 years, he also got diagnosed with IBD in July 2016. We first tried diet modification and did serum allergy tests with the results showing very few allergies. We tried every novel protein diet out there with little results so we had to do a trial of prednisone. With Fraziers diabetes prednisone isn't the best choice and he's gone into DKA twice. We also tried budenoside with little effect.
My vet suggested a trial of apoquel as there has been some evidence that it's effective for IBD.
Has anyone heard of this or tried this?
I'm also meeting with a veterinarian nutritionist to inquire about a home cooked diet this is the only diet option we haven't tried
Any input would be appreciated!
 
My Neko had diabetes and IBD/lymphoma. Fortunately for her, we didn't need to go the unique protein route. She was on budesonide, which did reduce the thickening of the bowels by about 40%. She couldn't take prednisilone because of her heart condition.

Have you tried a raw food diet? Check out: http://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/probiotics-for-cats---why-and-which-ones.html My kitty #2 (not diabetic) also has IBD but his is more due to food allergies. There are lots of unique proteins options with a raw diet. He is on prednisolone. I am using the Food Fur Life premix - which can be used with either cooked or raw. It is low carb and Neko was eating it for a while too.

We have had IBD kitties here that have had to take prednisolone because that is all that works. In that case, you just increase the insulin dose to compensate. We do have someone using apoquel for skin allergies (originally was on prednisilone). @TanyaG
 
We haven't tried a raw food diet as Frazier is allergic to many antibiotics and my vet is worried about a possible bacterial infection that we are unable to treat.
I'm hoping a home cooked diet provides some relief and hopeful that apoquel will work. We've literally tried everything
 
I start with organic, hormone/antibiotic free meat. That eliminates the problem of antibiotics. You can always start with home cooked with the premix and see how that goes. What is Frazier eating now?
 
Problem with Frazier is that he is VERY picky. He will not eat a pate of any sort. He's tried hills D/d venison and green pea kibble and his IBD was under control but he eventually got sick of it and wouldn't touch it. He's tried every food out there. He's currently eating purina essential care indoor formula and fancy feast grilled turkey. Turkey and Venison were some of the foods that came back negative on his allergy tests. I'm not sure how accurate the serum allergy tests are, as it said he wasn't allergic to fish but yet he eats fish and scratches like crazy.
Currently we are treating the nausea and vomiting with cerenia just to get him to try and eat anything
 
The kibble is very high carb, which won't help his diabetes. The fancy feast grilled selections are also high carb. There are several commercial canned low carb products with unique protein, such as Ziwipeak and Nature's Variety. They come in lamb, rabbit and duck. If he won't eat pate, maybe you can buy meat and boil or roast it, and cut it into chunks and add premix.

It's very hard when you have a cat with nausea who won't eat. If the Cerenia isn't working, you might want to try ondansetron, though it addresses nausea and not so much the vomiting.
 
I can totall sympathise as my cat Tinka has had skin allergies for years, we are still not sure if its food, environment or both. Tinka has been on predisilone off and on for years and I believe its what led to her diabetes diagnosis this past December. When we took her off the pred we saw a huge improvement to her BG! Only problem is her skin got worse. So we temporarily put her back on, then we added in apoqeal then slowing weaning off the pred. To be honest I'm not sure how effective it is yet as she's still on 1/8 steroid. We will know more once she's off the pred. I can keep you posted on that. I haven't noted any side effects though. I dont like drugs in general as they tend to all have a pay off, but at least it doesn't affect the BG. Apparently it suppressed one part of the immune system rather than the whole immune system like the pred.

For us though I think that one of the things that is helping Tinka is the raw food diet. Her weight is improved so much and its so LC its helping her diabetes so much. We are also doing homeopathic remedies to help support her immune system. Suppressing the immune system with drugs is really only a temporary measure because each time we stop the skin itch, hot sport, biting etc just comes back. I do believe it could also be linked to a compromised gut and I believe this si from years of dry food diet - science plan and royal canine, its when all the skin issues started up. I think stress can play a role too. The one vet we working with recommended the raw food diet, I wasn't sure Tinka would like it as she's pretty picky but I'm amazed how much she loves it! Where about are you based? Im in Canada. We have feed both home prepared raw, as well as prepared store bought - we use Spring Meadows - the rabbit and pork she absolutely loves. I'm on the facebook group "Cats completely raw and proud" and that has lots of info on how to balance meals or buy brands that are balanced with meat, organ and bone ratio. I was a little concerned with auto-immune to be dealing with raw but we have all been healthy with no issues since going raw. We are currently trying to find one protein that we can stick with for 8 weeks to do a food elimination trial however she gets bored of food and likes variety so we've not managed that yet. Obviously they need to be eating well to shoot. But if you can try something like that maybe that would help. My vet supports a raw food diet, but is more drug focused rather than finding the root cause. The other vet I started working with is a regular trained vet but more holistic minded and he works online. He is the one that is prescribing the homeopathics, so we will see, if we manage to get her off the drugs if the skin issues resolve or not. He only advocates for a raw food diet as he says many cats and dogs get food allergies because they can't digest the proteins especially if they have gut issues. Cats are literally made to eat raw food, there should be no reason to use antiobiotcs when feeding raw especially if you are buying from a reputable company or making your own.

I know how testing dealing with allergies is, its such a stress not knowing whats wrong. I really hope what ever path you choose that you see improvements soon! Keep in touch with the progress and I'll do the same! All the best :)
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I start with organic, hormone/antibiotic free meat. That eliminates the problem of antibiotics. You can always start with home cooked with the premix and see how that goes. What is Frazier eating now?
Click to expand...
Yes I agree with this too, try and source hormone and antiobiotic free meat. There are many raw food brands that are. Tail blazers in Calgary, Canada stocks many and you can also prepare yourself.
 
TanyaG said:
I can totall sympathise as my cat Tinka has had skin allergies for years, we are still not sure if its food, environment or both. Tinka has been on predisilone off and on for years and I believe its what led to her diabetes diagnosis this past December. When we took her off the pred we saw a huge improvement to her BG! Only problem is her skin got worse. So we temporarily put her back on, then we added in apoqeal then slowing weaning off the pred. To be honest I'm not sure how effective it is yet as she's still on 1/8 steroid. We will know more once she's off the pred. I can keep you posted on that. I haven't noted any side effects though. I dont like drugs in general as they tend to all have a pay off, but at least it doesn't affect the BG. Apparently it suppressed one part of the immune system rather than the whole immune system like the pred.

For us though I think that one of the things that is helping Tinka is the raw food diet. Her weight is improved so much and its so LC its helping her diabetes so much. We are also doing homeopathic remedies to help support her immune system. Suppressing the immune system with drugs is really only a temporary measure because each time we stop the skin itch, hot sport, biting etc just comes back. I do believe it could also be linked to a compromised gut and I believe this si from years of dry food diet - science plan and royal canine, its when all the skin issues started up. I think stress can play a role too. The one vet we working with recommended the raw food diet, I wasn't sure Tinka would like it as she's pretty picky but I'm amazed how much she loves it! Where about are you based? Im in Canada. We have feed both home prepared raw, as well as prepared store bought - we use Spring Meadows - the rabbit and pork she absolutely loves. I'm on the facebook group "Cats completely raw and proud" and that has lots of info on how to balance meals or buy brands that are balanced with meat, organ and bone ratio. I was a little concerned with auto-immune to be dealing with raw but we have all been healthy with no issues since going raw. We are currently trying to find one protein that we can stick with for 8 weeks to do a food elimination trial however she gets bored of food and likes variety so we've not managed that yet. Obviously they need to be eating well to shoot. But if you can try something like that maybe that would help. My vet supports a raw food diet, but is more drug focused rather than finding the root cause. The other vet I started working with is a regular trained vet but more holistic minded and he works online. He is the one that is prescribing the homeopathics, so we will see, if we manage to get her off the drugs if the skin issues resolve or not. He only advocates for a raw food diet as he says many cats and dogs get food allergies because they can't digest the proteins especially if they have gut issues. Cats are literally made to eat raw food, there should be no reason to use antiobiotcs when feeding raw especially if you are buying from a reputable company or making your own.

I know how testing dealing with allergies is, its such a stress not knowing whats wrong. I really hope what ever path you choose that you see improvements soon! Keep in touch with the progress and I'll do the same! All the best :)
Click to expand...
TanyaG said:
I can totall sympathise as my cat Tinka has had skin allergies for years, we are still not sure if its food, environment or both. Tinka has been on predisilone off and on for years and I believe its what led to her diabetes diagnosis this past December. When we took her off the pred we saw a huge improvement to her BG! Only problem is her skin got worse. So we temporarily put her back on, then we added in apoqeal then slowing weaning off the pred. To be honest I'm not sure how effective it is yet as she's still on 1/8 steroid. We will know more once she's off the pred. I can keep you posted on that. I haven't noted any side effects though. I dont like drugs in general as they tend to all have a pay off, but at least it doesn't affect the BG. Apparently it suppressed one part of the immune system rather than the whole immune system like the pred.

For us though I think that one of the things that is helping Tinka is the raw food diet. Her weight is improved so much and its so LC its helping her diabetes so much. We are also doing homeopathic remedies to help support her immune system. Suppressing the immune system with drugs is really only a temporary measure because each time we stop the skin itch, hot sport, biting etc just comes back. I do believe it could also be linked to a compromised gut and I believe this si from years of dry food diet - science plan and royal canine, its when all the skin issues started up. I think stress can play a role too. The one vet we working with recommended the raw food diet, I wasn't sure Tinka would like it as she's pretty picky but I'm amazed how much she loves it! Where about are you based? Im in Canada. We have feed both home prepared raw, as well as prepared store bought - we use Spring Meadows - the rabbit and pork she absolutely loves. I'm on the facebook group "Cats completely raw and proud" and that has lots of info on how to balance meals or buy brands that are balanced with meat, organ and bone ratio. I was a little concerned with auto-immune to be dealing with raw but we have all been healthy with no issues since going raw. We are currently trying to find one protein that we can stick with for 8 weeks to do a food elimination trial however she gets bored of food and likes variety so we've not managed that yet. Obviously they need to be eating well to shoot. But if you can try something like that maybe that would help. My vet supports a raw food diet, but is more drug focused rather than finding the root cause. The other vet I started working with is a regular trained vet but more holistic minded and he works online. He is the one that is prescribing the homeopathics, so we will see, if we manage to get her off the drugs if the skin issues resolve or not. He only advocates for a raw food diet as he says many cats and dogs get food allergies because they can't digest the proteins especially if they have gut issues. Cats are literally made to eat raw food, there should be no reason to use antiobiotcs when feeding raw especially if you are buying from a reputable company or making your own.

I know how testing dealing with allergies is, its such a stress not knowing whats wrong. I really hope what ever path you choose that you see improvements soon! Keep in touch with the progress and I'll do the same! All the best :)
Click to expand...
We are in Saskatoon and have an appointment tomorrow with the vet nutritionist.
The reason my vet doesn't want to go raw with Frazier is that if he were to pick up some sort of bacteria (ie salmonella) he doesn't have a big selection of antibiotics that he isn't allergic too.
Right now I'm just giving him cerenia and letting him eat whatever he wants as he needs his insulin or he will go into DKA again.
We're on Day 2 of apoquel and I've noticed he's a bit more thirsty than his usual. I was also reluctant to try it as there isn't much evidence on it working for cats, but we are at a loss of what to do.
 
Ahh, the "salmonella" fear. Never known a cat on raw to get salmonella poisining - as long as the meat comes from a reputable vendor and care is taken in handling like you would with any raw meat. Some vets like raw, some don't. Feral cats eat raw all the time.

Good luck with the apoquel.
 
The apoquel is a new drug with a novel mode of action that is only approved for dog's skin conditions. I'd be very concerned starting this medication as the side effects are really unknown at this point and it really hasn't been tried and true for IBD especially in cats. Non-steroid treatment of IBD is usually chemo-therapy type drugs that suppress the immune system - methotrexate, cyclosporine, chlorambucil and others. These are more strongly supressors of the immune system, and it's possible that you can use to get the flare under control and switch to something safer like budesonide. I had a long chat with my vet about going the chemotherapy route when I inherited a kitty with severe IBD/possible lymphoma. I wouldn't take the chance of trying a drug that didn't have a lot of time, experience and evidence behind it. Try to find a vet that treats a lot of IBD and get a second opinion.
 
Also - PrednisoLONE not predniSONE is preferred in cats. The PrednisoLONE works better so you need less of it, therefore less side effects. There's some new studies I've been reading that a good percentage of cats with chronic IBD actually have infections of a parasite known as Tritrichomonas. This isn't picked up on a normal parasite screen, you need to have a DNA PCR test done specifically for tritrichomonas. Most vets don't know to test until you ask.
 
Yes Frazier has been one the prednisolone not the prednisone. I've spoken with 4 veterinarians and 2 that specialize in internal medicine and even though there hasn't been a lot of use for apoquel in cats they all feel it's safer to try than to go straight to an immunosuppressant.

That's interesting about the parasite, I will have to talk to my vet about that
 
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